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Traditio wrote:

yellowfever wrote:
First get rid of any armies ability to create units. It's dumb to bring my 2k list and then my opponent creates another 500 points. Second let psykers pick spells. Third no more super heavies in regular 40K

This. Thousand Sons have AP 3 bolters. They are not competitive. There's even lots of stuff that they can't even touch. Anything over AV 10 or T7, for starters.

TS are also overpriced massively, have little mobility, and a generally useless psychic power (iirc)

Traditio wrote:

yellowfever wrote:
First get rid of any armies ability to create units. It's dumb to bring my 2k list and then my opponent creates another 500 points. Second let psykers pick spells. Third no more super heavies in regular 40K

This. Thousand Sons have AP 3 bolters. They are not competitive. There's even lots of stuff that they can't even touch. Anything over AV 10 or T7, for starters.

Yeah, it's ALMOST like there are weapons DESIGNED to take out tanks and high toughness targets
Sorry bud but basic marines with no heavy weapons should NEVER be able to take out very high toughness or tanks.

The problem is that the units the 1K sons are good at killing don't matter anymore. They'll never do enough damage to a gladius formation to even make the marine player think about them.

I'd just like to see a limit on psychic dice per phase, just to speed things up. Warhammer fantasy had a limit of 12 dice and it worked great.

I'm sure there are a lot, but my main one is:

Grav doesn't affect vehicles. Give players an actual choice for whether they take grav or not.

1. Make glancing hits crew shaken again and nothing to do with hull points - remove 'immune to shaken' from everything that isn't a superheavy or doesn't pay out the nose for it
2. Make furious charge +1 I again
3. Make skyfire optional
4. Make double immobilised results turn into weapon destroyed

 Ignatius wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"Making the xeno codexes competitive again and boot out the Cruddace. "

Please tell me how this is an issue.

Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Orks. Really every Xenos book has problems. Although they tend to flick wildly from too strong to not strong enough.

Throw in BA, IG, and GK as well.

If I meant all codexes not just Xenos ones I would have done.

So you purposefully left out those other codexes because you like imbalance... but don't like imbalance for xenos factions. Everyone who plays those other ones should suffer?

No.... Martel was specifically mentioning xenos codexes and asking how that was an issue.

Most people are just listing the things they always moan about in other threads. Lol.

As for what I'd like to see in 8th edition. A simplification of the rules to an extent. I like the current ruleset and it's fun, but the rule book is a mess. It needs a damn good editor and a full rewrite. The rules themselves aren't so bad. There needs to be a few tweaks here and there and some modifications to how GMCs and vehicles work.

As I see it, most of the problems with the game come from woeful Codex writing rather than poor rules. Throw out every single codex and release them all at the start of 8th edition. Make them online and free like AoS. Make sure they are balanced, and update them regularily to account for new models that throw out that balance.

The company seems to be moving towards campaign books anyway, so this seems a goer to me. Put all the formations, special characters, and such in the campaign books, and make sure they are balanced.

This separation of basic unit and army rules from formations and characters would make it easy enough for tournaments and events to ban formations if they wanted to.

A lot of ally shenanigans could be solved by making the Allied organisation chart have a rule that excludes special characters.

More balance, living rulebook

Dark mechanicum which could ally with CSM (renegades we have already) and redo CSM. Tzeentch daemonkin.

 Vaktathi wrote:
First and foremost, the complete dropping of Formations and multi-detachment armies and a return to a single FOC (maybe not necessarily the old 3E-6E one, maybe each army gets their own, but no more 4 detachment armies from 3 different factions).

A 5E style vehicle damage chart and the complete removal of HP's.

Redo wound allocation to be more like 4E to eliminate some of the unnecessary gimmickiness and prevent multi-wound model allocation games.

Complete dropping of Maelstrom as it currently exists.

Allow units to assault from stationary transports.

A more tightened Jink mechanic to make it actually have a meaningful downside for things like Bikes and FMC's and remove some of the sillier parts (e.g. being able to jink in response to overwatch, FMC's jinking while on the ground, impose more of the Smoke Launcher restrictions on Jink)

SH/GC's may comprise no more than 25% of your army.

Drastically reign in psychic powers and things like Invisibility.

Limit D weapons to large Superheavy units or very limited Psychic abilities (e.g. no more 35pt infantry with D guns)

Combine AdMech and Skitarii into one army.
Make the INQ & Knights just an addition to other Imperial armies rather than its own unique faction.
Same for Harlequins and DE/Eldar

Have caps on saves and rerolls, no Invul saves better than 3++, FNP can't be better than 4+, 2+ saves can't be rerolled, etc.

And ideally, have a complete army list within the rulebook itself for each faction, like a 3E Blackbook list, to allow for a complete re-evaluation of broken units and armies (both ends of the spectrum) and just dump everything from the current edition.

Pretty much this.

Rules becoming similar to AoS.

 Draco wrote:
More balance, living rulebook

Dark mechanicum which could ally with CSM (renegades we have already) and redo CSM. Tzeentch daemonkin.

Yeah, if they went to a system where the faction rules were online and updated regularly it would be easy to make it so Mechanicum and Guard can be built as traitor forces. A living rule system could open up so much more options and individuality. They'd no longer have to worry if this book would sell enough to cover the cost of printing.

1: 40% Troops requirement to all lists

2: Ditch Allies

3: Ditch Unbound

4: Allow units to charge after disembarking from a transport that hasn't moved that turn.

5: Psykers can only use their own dice and the dice from the Harness the Warp roll.

6: Simplify the rules. Get rid of unit types that aren't in many dexes. Get rid of redundant unit types (Vehicles and MCs, I'm looking at YOU). Get rid of rules that just give other rules. Combine/pare special rules that do similar things.

Why the troop requirement?

I have a question for people removing allies. What about books like Harlequins? Do they get a HQ, do they get rolled into other books or something else?

 mmzero252 wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus. Obviously this one should have existed a long time ago as well. Basically Cult Mechanicus, Skitarii, and Imperial Knights rolled into one codex.

I think this idea scares me the most, because you're suggesting they remove the most common super heavy ally from the entire Imperium and give it purely to one codex.

I also disagree with lumping knights into one codex with other mechanicus forces, because it is quite clear in the Knight fluff, that some houses ally with the Imperium, and some strictly stuck with the Mechanicus.



For me personally, what I'd like to see:


-A mechanic for shooting into combat.
-5th edition "gets hot" rules for vehicles.... remember when you took an executioner specifically because of how gets hot was rolled, you couldn't hurt yourself?
-I'd like to see something done about D weapons... I get what they are and how they are supposed to be so powerful, but with how often I've seen my knights and Leman Russes and Land Raiders, etc. get vaporized with a single die roll, and no ability to save it at all, is a bit much.
-I'd also like to see some sort of combination of Crack Shot and Gauss for a number of the basic weapons... maybe like, if you shoot at a vehicle with a bolter, roll a 6 to hit, even if the gun cant normally glance/pen the vehicle, on another 6, it does so.

As for codex specific changes I'd like to see:

-Alter the reanimation protocols because right now, it's fething ridiculous. Perhaps make it end of turn or something, because having it as a FNP save means that they generally just don't die.
-Make Wraithknights more fething points... Seriously, having 2 fething ranged D-weapons for less than 300 points is fething ridiculous. Or, make it a fething Super-Heavy Walker, like the Imperial Knights are.
-Fix the CSM codex. Give Typhus EW, take away the unwieldy rule on Manreaper for feths sake... he's had it for 10k years! Personally, I'd like to see CSM perform about on par with an army like Grey Knights... small numbers, but somewhat hard to kill and can do some good damage on their own.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ohh.... and Fleet... I'd change fleet. Nerfing that rule seriously hurt a number of units like gaunts that needed their move through cover, as well as the ability to run and charge on the same turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pm713 wrote:


I have a question for people removing allies. What about books like Harlequins? Do they get a HQ, do they get rolled into other books or something else?

As a Quins player (I only run them standalone), I'd like to see them flesh out the book, and by extension, most of the ally books, to have full HQ, Elite, Troop, FA, HS options.

I think books like Skitarii and Quins are fine how they are, there are ways to play them by themselves, but they are also available as allies. I'd keep that, though as I said, I'd like to see a more fleshed out book with more options for running them alone.

-Get rid of D weapons

-Make certain units vehicles, or buff the heck out of vehicles and walkers

-Gut allies, no more Ravenwing/Librarius/Thunderwolf gak

- Less rules bloat

pm713 wrote:
Why the troop requirement?

I have a question for people removing allies. What about books like Harlequins? Do they get a HQ, do they get rolled into other books or something else?

I think it would make sense to allow armies like Harlequins, Inquisition, Assassins, etc. that are obviously designed to ally to continue to do so. They aren't the problem. The problem is invisible wolfstars allying with invisible cent stars.

pm713 wrote:
Why the troop requirement?

I have a question for people removing allies. What about books like Harlequins? Do they get a HQ, do they get rolled into other books or something else?

really, factions like Harlequins arent really their own armies. Harlequins arent going to get in 40k style battles with Orks or Imperial Guard or a Tyranid invasion without the presence of other Eldar, thats just not something theyd really do. They make more sense as a unique faction in an RPG or skirmish game, but for 40k, they really should just be a bolt-on to CWE/DE and not their own army.

Get rid of super heavies and strength D weapons. That belongs in Apoc games.

Update all of the codicies at once.

I am fine with formations; however, if formations are going to be a thing, give every codex the same opportunity.

Remove unbound.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
First and foremost, the complete dropping of Formations and multi-detachment armies and a return to a single FOC (maybe not necessarily the old 3E-6E one, maybe each army gets their own, but no more 4 detachment armies from 3 different factions).

A 5E style vehicle damage chart and the complete removal of HP's.

Redo wound allocation to be more like 4E to eliminate some of the unnecessary gimmickiness and prevent multi-wound model allocation games.

Complete dropping of Maelstrom as it currently exists.

Allow units to assault from stationary transports.

A more tightened Jink mechanic to make it actually have a meaningful downside for things like Bikes and FMC's and remove some of the sillier parts (e.g. being able to jink in response to overwatch, FMC's jinking while on the ground, impose more of the Smoke Launcher restrictions on Jink)

SH/GC's may comprise no more than 25% of your army.

Drastically reign in psychic powers and things like Invisibility.

Limit D weapons to large Superheavy units or very limited Psychic abilities (e.g. no more 35pt infantry with D guns)

Combine AdMech and Skitarii into one army.
Make the INQ & Knights just an addition to other Imperial armies rather than its own unique faction.
Same for Harlequins and DE/Eldar

Have caps on saves and rerolls, no Invul saves better than 3++, FNP can't be better than 4+, 2+ saves can't be rerolled, etc.

And ideally, have a complete army list within the rulebook itself for each faction, like a 3E Blackbook list, to allow for a complete re-evaluation of broken units and armies (both ends of the spectrum) and just dump everything from the current edition.

I agree with most of this. I prefer Maelstrom; however, if the rest of this is done, I'd accept it.

 kronk wrote:
Get rid of super heavies and strength D weapons. That belongs in Apoc games.

Update all of the codicies at once.

I am fine with formations; however, if formations are going to be a thing, give every codex the same opportunity.

Remove unbound.

I keep seeing a lot of people rallying against an Unbound and it just makes me laugh. Could someone abuse it? Sure, but with the existence of Formations and super friends, I think Unbound is actually worse than what you could make with a Decurion, Gladius, or War Convocation.

I would want to see a well planned, thought-through ruleset that will be kept as the basis for ALL codices to be written against.

If modifications are made, I would like to see free updates for owners of the E-Book versions and Trade-ins (book swaps) for those with the actual book version with maybe a charge for the literal book-making cost.


Other, far newer companies have managed this, GW surely can.

 kronk wrote:

I agree with most of this. I prefer Maelstrom; however, if the rest of this is done, I'd accept it.

I wouldnt mind a new mission system to replace all the existing missions, the current Maelstrom incarnation just has too much randomness, variability, nonsensical objectives, and record keeping involved, at least to me

Major redesign to big models, i.e- monstrous creatures and vehicles, to properly balance them against each other. I'd like to see weapon abilities be less tied to vehicle armour, e.g- Melta weapons should wound MC's automatically at half range, armour bane weapons should probably inflict multiple wounds and such, as anything that can bring down a tank should hurt a big monster pretty badly too, whereas right now we have a lot of dedicated anti-tank weapons that are of little use against MCs (don't remove enough Wounds) because the rules are too badly suited to them.

Either that or just ditch the custom vehicle armour rules and use Toughness and Wounds, with a heap of add on rules to optionally change movement, give immunity to poison and so-on. Many of these may make sense on Monstrous Creatures too so it will make sense to create a common pool of smaller rules and just dish them out as appropriate. Vehicles could still have different Toughness and armour saves per facing for the tactical advantage of hitting a side/rear facing.

But yeah, vehicles need redesigned and improved badly.

Grav weapons need to be redesigned to actually fill a niche rather than just being some of the best weapons in the game. Destroyer weapons need to be less random, as right now they tend towards game ruining rather than useful but fun. Basically GW needs to get away from their default "let's just add a random table" setting, as it's almost always the wrong solution to a problem.

Bikes need to be balanced better, but this is partly a codex problem; they're just too powerful and easy to spam in many lists, giving us even less reason to take regular troop squads.

Infantry needs to get better in general, and melee needs to be un-nerfed; I have no idea why it was in the first place (it's not like combat was super overpowered before 6th yet GW kept beating on it for no reason), this could go a long way toward fixing many currently useless units.

Some weapons need tweaking; I'd like to Storm Bolters become Assault 2/Heavy 3 (or make Salvo full range so they can be Salvo 2/3, but only after fixing Graviton first), Heavy Bolters could do with something to increase their value again, but it needs to avoid encroaching on Assault Cannons.


This is just the first few things that spring to mind, there's loads more

I like the allies rules. You can create fluffy lists with it. The problem is always that ten percent that wants to put a riptide wing with daemons. Or whatever the combos are now. They need to tighten up the rules.

 Vaktathi wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Why the troop requirement?

I have a question for people removing allies. What about books like Harlequins? Do they get a HQ, do they get rolled into other books or something else?

really, factions like Harlequins arent really their own armies. Harlequins arent going to get in 40k style battles with Orks or Imperial Guard or a Tyranid invasion without the presence of other Eldar, thats just not something theyd really do. They make more sense as a unique faction in an RPG or skirmish game, but for 40k, they really should just be a bolt-on to CWE/DE and not their own army.

They do seeing as the Codex specifically has mentions of battles against both Guard and Orks.

It seems like over this latest edition there has been a paradigm shift from powerful 1 shot weapons to mid range high rate of fire weapons and I'd like to see the point cost reflect this. Maybe a las cannon should cost the same as an auto cannon or maybe even be cheaper!

 Draco wrote:
...living rulebook

This is my biggest hope: The death of the BRB and online, living rules. This is coming from someone who is a rulebook collector.

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:

2: Ditch Allies

Solo 2016!

There are tons of things I want,

then there are also tons to things I'm not going to get,

It so happens they are the same list.



I doubt a new CEO will change much when it comes to game design.

pm713 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Why the troop requirement?

I have a question for people removing allies. What about books like Harlequins? Do they get a HQ, do they get rolled into other books or something else?

really, factions like Harlequins arent really their own armies. Harlequins arent going to get in 40k style battles with Orks or Imperial Guard or a Tyranid invasion without the presence of other Eldar, thats just not something theyd really do. They make more sense as a unique faction in an RPG or skirmish game, but for 40k, they really should just be a bolt-on to CWE/DE and not their own army.

They do seeing as the Codex specifically has mentions of battles against both Guard and Orks.

I dont have the book one me, are these pitched open battles or like small commando raids, and are they done without any other Eldar present? It would appear to be rather nonsensical for a Harlequin Troupe to engage something like a mechanized/armored IG column in a pitched firefight or a Green Tide is a direct mass melee.