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Made in gb
Fully-charged Electropriest






Agreed, the BS2 is part of the identity we have (for better or worse) but that's not to say some equipment like Gitfindas dont mesh well. The idea that our poor accuracy and leadership is balanced out by volume of fire, horde-ability and CC prowess didn't really translate well into this new codex. We dont actually do hordes that well because Boyz are worse now than ever (in comparison to our other units, the new and recently buffed units for other factions etc) and more unreliable than we expect (Mob Rule). We have volume of fire in a few places that's effective (Lootas, Warbikers, Lobbas) but the rest of it just isn't numerous enough for the cost (shootas) or isn't of a good enough quality to matter much (Supa-shootas). Our CC ability is frankly lacking so much that all we do very well now is beat up small units of MEQ very efficiently (Boyz, Meganobz), something that it seems isn't being put on the table very much these days unless it's an alpha strike drop pod list or a MSU army. We certainly can't compete with the real CC factions like Space Wolves or KDK on their terms and we can't build any deathstar worth talking about (not a problem for me personally). We do everything to a decent standard with a bit of a skew on close combat and I like that, I just want a bit more flavour and a bit more competency from our specialist units.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




 Vankraken wrote:
BS2 with a boat load of shots is the Orky way... The problem is GW lately has been handing out volume of fire shooting to everyone except the Orks (where is our heavy 20 weapons?).


Agreed, I've been thinking about it lately and I feel most orks weapon should get pinning (maybe add a min number of model per unit requirement for Shoota boyz to get it). It would not only give the orks a sorely needed boost, but would also fit as it would represents the loud, massive incoming dakka not hitting the target yet straying nearby.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/17 11:18:07


 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob




Crescent City Fl..

I'd rather have them at BS4 with an Initiative increase. Maybe reduce their attack to 1 and raise their point cost a little bit so they don't become too overpowered. This way, they'll be practically MEQ, be easier to play and would have 0 distinctive edge.

Come on, BS 2 on Orks is not only a defining trait of the army but also needed for them to retain their character (an horde army with powerful c.c. units)

That's not even anywhere near what I was saying.
BS2 is only a defining trait as of 3ed edition.
Sure 5 editions and no sign that it's going away. I get it.

One question, where are these powerful CC units ? which units are you talking about? Beyond the Green tide Orks seem to have a powerful CC unit any more, unless your talking about MANZ, or Bully Boys which are still MANZ.

Sigh, Yet another doomed attempt by man to bridge the gap between the material and spiritual worlds 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






 warhead01 wrote:
One question, where are these powerful CC units ? which units are you talking about? Beyond the Green tide Orks seem to have a powerful CC unit any more, unless your talking about MANZ, or Bully Boys which are still MANZ.


That's the problem with the incredibly uninspired 7th edition Ork codex. We don't have durable melee units that can survive long enough to swing those PKs (unless your a MANz against no AP2 melee), we don't have invuln saves to survive against AP2, low strength for our bread and butter infantry against an increasingly durable roster of threats (lots of T5 and above out there now). Hitting hard in melee falls to PKs or Walker melee while Big Choppas would hit hard but it can't cut through armor. Pile on top of that fragile transports, weak saves, and EXTREMELY overpriced bikes for Nobz (cost more per model than giving a bike to a Space Marine Captain) and you have an army that struggles to survive getting into melee and can't throw down against actual melee units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/17 13:21:50


"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise" 
   
Made in gb
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Nottingham UK

 koooaei wrote:
Lootas perform ok as they are. However, in no way they're 'lootas'. Just 'Deffgunnaz'. And it makes me sad.

The way i'd improve them is give them free reign on taking whatever stuff they want all from different codexes as they're supposed to be looting shiny and loud guns.

Bolters, stormbolters, assault cannons, missile launchers, plazma cannons, scatlasers, shuricannons, lazcannons, sniper rifles, heavy stabbers, meltas and so on. That's what they should be able te pick from. And autocannons if you want them to be fielded as is.


Not an ork player myself, but love their style and my best mate plays as them.....

Anyway, would you be against giving them a massive list of weapons to choose from, but severely restricting the amount of said weapons. 1 of each type of heavy weapon and two of each type of special? etc etc. Sure you'd get an extremely shooty unit, but with BS2 and the massive potential point sink, I'd think it would be fairly balanced. The only reason I would want to see them with a variety of heavy weapons, instead of mobs full of single types of weapons is simply... it doesn't seem orky. Having a squad all having the same heavy weapon seems something more like something hummies would do.

2000
1500

Astral Miliwhat? You're in the Guard son!  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Talizvar wrote:
Just had a thought, like CSM winning a challenge to get chaos favors, if they kill a unit, "roll on the following chart for what they find (Grots brought them da loot)".
I could see on a six a single use crack missile etc...


So, if I destroy an entire unit with my BS2 S7 AP4 lootas, And I then roll a 6 I can get a single BS2 Crack missile? WOW! Sorry for the sarcasm but seriously dude come on.

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:
 warhead01 wrote:
I'd prefer the Ork army to just get piped up to BS3 across the board.


I'd rather have them at BS4 with an Initiative increase. Maybe reduce their attack to 1 and raise their point cost a little bit so they don't become too overpowered. This way, they'll be practically MEQ, be easier to play and would have 0 distinctive edge.

Come on, BS 2 on Orks is not only a defining trait of the army but also needed for them to retain their character (an horde army with powerful c.c. units)


What powerful CC units are you referring to? Our best CC unit is Boyz who are S3 I2. Our nobz are S4 T4, if you give them PKs they are S8(9) T4 but at Initiative 1. If you make them into MegaNobz they are cheaper, have better armor, but they can't run, can't sweeping advance and again are T4 I1.

Orks are not a CC army. We are supposed to be a horde CC army that loves hilarious weapons and shooting a lot. Instead we are the NPC race so that SM and Space Elf players feel like they did something.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Nobody should ever be copying the CSM dex for ideas. It's awful, the boon table hardly ever comes up.
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob




Crescent City Fl..

{quote] What powerful CC units are you referring to? Our best CC unit is Boyz who are S3 I2. Our nobz are S4 T4, if you give them PKs they are S8(9) T4 but at Initiative 1. If you make them into MegaNobz they are cheaper, have better armor, but they can't run, can't sweeping advance and again are T4 I1.

Orks are not a CC army. We are supposed to be a horde CC army that loves hilarious weapons and shooting a lot. Instead we are the NPC race so that SM and Space Elf players feel like they did something.


Yes, that does seem to be the case this time around.

That's the problem with the incredibly uninspired 7th edition Ork codex. We don't have durable melee units that can survive long enough to swing those PKs (unless your a MANz against no AP2 melee), we don't have invuln saves to survive against AP2, low strength for our bread and butter infantry against an increasingly durable roster of threats (lots of T5 and above out there now). Hitting hard in melee falls to PKs or Walker melee while Big Choppas would hit hard but it can't cut through armor. Pile on top of that fragile transports, weak saves, and EXTREMELY overpriced bikes for Nobz (cost more per model than giving a bike to a Space Marine Captain) and you have an army that struggles to survive getting into melee and can't throw down against actual melee units.

Yep.

I get that Orks are BS2, I really do. It's right out of the movies, or videos shot from the middle east, where they just kinda point, shoot and shake the rifle at the enemy while they do it. So, sure Boys being BS2 I get. But some units would be fine with a better BS. Lootas, as they are now with Deff Guns or even SAG Meks. they aren't I would imagine just snapping off random shots with their fancy guns. Certainly not the SAGMek any way. So why not raise their BS or and make mine a double , give them more shots, especially the SAGMek. HA! Flippin Brilliant! Just imagine two sets of Double 6 Ha two Vortex! Brilliant. And maybe worth the risk.


These things are very circular, the problem is still durability and Leadership more than BS.

It occurs to me Lootas should just be renamed and left, more or less like they are. However, with all these cool loota, lootin ideas, why not have that as a whole other thing that a unit can pay for, like for looting a vehicle during a game then it could be boys doing it, who will actually be near a vehicle they might wish to loot. Maybe a boys mob with upgraded Meks in the mob as a thing possibly in place of the Special weapons options.
I don't know.
This could turn into a rant about how.......this 7th editions codex turned out if I'm not careful. Don't want to further derail things.
I tell you what though, I'm going to play the lotto and if I win, I'll pay GW to just right a better Ork Codex. What would that cost a few hundred thousand Dollars? can't be all that much. And they like Money right? lol.

Sigh, Yet another doomed attempt by man to bridge the gap between the material and spiritual worlds 
   
Made in ca
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'




Kapuskasing, ON

I'm don't feel that the dakka lootas can unleash is a problem. I could be wrong and missed a unit from some other codex but lootas are the most point efficient means of puthing str7 ranged firepower on the table. Every single model has an auto cannon on its shoulders. Not two or three models working as a team to use the heavy auto cannon. Every one of them. I do fin them squishy as is the case with all base orks. Perhaps a lucky paint upgrade that gives them an invuln save against ranged only because if lootas are in melee with autocannons strapped to their shoulders then sumfing went terribly wrong.
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





 Vankraken wrote:
BS2 with a boat load of shots is the Orky way... The problem is GW lately has been handing out volume of fire shooting to everyone except the Orks (where is our heavy 20 weapons?).
Agreed. And why would pointy ears shoot twice as many bullets as an Ork? That's just bananas.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 ProwlerPC wrote:
I'm don't feel that the dakka lootas can unleash is a problem. I could be wrong and missed a unit from some other codex but lootas are the most point efficient means of puthing str7 ranged firepower on the table. Every single model has an auto cannon on its shoulders. Not two or three models working as a team to use the heavy auto cannon. Every one of them. I do fin them squishy as is the case with all base orks. Perhaps a lucky paint upgrade that gives them an invuln save against ranged only because if lootas are in melee with autocannons strapped to their shoulders then sumfing went terribly wrong.


There are two ways to field them. small 5 man squads that are either ignored or shot at just out of spite with a few left over bolters/whatever. These guys on average put out 10 S7Ap4 shots a turn, that equates to 3 hits. So that squad 70 points squad averages 3 hits, so rather cheap.

For 115pts (45 more) CSM can take a squad of havocs who can take 4 autocannons which will average 3 hits a round. So literally THE SAME DAKKA. Yes they are 45pts more expensive, but that 45pts buys you a number of benefits, such as LD9 and BS4 and 3+ Armor.
that
So more expensive, but those guys will not be randomly destroyed by a few bolter rounds or whatever. And of course CSM is a bottom tier codex with orks.

The other way to take Lootas is in massive 10-15 boy units. If you fully upgrade lootas to 15 models they will average 30 shots a turn and 10 hits. 10 S7 Hits is nothing to scoff at, but that unit is now a BIG target for the enemy because that unit is 210pts and has almost zero durability. T4 with a 6+ save means these guys NEED to be in cover, unfortunately if you put them in cover a number of models wont be able to shoot at a target because of LOS restrictions. And of course if your enemy is Tau? then your boned anyway.

They need more durability and/or Dakka.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in ru
Cackling Chaos Conscript





For 115pts (45 more) CSM can take a squad of havocs who can take 4 autocannons which will average 3 hits a round


Actually havocs with 4 autocannons have more dakka than 5 lootas, beacuse of BS 4. 8 shots at BS 4 is 5,(333) hits, not only 3.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/18 07:23:25


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




 warhead01 wrote:
I'd rather have them at BS4 with an Initiative increase. Maybe reduce their attack to 1 and raise their point cost a little bit so they don't become too overpowered. This way, they'll be practically MEQ, be easier to play and would have 0 distinctive edge.

Come on, BS 2 on Orks is not only a defining trait of the army but also needed for them to retain their character (an horde army with powerful c.c. units)

That's not even anywhere near what I was saying.
BS2 is only a defining trait as of 3ed edition.
Sure 5 editions and no sign that it's going away. I get it.

One question, where are these powerful CC units ? which units are you talking about? Beyond the Green tide Orks seem to have a powerful CC unit any more, unless your talking about MANZ, or Bully Boys which are still MANZ.


Oh don't get me wrong, Orks sucks now and their only good unit that I can think of are mek gunz (which are as unorky as a unit can be). Wulfen are so much more powerful than nobz, it's not even funny. Worst of all, our codex is bland and boring. No special c.c. weapon, Waagh is effing boring and doesn't fit the army imo (speed, horde and c.c. is the tyranid game), save for the nobz, a unit so awful it's barely playable, our units barely have any customization opitions, etc.
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob




Crescent City Fl..

Oh don't get me wrong, Orks sucks now and their only good unit that I can think of are mek gunz (which are as unorky as a unit can be). Wulfen are so much more powerful than nobz, it's not even funny. Worst of all, our codex is bland and boring. No special c.c. weapon, Waagh is effing boring and doesn't fit the army imo (speed, horde and c.c. is the tyranid game), save for the nobz, a unit so awful it's barely playable, our units barely have any customization opitions, etc.

I hadn't really thought about the WAAAGH thing. Last codex I forgot it was even a thing for ..two years or more. And I was playing very regularly. Maybe Orks should gain several different abilities from WAAAGH. Maybe there's a list of maybe 3 to 5 things. More Dakka, the fleet rule we have now and a few other, maybe a LD reroll maybe FNP. Then set conditions, must be 10 or more models for this or that, must be in close combat for this or that. I'd even put pile on Da pain on the list or something. Maybe just stick it on Nobs, maybe it's a Nobz thing.(Maybe Nobs and bosses...)
I'd maybe think about going even further something like Orks auto wound on a 6 to hit with choppas. But not thinking about changing the choppa AP. ( does it have one?) It might seem a bit strong but I don't think it's that much stronger than Tau Marker lights and the abilities in their new/current codex and supplement.

I think that might feel like it's getting into AoS territory.
Speaking of. There's a blog I found linked in one of the AoS threads and that blogger is making AoS/40K warscrolls. The lootas are 6 shots with a single mek. but they can loot a vehicle during a game. with a roll over the number of wound it had and discarding the loota in the attempt. Then it's looted.
I like the idea, just not on a units of deff guns.Although, that warscroll does make Lootas hit on 6's, so not reason not to move them, no bonus for not moving them.

Sigh, Yet another doomed attempt by man to bridge the gap between the material and spiritual worlds 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 warhead01 wrote:
Oh don't get me wrong, Orks sucks now and their only good unit that I can think of are mek gunz (which are as unorky as a unit can be). Wulfen are so much more powerful than nobz, it's not even funny. Worst of all, our codex is bland and boring. No special c.c. weapon, Waagh is effing boring and doesn't fit the army imo (speed, horde and c.c. is the tyranid game), save for the nobz, a unit so awful it's barely playable, our units barely have any customization opitions, etc.

I hadn't really thought about the WAAAGH thing. Last codex I forgot it was even a thing for ..two years or more. And I was playing very regularly. Maybe Orks should gain several different abilities from WAAAGH. Maybe there's a list of maybe 3 to 5 things. More Dakka, the fleet rule we have now and a few other, maybe a LD reroll maybe FNP. Then set conditions, must be 10 or more models for this or that, must be in close combat for this or that. I'd even put pile on Da pain on the list or something. Maybe just stick it on Nobs, maybe it's a Nobz thing.(Maybe Nobs and bosses...)
I'd maybe think about going even further something like Orks auto wound on a 6 to hit with choppas. But not thinking about changing the choppa AP. ( does it have one?) It might seem a bit strong but I don't think it's that much stronger than Tau Marker lights and the abilities in their new/current codex and supplement.

I think that might feel like it's getting into AoS territory.
Speaking of. There's a blog I found linked in one of the AoS threads and that blogger is making AoS/40K warscrolls. The lootas are 6 shots with a single mek. but they can loot a vehicle during a game. with a roll over the number of wound it had and discarding the loota in the attempt. Then it's looted.
I like the idea, just not on a units of deff guns.Although, that warscroll does make Lootas hit on 6's, so not reason not to move them, no bonus for not moving them.


Can you link this blog? Highly interested in seeing what he has done!
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob




Crescent City Fl..

Can you link this blog? Highly interested in seeing what he has done!


Sure thing.

http://hivefleetcharybdis.blogspot.com/

I'm still only just starting to read through it. Haven't even played my first game of AoS yet but with all the AoS+40K = 8th. Kinda interesting that some one out there is doing it already. I'm starting to think about how would I do that for a 40K+ Silver tower board game. Would be cool if some one made a character builder,


Sigh, Yet another doomed attempt by man to bridge the gap between the material and spiritual worlds 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

What would happen if Shootas got one more shot, Lootas got two more shots, an everything else simply got a small point discount? More shots equals more fun, right?
   
Made in us
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Yep. For 7 points, shootas should have 2 more shots...i,e., 1.333 hits.
   
Made in us
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets






Honestly I'd prefer more grot units with good ranged weapons. The problem with giving orks more shots and cheaper units to make up for their BS2 is that you have to roll an impractical amount of dice for the total output to be competitive. Yes, I know that it's a side effect of playing a horde army but there's a certain point where it becomes ridiculous. Can we get grots with snipers or usable kans?

40k drinking game: take a shot everytime a book references Skitarii using transports.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




I don't think anyone would be adverse to better Kanz but otherwise you're asking for things that don't make sense in an Ork army. Snipers at all? Really?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






Ork "Snipers" are in the fluff but really their version of a sniper rifle would have Heavy 3 and basically would be a Big Shoota with a highly impractical scope mounted somewhere on the thing.

"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise" 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob




Crescent City Fl..

I'd love for my Grots to use their autto-guns again.

Sigh, Yet another doomed attempt by man to bridge the gap between the material and spiritual worlds 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Grot snipers are in the fluff regularly, as are regular Ork sniperz.

Shoota boyz need there own fix to become useful, BS2 with 2 shots at 18in sounds good but its not worth increasing the price of an Ork Boy by 16%. 10 boyz will first off almost never be in range together since 18in is ridiculously short range for such a shoddy weapon but even if by some miracle they are, thats 20 shots at BS2 S4 which against a T4 unit equals out to 3 or so wounds.

Lootas on the other hand, if you increased their shot output by 2. So instead of being D3 you just made them a flat 4 shots, would be more usable but not fixing their underlying problem of ZERO Staying power. 10 Lootas at BS2 with 40shots = 13 hits now instead of the standard 6ish. So good Damage output but again as soon as an enemy shot at you they would die in droves and run off the table. Not usable in our current edition of super power ridiculous units that can auto delete units every turn.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob




Crescent City Fl..

I had a though months ago. what if you could buy gorts for mobs of boys. just to stand there and die first.

Sigh, Yet another doomed attempt by man to bridge the gap between the material and spiritual worlds 
   
Made in us
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 gnome_idea_what wrote:
Honestly I'd prefer more grot units with good ranged weapons. The problem with giving orks more shots and cheaper units to make up for their BS2 is that you have to roll an impractical amount of dice for the total output to be competitive. Yes, I know that it's a side effect of playing a horde army but there's a certain point where it becomes ridiculous.
I have 72 dice, and sometimes that's not enough. It is a problem counting them all. I have thought of ways to streamline the stacking and throwing of them while still being random. I wouldn't have a problem throwing 200 dice (or more) at a pop. It would be kinda fun actually.
Right now, if you took a full greentide and cast the weirdboy's warpath on it you could actually get 1,500 attacks in combat at st 4 and ws4. Not too shabby...although it might be mathematically impossible for all 300 boyz to attack a single target.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/20 23:38:37


 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






 JimOnMars wrote:
 gnome_idea_what wrote:
Honestly I'd prefer more grot units with good ranged weapons. The problem with giving orks more shots and cheaper units to make up for their BS2 is that you have to roll an impractical amount of dice for the total output to be competitive. Yes, I know that it's a side effect of playing a horde army but there's a certain point where it becomes ridiculous.
I have 72 dice, and sometimes that's not enough. It is a problem counting them all. I have thought of ways to streamline the stacking and throwing of them while still being random. I wouldn't have a problem throwing 200 dice (or more) at a pop. It would be kinda fun actually.
Right now, if you took a full greentide and cast the weirdboy's warpath on it you could actually get 1,500 attacks in combat at st 4 and ws4. Not too shabby...although it might be mathematically impossible for all 300 boyz to attack a single target.


The most i managed to get off in a real game was around 150. Which inflicted something like 1 wound. Fething psychic deathstars.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






A lot of the complaints I see from people about Orks on here seem to indicate they want Orks to be something they aren't, and never have been. Don't like randomisation? Don't play Orks. It's been a feature of the army since 1st Ed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Personally, I'd be happy for minor tweaks to a few things, and point reductions for the rest.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/21 08:46:41


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Nazrak wrote:
A lot of the complaints I see from people about Orks on here seem to indicate they want Orks to be something they aren't, and never have been. Don't like randomisation? Don't play Orks. It's been a feature of the army since 1st Ed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Personally, I'd be happy for minor tweaks to a few things, and point reductions for the rest.


Randomization is fine when its balanced. Unfortunately almost NOTHING in the ork codex is balanced. our Blitzabomber drops a bomb, on a double 1 it dies in a firey crash costing you points, on a 10-12 it gets to shoot its target with its guns as well as drop the bomb.....

Mob Rule, on a 1 you run away, on a 2-6 you kill your own guys.

Psychic shenanigans WE TEST ON A FETHING 7!

We have access to a lot of Plasma like weapons with +1strength, they kill their bearer on a roll of 1 but only HIT on a 5 or 6. So you have a 50% chance to kill yourself compared to hitting your target. Ohh and did I mention the cost? 5pts for a ranged 24 and 10pts for a plasma pistol? Thereby taking away the benefit of orks in close combat because that stupid pistol is to expensive and doesn't function most of the game.

Bubble Chucka, yay random AP and S nice! I GOT AP1!!!!! but that means IM S1 wounding on 6s.

Zzap Gunz, just as likely to kill your crew as the enemy

Smasha Gun, S4+D6 you have to choose your target before rolling strength, which means that if you try to hit a AV13 vehicle with that 1 Shot AP1 weapon you better roll a 3+ otherwise you wont even get to glance the thing on a roll of 6.


So to summarize, Randomness is fine, so long as the benefits AT LEAST equal the downsides. At the moment that doesn't happen and that is why we hate Ork Randomness.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Things definitely need to be cheaper on the Ork side. Once I finalized CSM fixes I'll be working on Orks.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





This. QFT:

SemperMortis wrote:
 Nazrak wrote:
A lot of the complaints I see from people about Orks on here seem to indicate they want Orks to be something they aren't, and never have been. Don't like randomisation? Don't play Orks. It's been a feature of the army since 1st Ed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Personally, I'd be happy for minor tweaks to a few things, and point reductions for the rest.


Randomization is fine when its balanced. Unfortunately almost NOTHING in the ork codex is balanced. our Blitzabomber drops a bomb, on a double 1 it dies in a firey crash costing you points, on a 10-12 it gets to shoot its target with its guns as well as drop the bomb.....

Mob Rule, on a 1 you run away, on a 2-6 you kill your own guys.

Psychic shenanigans WE TEST ON A FETHING 7!

We have access to a lot of Plasma like weapons with +1strength, they kill their bearer on a roll of 1 but only HIT on a 5 or 6. So you have a 50% chance to kill yourself compared to hitting your target. Ohh and did I mention the cost? 5pts for a ranged 24 and 10pts for a plasma pistol? Thereby taking away the benefit of orks in close combat because that stupid pistol is to expensive and doesn't function most of the game.

Bubble Chucka, yay random AP and S nice! I GOT AP1!!!!! but that means IM S1 wounding on 6s.

Zzap Gunz, just as likely to kill your crew as the enemy

Smasha Gun, S4+D6 you have to choose your target before rolling strength, which means that if you try to hit a AV13 vehicle with that 1 Shot AP1 weapon you better roll a 3+ otherwise you wont even get to glance the thing on a roll of 6.


So to summarize, Randomness is fine, so long as the benefits AT LEAST equal the downsides. At the moment that doesn't happen and that is why we hate Ork Randomness.
   
 
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