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2016/08/21 08:25:26
Subject: Re:A good article on games workshop as a company
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Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine
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As far as I'm concerned the De Agostini deal was so successful GW considered it too successful, and completely refrained from similar initiatives in the future.
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Progress is like a herd of pigs: everybody is interested in the produced benefits, but nobody wants to deal with all the resulting gak.
GW customers deserve every bit of outrageous princing they get. |
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2016/08/21 08:32:19
Subject: Re:A good article on games workshop as a company
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Douglas Bader
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 Korinov wrote:As far as I'm concerned the De Agostini deal was so successful GW considered it too successful, and completely refrained from similar initiatives in the future.
The fact that such a thing can be said and be 100% believable is absolutely insane.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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2016/08/21 08:50:22
Subject: Re:A good article on games workshop as a company
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Lieutenant Colonel
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@Korinov.
The De Agnostini deal was far too successful for Tom Kirby.
It proved that proper marketing and market research would grow GWplc much faster than the complete lack of proper market research and marketing Tom Kirby kept championing.(I know what the customers want , only I know how to run this unique business.  )
Like I said before he has no desire to grow GW plc too large , as it would mean he would come under much more scrutiny.
The only insane thing here is believing Tom Kirby , when he blames everyone and everything else for GW plc poor performance, from 2005 onwards. 
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2016/08/23 01:26:26
Subject: Re:A good article on games workshop as a company
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Fixture of Dakka
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Lanrak wrote:@Korinov.
The De Agnostini deal was far too successful for Tom Kirby.
It proved that proper marketing and market research would grow GWplc much faster than the complete lack of proper market research and marketing Tom Kirby kept championing.(I know what the customers want , only I know how to run this unique business. )
Like I said before he has no desire to grow GW plc too large , as it would mean he would come under much more scrutiny.
The only insane thing here is believing Tom Kirby , when he blames everyone and everything else for GW plc poor performance, from 2005 onwards.
This. At the end of the day, GW's downward spiral will cease when Kirby Disappears to whatever pit spawned him and his vampire way of "Leadership". Kirby has absolutely zero batting average on GW except as his retirement nest egg. As soon as he leaves, ( of course with an "I'll be back" D 6 roll.) GW will be back in the game, figuratively, and literally.
Social Medea, GW's forays into computer console and PC games, online presence, social interaction with their audience, games stores as actual game stores and centers... The turnaround that Roundtree has been chomping at the bit at already has spoke volumes on how past "Leadership" or lack of has effected the company.
Within a couple of months of getting into the seat, look at the turnaround, and slowly increasing goodwill gain. What would drives Kirby away permently would be a bonified outside audit.
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At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money. |
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2016/08/23 15:16:33
Subject: A good article on games workshop as a company
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Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer
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Oh man, remember Kirby's comment about Pokemon being a fad. He must be really annoyed at how successful Pokemon Go seems to be.
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"Death is my meat, terror my wine." - Unknown Dark Eldar Archon |
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2016/08/23 20:51:23
Subject: A good article on games workshop as a company
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Posts with Authority
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 Coldhatred wrote:Oh man, remember Kirby's comment about Pokemon being a fad. He must be really annoyed at how successful Pokemon Go seems to be.
Pffft. Only on smart phones.
And those are another obvious passing fad, along with that whole 'internet' thing.
The Auld Grump - heliograph was good enough for grandpa, and it's good enough for me!
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Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
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2016/08/23 21:40:32
Subject: A good article on games workshop as a company
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Coldhatred wrote:Oh man, remember Kirby's comment about Pokemon being a fad. He must be really annoyed at how successful Pokemon Go seems to be.
They probably lost more users than GW ever had :/
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2016/08/24 16:34:49
Subject: A good article on games workshop as a company
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Fixture of Dakka
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And your point is? Stop comparing apples to oranges.
Why don't you ask the question why people stick around with GW. A lot of people have invested a lot with GW. A lot of money, a lot of time, blood (literally who hasn't cut themselves numerous times?) and tears. So it's a sink cost and hard to just let go.
Pokemon Go has been out what, 2 or 3 months? Not much time invested compared to GW. How about price? Pokemon Go is free. Yes you can buy stuff, but literally no cost associated with Pokemon Go. No blood or tears. Maybe sweet involved but that is it.
Compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. There is a reason why people drop Pokemon Go so fast and can't do so with GW. It takes time, a lot of time to let GW go. So I find Marios comment means nothing with how many people leave Pokemon Go compared to people leaving GW.
Lets compare apples to apples here.
Pokemon Go got 45 million ushers. 10 million users left. That is what still 35 million users. I am sure GW would LOVE to have a 35 million user player base. So Pokemon Go lost 1/4 of their player base. I am sure GW lost more than 1/2 their player base.(just guessing 1/2, it can be more it can be less but since I don't see as much activity of 40K I would say even more than 1/2 of the player base is gone at least in my area) So again, what is Mario's point is now?
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Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong". |
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2016/08/25 00:44:23
Subject: A good article on games workshop as a company
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Douglas Bader
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Davor wrote:And your point is? Stop comparing apples to oranges.
The point is that GW made the comparison. In their own investor report they said "we're here to last, unlike fads like Pokemon".
I am sure GW would LOVE to have a 35 million user player base.
Err, you realize that's what their whole point was, right? Pokemon Go has lost more users than GW has ever had, and they're still huge (and still much bigger than GW).
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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2016/08/25 00:59:10
Subject: A good article on games workshop as a company
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Fixture of Dakka
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Davor wrote:
And your point is? Stop comparing apples to oranges.
Why don't you ask the question why people stick around with GW. A lot of people have invested a lot with GW. A lot of money, a lot of time, blood (literally who hasn't cut themselves numerous times?) and tears. So it's a sink cost and hard to just let go.
Pokemon Go has been out what, 2 or 3 months? Not much time invested compared to GW. How about price? Pokemon Go is free. Yes you can buy stuff, but literally no cost associated with Pokemon Go. No blood or tears. Maybe sweet involved but that is it.
Compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. There is a reason why people drop Pokemon Go so fast and can't do so with GW. It takes time, a lot of time to let GW go. So I find Marios comment means nothing with how many people leave Pokemon Go compared to people leaving GW.
Lets compare apples to apples here.
Pokemon Go got 45 million ushers. 10 million users left. That is what still 35 million users. I am sure GW would LOVE to have a 35 million user player base. So Pokemon Go lost 1/4 of their player base. I am sure GW lost more than 1/2 their player base.(just guessing 1/2, it can be more it can be less but since I don't see as much activity of 40K I would say even more than 1/2 of the player base is gone at least in my area) So again, what is Mario's point is now?
Not the issue. The point was that the fad angle of the game was what kept people IN GW. Combine that with Mutt derogatory comments about the fan base, such as goobers, or lemmings, or whatever cute name of the moment is, and the total jamesbond villain vitorl from Kirby himself and you have exactly what Peregrine was talking about. GW wants the short run cash grab, not a long seasonal flow of cash from you, the goober. You need to go back and look at the source material for context.
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At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money. |
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2016/08/25 01:12:48
Subject: Re:A good article on games workshop as a company
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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My point was that on the one hand Pokemon (the supposed fad) probably lost more users than GW ever had and on the other hand that the hope some people put into this game didn't realize (just watch Nintendo's share price as the game was hyped and then when people realized that most of the money wouldn't end up with Nintendo). For some it was supposed to be the game that could defy the standard mobile game trajectory where they make a lot of money for a short time and the fall off while the next random game takes over (the series is about two decades old now and still has a huge userbase, some stickiness is guaranteed). To some degree it's a mixed bag of success/failure because Nintendo, while still successful in a way that just can't be fairly compared to GW also got hit by hard times because mobile games took some of their customers. They got huge numbers compared to GW ($268 million within five weeks estimated for Pokemon GO) but they also have their own problems. Thus the :/ or :-/
I hope that makes more sense now.
Slightly unrelated but the game had a lot of success even if that was short lived (some of it's further success will probably depend on the next design changes). But it seems to have increased demand for the Nintendo 3DS and traditional Pokemon games (quotes from here).
…Nintendo said Pokemon Go helped drive 3DS hardware sales up 80% year-on-year to make it the best-selling system of the month.
2011 releases Pokemon X and Y enjoyed a 200% year-on-year sales increase over July 2015. 2014 release Pokemon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire saw increases of 80% year-on-year.
Pokemon seems to have found success with iteratively improved gameplay and advertisement (in this case, indirectly through Pokemon GO), that might be something for GW to try out.
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2016/08/25 15:21:11
Subject: A good article on games workshop as a company
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Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer
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My point, besides what Peregrine, Davor, and Mario stated, is that the sounding-chamber at GW was THAT bad, that the CEO was able to make a completely asinine comment like that in an investor report. Certainly not comparing the products, more the business mindset that GW was in.
Things certainly appear to be heading in a more positive direction, and I almost wish the change would have happened sooner before I was asked to leave as a Store Manager because I wasn't willing to sell stuff people didn't want.
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"Death is my meat, terror my wine." - Unknown Dark Eldar Archon |
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2016/08/25 23:37:31
Subject: A good article on games workshop as a company
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Fixture of Dakka
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Ah I see now. Thanks for clarifying it guys.
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Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong". |
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2016/08/26 19:55:37
Subject: A good article on games workshop as a company
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Mighty Chosen Warrior of Chaos
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