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 Gamgee wrote:

 Gobbla wrote:

DorianGray wrote:
First off some Armies do completely get neglected. Orks almost literally exist as punching bags for other Armies -probably space marines.

Literally try to win a game as Orks against a SM army say Battle Company. Dark Eldar and Astra Militarium are jokes as well.

Also do people really genuinely like Space Marines over everything else or is it because of GW's propaganda and favoritism towards them? If they pushed say Skitaari or Dark Eldar as much as Space Marines who is to say they wouldn't be as popular?

Orks are not neglected. They have everything from troops to fliers to super-heavies. Under-powered? Probably. But, not neglected.

People really genuinely like Space Marines. Over everything else. Even people who don't like them, secretly like them. GW REALLY likes them. Their own fully developed, fully supported Intellectual Property that makes tons of money. Still very cool after 30 years. Still fun to build and paint. Try to imagine 40K without Space Marines. Right, you can't. So, give up trying before you hurt yourself. Forget I even suggested it! Now, try imagining 40K without Dark Eldar. In fact, try to imagine the last time you even saw a Dark Eldar army. Try to imagine explaining how to even spell "Skitaari." I know, right! It can't be done.

If GW can make a whole other game called 30K that is just Space Marines, it ain't because they forced customers to like Space Marines.

The gorkanought and morkanought are not super heavies.

Stompas of all variations are...

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Gobbla wrote:

DorianGray wrote:
First off some Armies do completely get neglected. Orks almost literally exist as punching bags for other Armies -probably space marines.

Literally try to win a game as Orks against a SM army say Battle Company. Dark Eldar and Astra Militarium are jokes as well.

Also do people really genuinely like Space Marines over everything else or is it because of GW's propaganda and favoritism towards them? If they pushed say Skitaari or Dark Eldar as much as Space Marines who is to say they wouldn't be as popular?

Orks are not neglected. They have everything from troops to fliers to super-heavies. Under-powered? Probably. But, not neglected.

People really genuinely like Space Marines. Over everything else. Even people who don't like them, secretly like them. GW REALLY likes them. Their own fully developed, fully supported Intellectual Property that makes tons of money. Still very cool after 30 years. Still fun to build and paint. Try to imagine 40K without Space Marines. Right, you can't. So, give up trying before you hurt yourself. Forget I even suggested it! Now, try imagining 40K without Dark Eldar. In fact, try to imagine the last time you even saw a Dark Eldar army. Try to imagine explaining how to even spell "Skitaari." I know, right! It can't be done.

If GW can make a whole other game called 30K that is just Space Marines, it ain't because they forced customers to like Space Marines.

The gorkanought and morkanought are not super heavies.

Stompas of all variations are...

True enough, but their codex ones are not great at all.

 TwilightFox wrote:
At our local shop we seem to have a fair mix of armies. There are a couple Nid players, a couple CSMs, a guy who runs Guard, a Necron fanatic, and at least one Eldar and one Tau. As for Loyalist Marines: I know of a couple Space Wolves, a Blood Angel, a Dark Angel or two (myself being one of them), and one plain Space Marine player. I'd have to estimate the ratio of Marines to Xeno/Chaos is about 50/50.

In my group it's 0/100. My partner's into Necrons, my roommate collects Tau and Chaos, and I'm thinking of getting back into 40k with a small FSE list.

Do Chaos Marines count? My roommate's been looking at those.

I've considered collecting marines to use as the frightening villains they are -- preferably all-beaky Raven Guard -- but the number of 40k players who unironically see them as heroes (and are IRL bigoted towards "xenos" players) kind of skeeves me out and puts me off that idea.

Isn't the Stompa a super-heavy? And, aren't there rules for Gargants, even if no models. Plus, do Space Marines have super heavies? I don't really know.

 jah-joshua wrote:
i voted for "just the right amount"...
i have always been a fan of Marines, first and foremost, since Rogue Trader was a new release...
i bought Orks, Eldar, Guard, and 'Nids when they were all in their first incarnations, but none of them captured my imagination, or made me want to paint, as much as Marines...

nowadays, i buy the occasional Ork, 'Nids, maybe an Eldar or Dark Eldar model, some Guard, but rarely paint one...
i buy loads of Tau and Mechanicum, and enjoy painting them, but not nearly as much as Marines...

the variety of cool background and art for Marines means that i could just paint Marines for the rest of my life, and still not cover all of the ideas that are floating around in my head...
i could probably say the same for a lot of the other factions, if they inspired me as much as Marines, but they don't...

the armor is a constant challenge to paint better, and the different ways that they can be approached is pretty much limitless...
bolters, chainswords, jump packs, assault cannons, heavy flamers, combi-weapons, and more, all inspire me way more than shuriken catapults or fleshborers...

Tau and Ad-Mech are an easy second, with Orks third, and the rest a distant fourth as far as getting my attention...

in the Second Edition days of 'Ere We Go and Freebooterz there was some great art and fluff, but it still couldn't get me as fired up as Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine, or the original Space Wolves Codex did...

i can honestly say that i love pretty much everything about the 40K universe, but Marines have always been my favorite...
30 years on, and the models are better than ever, so i could not be happier

cheers
jah

Dude you're a total fanboy. When viewed objectively there are far too many Space Marines (fanboys). Most games are Space Marines vs Space Marines. GW made 30k where literally all the factions are SPACE MARINES. It is harmful for the hobby and annoying for the Space Marine player themselves that they can't find non-power armour opponents.

With some races in the gutter like Orks and Dark Eldar with their god-awful rules, there's yet another Space Marine Codex (deathwatch) coming out bringing up the total of SM codexes to... how many now?

Honestly why can't the IG get a different Codex for Cadians, Vostroyans, Catachans... etc? Because that is essentially what the Space Marine player get now. They get one for every single chapter even when Guard are much more varied in culture and fighting and outnumbered Space Marines 1 million to 1, do 100% more of the fighting across the entire imperium, and are fundamentally more important to the survival of the IoM than sometime rebellious Space Marines.

There's wolf space Marines, Vampire Space Marines, Monk space Marines, Robot Space Marines, magic super Space marines, Deutschritter Space Marines, Smurf Space Marines, Evil Space Marines, Egypt Space Marines, smelling space Marines... you could continue all day.
I don't think it's a problem that there are all those kinds of space Marines, the sad thing is that other factions don't have this kind of variety and never will get it. If we had rules for all 8 factions of Orks, or every Eldar craftworld the amount of Space Marines wasn't that obvious. You could reduce the imperium to: Male Space Marines, Female Space Marines, Imperial Guard and mechanicum and with that humans would still have more different armies than any Xenos faction right now.
Nevertheless I wouldn't want to do away with any army or subfaction. CSM lost half of their Legions 3 editions ago and people are still crying about that .

 Gamgee wrote:
The gorkanought and morkanought are not super heavies.

Stompa that keeps regenerating itself is not super heavy? Could swear it read super heavy last time I opened up my codex. Albeit it's been a while since I threw 7th ed basically to trashbin in favour of superior rules but I'm FAIRLY sure it's super heavy.

OP :
I agree. I find far too many marines kicking about. I understand fully that 40k is marketed with them at the center as the heroes of the story, and lets face it, they are pretty badass in a lot of ways.

However, this does as mentioned leave a lot to be desired in terms of match up. I personally hate playing Marine on marine ( Unless its CSM and loyalist , that's still different and very thematic ) .

This lack of diversity even got under my skin enough at my local store that I even went so far as to purposely research and try to get into alternative Xenos races and start armies of them, JUST so there would be some variety. As a result, I have had at some point or another to my detriment, every army in 40k bar Sisters.

I fully understand that collecting other armies you aren't as nuts about and forcing the play is stupid, but that's honestly the point I was driven to just to see some variety in the local tournaments which were about 70-80% marine and imperial guard dominated, meaning i could go entire tournaments playing no one but other marines. Got old real fast.

Has anyone ever noticed that in the new releases section of the GW store, there is guaranteed to be at least one Space Marine item?

New Tau/Eldar/Daemons/Nids codex? Space Marine hardcounter / box set release.

New edition? SM Starter box.

C:SM release? At least twice as much stuff as a xenos release.

National Holiday? Themed Space Marine box set.

New game? Space Marine compatible.

DorianGray wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:
i voted for "just the right amount"...
i have always been a fan of Marines, first and foremost, since Rogue Trader was a new release...
i bought Orks, Eldar, Guard, and 'Nids when they were all in their first incarnations, but none of them captured my imagination, or made me want to paint, as much as Marines...

nowadays, i buy the occasional Ork, 'Nids, maybe an Eldar or Dark Eldar model, some Guard, but rarely paint one...
i buy loads of Tau and Mechanicum, and enjoy painting them, but not nearly as much as Marines...

the variety of cool background and art for Marines means that i could just paint Marines for the rest of my life, and still not cover all of the ideas that are floating around in my head...
i could probably say the same for a lot of the other factions, if they inspired me as much as Marines, but they don't...

the armor is a constant challenge to paint better, and the different ways that they can be approached is pretty much limitless...
bolters, chainswords, jump packs, assault cannons, heavy flamers, combi-weapons, and more, all inspire me way more than shuriken catapults or fleshborers...

Tau and Ad-Mech are an easy second, with Orks third, and the rest a distant fourth as far as getting my attention...

in the Second Edition days of 'Ere We Go and Freebooterz there was some great art and fluff, but it still couldn't get me as fired up as Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine, or the original Space Wolves Codex did...

i can honestly say that i love pretty much everything about the 40K universe, but Marines have always been my favorite...
30 years on, and the models are better than ever, so i could not be happier

cheers
jah

Dude you're a total fanboy. When viewed objectively there are far too many Space Marines (fanboys). Most games are Space Marines vs Space Marines. GW made 30k where literally all the factions are SPACE MARINES. It is harmful for the hobby and annoying for the Space Marine player themselves that they can't find non-power armour opponents.

With some races in the gutter like Orks and Dark Eldar with their god-awful rules, there's yet another Space Marine Codex (deathwatch) coming out bringing up the total of SM codexes to... how many now?

Honestly why can't the IG get a different Codex for Cadians, Vostroyans, Catachans... etc? Because that is essentially what the Space Marine player get now. They get one for every single chapter even when Guard are much more varied in culture and fighting and outnumbered Space Marines 1 million to 1, do 100% more of the fighting across the entire imperium, and are fundamentally more important to the survival of the IoM than sometime rebellious Space Marines.

seriously, that's your level of discourse, name calling???
if you are going to address me, have some respect and common decency...

don't act like i am responsible for GW's focus on Marines...
i buy every Codex for every army, and always have...
i bought the Catachan book, and never wanted to see it get dropped...
i collected Tallarn, Catachans, Steel Legion, and plenty more Guard models...

i buy all the Xenos books, and whichever models catch my fancy...
i don't want anyone to have bad rules, or a lack of models, so i do my part to support all factions...

i don't play, so that Marine on Marine action is not something that i promote...
outside of 30K, Imperial factions fighting each other doesn't even make sense fluff-wise, unless you are playing Dark Mechanicum or Renegade Guard...

i don't know what your problem is, but you don't know what you are talking about, calling me a Fanboy...
my most recent purchases include the Guard Tech-Priest, Ad-Mech Dominus, Eversor and Vindicare Assassins, Tau Commander and Ethereal box, an AoS Orc Megaboss, and Silver Tower...
not to mention all of the non-GW minis i have purchased over the past few months...

if i really were a Fanboy, i wouldn't have passed on all of the Finecast Marine releases, but i did, rather than support a material that i don't want to see GW continue using...
it sucks not to own those badass Captains, or Arjac, but i'm no hypocrite, so i don't buy crappy material just because i prefer painting Marines...
there is not a single Finecast mini in my collection, which means i miss out on a lot of cool sculpts :(

i would love to see every army get equal treatment...
i would also love to see rules that make everybody happy...
i would love to get a commission to paint a Death Jester, or a Shadowseer...
i would love to see a return of the Ork Clans as a big deal...
unfortunately, i'm not in charge of GW...
i'd sure do a lot of things differently if i were

cheers
jah

Well, do we have a Marine infestation at my club?
every player there baring myself, another guard player, 2 Tau players and an Eldar player plays Marines. And this is a club with close to a hundred members, almost all of whom play 40K.
So yes, there are far too many Marine players, although this is, I feel, a result of GW both pushing Marines and constantly promoting them above all else, and the design team basically giving marines EVERYTHING. All te fancy new toys? Space Marines. Tactical flexibility? Marines. Want to run mechanised infantry? Marines. Want to drop pod in? Marines. Want psykers? Marines. Want to out-tank a Guard player? marines.

Seriously GW, stop it. We know that you fan-[word for self pleasuring] over Marines but there is no need to take your fetish and force it down our throats until we choke. What about the other armies? Right now everything the guard do - baring the most ineffective tactic of infantry horde - can be done by the Marines but better. GW need to ake up and remember that other Imperial armies do exist beyond 'flavour of marine X'.

One side-effect of too many marines is everyone designs their armies around killing space marines /MEQs so some weapon options are completely ignored or never used.

This decreases variety in the game. Bad

The problem is not that too many people play space marines.

The problem is that absent a couple instances of other faction love (eeeeveryone loves to point out the last two Eldar codeces, as if they have gotten more than the love of just one balance-blind rules writer for the last couple years) almost everything GW puts out is aimed at making space marines as powerful and fluff-accurate as possible.

Space Marines even now have their own game purely as a "no other factions allowed" clubhouse, and the SM playerbase of that game STILL complains ceaselessly about the TWO other non-marine factions included not being "fair" because they don't wear power armored undies.

When 75% of the effort put into the game goes towards one faction, 75% of the playerbase will only care about that faction. And 40ks rules, fluff, novels, games and video game tie-ins definitely reflect that with regard to the ol' marty stues.

Here is the thing, it seems like people like to be upset about things in this hobby. As a new player, I've learned no matter what army you choose, some people will have an issue with it. Too many people play space marines? I constantly hear from people how over powered the Necrons, Tau, and Eldar are, then I hear from the same people that the Orks, and Dark Eldar are massively under powered. For me, it seems like SM is the simplest army to understand for new players. They have guns, tanks, are easy to paint, have a niche(werewolves, vampires, repressed secretive Knights), and have a middle ground for model count. As a new player, big deterrent for me to play Eldar is learning all the stuff for them, they're super specialized and to me, seem like a second army to collect. It's only a matter of time before people get annoyed and don't want people playing AdMech/Skitaari because people are already starting in on the War Convocation. So, do a lot of people play SM? Yes, but from what I've seen they have second armies of another kind. The Space Marines are the "heroes", using the term loosely, of the story, and they offer a great deal of player expression for new players that maybe people more experienced in lore might find in the Tau or Necrons.

 master of ordinance wrote:
Well, do we have a Marine infestation at my club?
every player there baring myself, another guard player, 2 Tau players and an Eldar player plays Marines. And this is a club with close to a hundred members, almost all of whom play 40K.
So yes, there are far too many Marine players, although this is, I feel, a result of GW both pushing Marines and constantly promoting them above all else, and the design team basically giving marines EVERYTHING. All te fancy new toys? Space Marines. Tactical flexibility? Marines. Want to run mechanised infantry? Marines. Want to drop pod in? Marines. Want psykers? Marines. Want to out-tank a Guard player? marines.

Seriously GW, stop it. We know that you fan-[word for self pleasuring] over Marines but there is no need to take your fetish and force it down our throats until we choke. What about the other armies? Right now everything the guard do - baring the most ineffective tactic of infantry horde - can be done by the Marines but better. GW need to ake up and remember that other Imperial armies do exist beyond 'flavour of marine X'.

GW sells what people buy. Especially in the age when their profits are not skyrocketing up(less than several % profit increases is bad in western economy) they cannot AFFORD to release anything but what sells for sure. They sure as hell cannot afford to not release more of print money buttons...

Yea, but people buy into marines because they are the most supported thing in GW. It's circular.

At this point, GW may actually do better by only selling SM stuff, and abandoning their Xenos lines.

 Selym wrote:
Yea, but people buy into marines because they are the most supported thing in GW. It's circular.

At this point, GW may actually do better by only selling SM stuff, and abandoning their Xenos lines.

Is it really that bad? I mean, c'mon. There are rumors GW is soon coming out with TWO NEW factions (well, one is re-newed) .

Genestealer Cult gets a re-birth after 18 years of hibernation. That's XENOS, baby! See, NO Space Marines.

And, Deathwatch, which is most certainly not...uh? What! MORE Space Marines? Are you sure?

OK, maybe you're on to something.

 Selym wrote:
Yea, but people buy into marines because they are the most supported thing in GW. It's circular.

At this point, GW may actually do better by only selling SM stuff, and abandoning their Xenos lines.

Forge World has certainly made a mint by doing that for the most part.

 HCMistborn wrote:
Here is the thing, it seems like people like to be upset about things in this hobby. As a new player, I've learned no matter what army you choose, some people will have an issue with it. Too many people play space marines? I constantly hear from people how over powered the Necrons, Tau, and Eldar are, then I hear from the same people that the Orks, and Dark Eldar are massively under powered. For me, it seems like SM is the simplest army to understand for new players. They have guns, tanks, are easy to paint, have a niche(werewolves, vampires, repressed secretive Knights), and have a middle ground for model count. As a new player, big deterrent for me to play Eldar is learning all the stuff for them, they're super specialized and to me, seem like a second army to collect. It's only a matter of time before people get annoyed and don't want people playing AdMech/Skitaari because people are already starting in on the War Convocation. So, do a lot of people play SM? Yes, but from what I've seen they have second armies of another kind. The Space Marines are the "heroes", using the term loosely, of the story, and they offer a great deal of player expression for new players that maybe people more experienced in lore might find in the Tau or Necrons.

Learning Eldar was much easier for me than learning Space Marines. Starting out, I had no idea what weapons were for what purpose, and there are so many options for SM units I felt overwhelmed. Then I grab some Eldar, they have options yeah, but I could understand the upgrades, they were clear to me. For the most part, I didn't need to worry about upgrades anyway. Mostly was foot slogging Dire Avengers, other aspect warriors and psykers my first several games with Eldar.

Space Marines are going to be my 3rd army, now that I have a much better understanding of what's going on in game. And I'm kind of annoyed at myself for starting an SM army, just because of how popular they are, but I got into Raven Guard and now I can't shake it.

I have no issue with Space Marines being the bread and butter of GW sales. While I don't see myself returning to modern 40K anytime soon - the overwhelming (nearly comical) number of Imperial books/codices/armies is definitely a huge turn off.

I'm sure the justification is more sales, but GW could do just as well with fewer, better thought out books/codices. It's an insult to gamers that you need to buy an entirely separate book for each branch of an army. That...my friends, is a simple money grab.

In my previous group I was the only (!!) non-Marine player with my Guard. I started to hate Marines and I vowed to myself that I'll never play them.
In my current group the Marines are still in majority, but there also others so it is not that bad.

And to the topic, yes, I think that GW is being Marine-centric. Still I understand that Marines are easiest army to learn, which means that newbies are more likely to pick up them over the others and they are also making up the absolute majority of sales, but that doesn't mean that other factions have to be neglected and looked over like they are.
Just look at the rules updates and new model releases. Half of it are for Marines and the rest for the remaining factions.

the_scotsman wrote:


Space Marines even now have their own game purely as a "no other factions allowed" clubhouse, and the SM playerbase of that game STILL complains ceaselessly about the TWO other non-marine factions included not being "fair" because they don't wear power armored undies.

Is it a "no other factions allowed" game or are there other races? Make your mind up.

I've not seen them complain about anything that isn't a phosphex mortar which is pretty cheesy.

the_scotsman wrote:
Space Marines even now have their own game purely as a "no other factions allowed" clubhouse, and the SM playerbase of that game STILL complains ceaselessly about the TWO other non-marine factions included not being "fair" because they don't wear power armored undies.

I'm not sure who you've been speaking to, but I've never met a 30k player who thinks 30k should ONLY be Marine on Marine action. Solar Auxilla, Mechanicus, and Militia are all cool and valued parts of 30k, and the ready access of all factions to roughly the same resources makes the game far more balanced.
As a Marine player of 30k, I've never found anything the Solar Auxilla or Militia can use that is unfair, and whilst I'll admit that Mechanium automata are certainly very powerful to an unprepared opponent, they are by no means unfair at all.
In fact, the only thing I've found that tickled me the wrong way was actually a Marine thing (the instant killing hand flamers).

Next time, when you generalise, make sure something backs it up.

 Hawky wrote:
I understand that Marines are easiest army to learn

No, they aren't. They have the most models, the most psychic powers, and a ton of customization options, and the stats for most of their weapons are in a separate book from their codex. Just as a point of reference, in the premade Warzone Damocles missions, I played Shadow Force Solaq ineffectively because I couldn't grasp everything all at once. My partner observed, unprompted, that they have way too many special rules.

The easiest faction to start with, bar none, is Necrons. They have no psychic powers, a low model count, fewer customization options, and extremely survivable troops, and their basic weapons are good against both tanks and infantry. They're as forgiving to paint as they are to field in a game ... and as my partner observed, "everything they have is [bullgak]." As in OP.

I have limited experience with other factions, but I'd tentatively place AdMech and Tau as the second and third easiest. Both are tough and shooty and hard to go wrong with, and have fewer models and no psychic powers. The most complicated things for each are their force-multiplier techs, like luminagen, markerlights, and Doctrina Imperatives.

Remember how excited everyone was when GW finally made AdMech models and a Harlequin faction? The 40k galaxy is so big and wondrous, and yet it seems like they're squandering all their design space and weekly releases on Space Marines. This complicates things for Space Marine players, by increasing their faction's complexity to potentially unmanageable levels (how many books and card decks do you need to buy now???). Worse, when you've spent all your time modelling, playing against, and learning Space Marines, the "xenos" factions -- which have their clear and obvious strengths concentrated into a handful of models and special rules -- can seem completely unfair to play against.

Space Marines, of course, have their own ridiculous bullgak, and hard counters to pretty much everything. But that's normal, while this stuff is strange and unexpected. It needs to be nerfed so that the Emperor's Finest can triumph!

This situation is unfair to everyone.

 Jewelfox wrote:

 Hawky wrote:
I understand that Marines are easiest army to learn

No, they aren't. They have the most models, the most psychic powers, and a ton of customization options, and the stats for most of their weapons are in a separate book from their codex. Just as a point of reference, in the premade Warzone Damocles missions, I played Shadow Force Solaq ineffectively because I couldn't grasp everything all at once. My partner observed, unprompted, that they have way too many special rules.

The easiest faction to start with, bar none, is Necrons. They have no psychic powers, a low model count, fewer customization options, and extremely survivable troops, and their basic weapons are good against both tanks and infantry. They're as forgiving to paint as they are to field in a game ... and as my partner observed, "everything they have is [bullgak]." As in OP.

I have limited experience with other factions, but I'd tentatively place AdMech and Tau as the second and third easiest. Both are tough and shooty and hard to go wrong with, and have fewer models and no psychic powers. The most complicated things for each are their force-multiplier techs, like luminagen, markerlights, and Doctrina Imperatives.

Remember how excited everyone was when GW finally made AdMech models and a Harlequin faction? The 40k galaxy is so big and wondrous, and yet it seems like they're squandering all their design space and weekly releases on Space Marines. This complicates things for Space Marine players, by increasing their faction's complexity to potentially unmanageable levels (how many books and card decks do you need to buy now???). Worse, when you've spent all your time modelling, playing against, and learning Space Marines, the "xenos" factions -- which have their clear and obvious strengths concentrated into a handful of models and special rules -- can seem completely unfair to play against.

Space Marines, of course, have their own ridiculous bullgak, and hard counters to pretty much everything. But that's normal, while this stuff is strange and unexpected. It needs to be nerfed so that the Emperor's Finest can triumph!

This situation is unfair to everyone.

I can't think of a single weapon in the Marine book where they don't have a weapon profile in their book.

Really I'd still say Marines are the best army to start with.

 Gobbla wrote:
GW sells what people want.

You're assuming competence without evidence.

GW, at least Kirby GW, expected people to buy what they made, they didn't make what people wanted.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Space Marines even now have their own game purely as a "no other factions allowed" clubhouse, and the SM playerbase of that game STILL complains ceaselessly about the TWO other non-marine factions included not being "fair" because they don't wear power armored undies.

I'm not sure who you've been speaking to, but I've never met a 30k player who thinks 30k should ONLY be Marine on Marine action. Solar Auxilla, Mechanicus, and Militia are all cool and valued parts of 30k, and the ready access of all factions to roughly the same resources makes the game far more balanced.
As a Marine player of 30k, I've never found anything the Solar Auxilla or Militia can use that is unfair, and whilst I'll admit that Mechanium automata are certainly very powerful to an unprepared opponent, they are by no means unfair at all.
In fact, the only thing I've found that tickled me the wrong way was actually a Marine thing (the instant killing hand flamers).

Next time, when you generalise, make sure something backs it up.

Who in the world plays 30k without intending to play one of the space marine factions involved in that storyline?! 30k is literally all about SMs and Primarchs have you read the Horus heresy novels? While for 40k I would guess around 50%-75% of people own/played some variant of SMs in 30k I bet 90%+ of players do. 30k is all about SM fanboyism porn.

DorianGray wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Space Marines even now have their own game purely as a "no other factions allowed" clubhouse, and the SM playerbase of that game STILL complains ceaselessly about the TWO other non-marine factions included not being "fair" because they don't wear power armored undies.

I'm not sure who you've been speaking to, but I've never met a 30k player who thinks 30k should ONLY be Marine on Marine action. Solar Auxilla, Mechanicus, and Militia are all cool and valued parts of 30k, and the ready access of all factions to roughly the same resources makes the game far more balanced.
As a Marine player of 30k, I've never found anything the Solar Auxilla or Militia can use that is unfair, and whilst I'll admit that Mechanium automata are certainly very powerful to an unprepared opponent, they are by no means unfair at all.
In fact, the only thing I've found that tickled me the wrong way was actually a Marine thing (the instant killing hand flamers).

Next time, when you generalise, make sure something backs it up.

Who in the world plays 30k without intending to play one of the space marine factions involved in that storyline?! 30k is literally all about SMs and Primarchs have you read the Horus heresy novels? While for 40k I would guess around 50%-75% of people own/played some variant of SMs in 30k I bet 90%+ of players do. 30k is all about SM fanboyism porn.

People who like the other factions more? Really this sounds more like you have a chip on your shoulder.

There are waaaay too many marine factions and the game really became a "SM vs SM" thing lately. I have a SM army myself, but don't want to play with them anymore. The ammount of b-s formations, exclusive powers and other stuff, which makes them riddiculously overpowered, is one of the reasons why my gaming group decided to ban all marine armies in future games.