Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Yeah, that's part of why I think they/we are misinterpreting the question. It's terribly worded.

I wonder if part of it simply comes from the fact that some of those formations just can't ever fit into any non-superheavy transport.

I don't think any Kill Team CANT fit into at least one of their Transports, as you don't need to max out things like Terminators etc.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I don't think any Kill Team CANT fit into at least one of their Transports, as you don't need to max out things like Terminators etc.

Venator immediately springs to mind for anything shy of a Corvus Blackstar. You need to take a unit of Veterans and a unit of Bikers, which must include at least two Bikers.

That's 2 models with Very Bulky(6 spots in a transport) and 5 taking up normal slots...which immediately puts out Rhino, Drop Pod, and Razorback

 Cephalobeard wrote:
No Shotguns/Bolters for DW, but hey, at least you can use a HTH (Two Handed) and a STORMS SHIELD at the same time and create a 85 point 1w t4 marine!

Well the bolter shotgun was fairly predictable. Hopefully nobody glude that combo or doesn't mind models with both

If you build your army and your strategy around an obvious oversight, I have no sympathy for you now that it has been FAQ'd.

Buzzdady wrote:So no bolter/shotgun for deathwatch, beacon Angelis has all of its fun and uniqueness removed, and kill teams can't take dedicated transports anymore? Do I have that all right?

So what's the fun in playing Deathwatch anymore...

How about the fun is because you like Deathwatch and finally field an actual Deathwatch army and have a codex. I guess in 8th edition of 40K, Deathwatch codex should disappear into the 8th edition Space Marine codex just like what happened to Black Templar. Would this be better?

Liking the army for liking it is all well and good, but there is no denying DW got the absolute shaft with this FAQ.

You're welcome to argue people can play with 1st edition space marine rules with cardboard models because they like them, but it doesn't mean people are happy when an army is massively affected by changes, when they were already weak on the power scale.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Liking the army for liking it is all well and good, but there is no denying DW got the absolute shaft with this FAQ.

You're welcome to argue people can play with 1st edition space marine rules with cardboard models because they like them, but it doesn't mean people are happy when an army is massively affected by changes, when they were already weak on the power scale.

Maybe its my Tyranid and GsC gamer in me frowning at you, but not being able to game the equipment selection and not having Dedicated transports doesn't seem all that..... Shafty. Especially considering DW has so many options still available.

What bizarre is that the bolter/shotgun combo got ruled out, but that same FAQ states heavy weapon/bolter is fine, and says nothing about other special wepons (so presumably plasmagun/boltgun is fine?)

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Liking the army for liking it is all well and good, but there is no denying DW got the absolute shaft with this FAQ.

You're welcome to argue people can play with 1st edition space marine rules with cardboard models because they like them, but it doesn't mean people are happy when an army is massively affected by changes, when they were already weak on the power scale.

Apart from dedicated transport(which does suck) and bolter/shotgun(which was predictable and which I pointed out during the release) were there other big effects?

I kept saying don't model bp&shotgun at least until faq verifies it. It was so plain that was not intended. If it was they would have put both as basic wargear in the first place!

If anyone cares, the daemon FAQ kills off pinkies inability to use malefic. It's more up to date and grants their unit type "psykers and brotherhood of psykers" access to the table. Daemon factory is back.

 EnTyme wrote:
If you build your army and your strategy around an obvious oversight, I have no sympathy for you now that it has been FAQ'd.

It wasn't an obvious oversight; it was a valid choice based on the wargear table. I don't see any reason why it would be banned, but other weirder ones aren't (SS/Heavy, Heavy/Bolter, etc).

Cephalobeard wrote:Liking the army for liking it is all well and good, but there is no denying DW got the absolute shaft with this FAQ.

You're welcome to argue people can play with 1st edition space marine rules with cardboard models because they like them, but it doesn't mean people are happy when an army is massively affected by changes, when they were already weak on the power scale.

I don't know. Maybe being a Tyranid player and being use to getting nerfed in FAQs is nothing new.

As was mentioned already by Carnikang, that is all the options you have? Have you ever been a Tyranid player? Have you ever been a Black Templar player?

 pretre wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
If you build your army and your strategy around an obvious oversight, I have no sympathy for you now that it has been FAQ'd.

It wasn't an obvious oversight; it was a valid choice based on the wargear table. I don't see any reason why it would be banned, but other weirder ones aren't (SS/Heavy, Heavy/Bolter, etc).

It didn't make much sense. There was literally no downside to it. If it was intended would have been easier to have them both in basic wargear and not have some players lose game efficiency by not realizing do that. Top of that is there anything in the game with similar combo?

It was pretty suspicious combination so if you do models with that combo before faq clarifies don't complain if it got changed. It was pretty high chance it would be prevented. Not once in a blue moon chance.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
If anyone cares, the daemon FAQ kills off pinkies inability to use malefic. It's more up to date and grants their unit type "psykers and brotherhood of psykers" access to the table. Daemon factory is back.

Except that FAQ applies to the Pink Horror datasheet in Codex Chaos Daemons. It is replaced by the Pink Horror/Blue Horror/Brimstone Horror datasheets from Wrath of Magnus, which according to it's FAQ does prevent them from using Malefic.

tneva82 wrote:
Top of that is there anything in the game with similar combo?

Yep. Pretty much any squad with a free on their ranged list can do it. SM Command Squad, for example.

 Ghaz wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
If anyone cares, the daemon FAQ kills off pinkies inability to use malefic. It's more up to date and grants their unit type "psykers and brotherhood of psykers" access to the table. Daemon factory is back.

Except that FAQ applies to the Pink Horror datasheet in Codex Chaos Daemons. It is replaced by the Pink Horror/Blue Horror/Brimstone Horror datasheets from Wrath of Magnus, which according to it's FAQ does prevent them from using Malefic.

They put it in the daemon one. But said it applies to all of them; all codexes. "Various psykers"
If they have the psykers or BoP rule, they got it back. As of 1/20/17. Magnus was back in 2016, and becomes invalidated.

 pretre wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Top of that is there anything in the game with similar combo?

Yep. Pretty much any squad with a free on their ranged list can do it. SM Command Squad, for example.

And even then, this has only "fixed" one example of that argument. Bolter/flamer, bolter/meltagun, bolter/plasma gun, even bolter/stalker pattern bolter are still completely legal, and that's without touching the heavy weapons...

All of those use the same logic, so I don't see how they're valid other than a very narrow, targeted reading of the FAQ.

 nudibranch wrote:

 pretre wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Top of that is there anything in the game with similar combo?

Yep. Pretty much any squad with a free on their ranged list can do it. SM Command Squad, for example.

And even then, this has only "fixed" one example of that argument. Bolter/flamer, bolter/meltagun, bolter/plasma gun, even bolter/stalker pattern bolter are still completely legal, and that's without touching the heavy weapons...

Are those combos free though? Or is it +1pts for stalker pattern bolter etc?

Well. People wanted to assemble models before faq which had significant chance to disallow it. Fair enough. Hopefully they were prepared to live with the decision. If not better not model until FAQ comes or at least do it so that it's easy to change.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
If anyone cares, the daemon FAQ kills off pinkies inability to use malefic. It's more up to date and grants their unit type "psykers and brotherhood of psykers" access to the table. Daemon factory is back.

Except that FAQ applies to the Pink Horror datasheet in Codex Chaos Daemons. It is replaced by the Pink Horror/Blue Horror/Brimstone Horror datasheets from Wrath of Magnus, which according to it's FAQ does prevent them from using Malefic.

They put it in the daemon one. But said it applies to all of them; all codexes. "Various psykers"

They never say that it applies to 'all codexes'. By being in the Codex Chaos Daemons FAQ it only applies to that codex.

They have Traitor Legions but not Wrath of Magnus. So the arguing (pointless arguing) over whether or not you lose formation benefits for having a full cabal will still be debated, if you lose one squad.

 Ghaz wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
If anyone cares, the daemon FAQ kills off pinkies inability to use malefic. It's more up to date and grants their unit type "psykers and brotherhood of psykers" access to the table. Daemon factory is back.

Except that FAQ applies to the Pink Horror datasheet in Codex Chaos Daemons. It is replaced by the Pink Horror/Blue Horror/Brimstone Horror datasheets from Wrath of Magnus, which according to it's FAQ does prevent them from using Malefic.

Ghaz is correct here. Specific always trumps general and here is the breakdown:
-BRB grants all Psykers access to Daemonology
-Daemon FAQ further supports this by stating all Psyker in the Daemon codex have access to Malefic
-Wrath of Magnus Horrors replace the Daemon codex entry
-WoM FAQ specifically says Horrors only have access to Change

-

i don't have my Magnus book with me. But since the FAQ list is newest, and doesn't include Magnus and Magnus FAQ specifically denied it to horrors last month and the newest daemon FAQ grants it back, I would personally go by the newest ruling.
If Magnus removes them from having psykers or BoP rule, then I rescind my argument.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
i don't have my Magnus book with me. But since the FAQ list is newest, and doesn't include Magnus and Magnus FAQ specifically denied it to horrors last month and the newest daemon FAQ grants it back, I would personally go by the newest ruling.
If Magnus removes them from having psykers or BoP rule, then I rescind my argument.

Again, you're ignoring the context. It has nothing to do with which is newer, but which book it applies to. The Codex Chaos Daemons FAQ only applies to Codex Chaos Daemons and the Wrath of Magnus FAQ only applies to Wrath of Magnus unless specifically stated otherwise. There is no such specific statement otherwise, which is where your argument fails. Therefore since the specified datasheets from Wrath of Magnus replace those in Codex Chaos Daemons and have been FAQed to not allow Malefic, Pink Horrors, Blue Horrors and Brimstone Horrors do NOT have Malefic.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
i don't have my Magnus book with me. But since the FAQ list is newest, and doesn't include Magnus and Magnus FAQ specifically denied it to horrors last month and the newest daemon FAQ grants it back, I would personally go by the newest ruling.
If Magnus removes them from having psykers or BoP rule, then I rescind my argument.

The new Daemon FAQ does not invalidate the Magnus FAQ. Both are valid and up to date.
If the Daemon FAQ SPECIFICALLY said Horrors could access Malefic, at best we would have a conflict.
But it doesn't. It gives "blanket" access to all Psyker entries in the Daemon codex. And since there is no longer a valid Pink Horror entry IN THAT CODEX, it doesn't matter. They did not need to specify.
The current valid Horror entries are listed in the Magnus book, which has it's own current FAQ

-

My Iyanden droid army is back!

Me happy now.

 tirnaog wrote:

My Iyanden droid army is back!

Me happy now.

Wraithguard still aren't Troops, even with the Iyanden book. Just be aware of that. Nice Relics in that book though

In the Warhammer Live game going on now I mentioned the drop pod FAQ, so then did a couple more, and they said they would be using it. So glad that switched. Of course not everyone will always be happy and I feel disappointed on some of those FAQ calls but, overall...

The DW shotgun nerf was to be expected, especially as they removed the option in IA version of Deathwatch. However, it is really strange to just address this one specific weapon and not other similar combos. I was expecting an errata to remove the boltgun from the ranged weapon list as was done in IA.

As for the dedicated transports question, I'm not sure what's going on there. The question is really confusingly worded, and I'm not sure I understand it, or that the FAQ team understood it. It seems to be asking two completely unrelated things at the same time.

Furthermore. I do no understand why sergeant's weapon options needed an errata. Any model already has an access to the melee list.