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Hey guys, I'm just gonna express my feelings towards the new Ork Codex. I don't play Orks, but my friend just got the codex and we read through it and everything. They got a lot of cool stuff, rules tweaks, much needed things, but the codex is SO bland. I hate the layout of the 7th Edition codex. They have Model pictures instead of nicely drawn, fluffy pictures for the unit descriptions. They include Lords of War, which I know are technically part of the game and it makes it easier to be in the book, but a lot of people don't like fighting Lords of War, but now people can use the excuse of "It's in the codex, I'm free to use it all the time, suck it up." Also, the Orks were one of the most unique armies in my opinion. Their weird rules, randomness, everything like that. Now, most of it is gone. My friend said that they're trying to make all the codexes more like Textbooks. Here's your rules, read them, buy models, play. No story, just bland. Me and him both feel like GW's caring level keeps going down. At this point, I'm not even excited about the Necron Codex when it comes out, since it will probably be set up the same way. I'm not planning on quitting 40k, but I'm probably just gonna focus more on Fantasy, or even something not GW related at all, like Warmachine, since everyone's going that way anyway.

What do you guys think of the codex? Yeah, I know I don't play Orks, but it still pains me to see this codex.

I just bought a Malifaux army for my birthday, I'll be paying for it with lots of 40k ebay auctions. Nuff said?

 Boggy Man wrote:
I just bought a Malifaux army for my birthday, I'll be paying for it with lots of 40k ebay auctions. Nuff said?

Nuff said.

krodarklorr wrote:
Their weird rules, randomness, everything like that. Now, most of it is gone.

I want you to post an example.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

krodarklorr wrote:
Their weird rules, randomness, everything like that. Now, most of it is gone.

I want you to post an example.

I don't have the codex in front of me at the moment, but one for sure is the Shokk Attack Gun. It's just a weapon profile with some rules. It used to have a vivid description, and a more devastating effect if you rolled bad, which sucked, sure. But that was the reason my friend always used it, just because of what could happen. No it's just "The model is removed as a casualty."

Also, the Trukk. No more ramshackle chart? That was fun to watch. Now it's replaced by a simple, and somewhat useless rule.

Yeah, they added the Mob Rule chart, which is pretty cool I guess. But when in Fluff does a green tide of orks ever fail leadership? The old rule made a lot more sense.

krodarklorr wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

krodarklorr wrote:
Their weird rules, randomness, everything like that. Now, most of it is gone.

I want you to post an example.

I don't have the codex in front of me at the moment, but one for sure is the Shokk Attack Gun. It's just a weapon profile with some rules. It used to have a vivid description, and a more devastating effect if you rolled bad, which sucked, sure. But that was the reason my friend always used it, just because of what could happen. No it's just "The model is removed as a casualty."

Also, the Trukk. No more ramshackle chart? That was fun to watch. Now it's replaced by a simple, and somewhat useless rule.

Yeah, they added the Mob Rule chart, which is pretty cool I guess. But when in Fluff does a green tide of orks ever fail leadership? The old rule made a lot more sense.

uhh.. the shokk attack gun has randomness. Have you even read the codex? Its the same as it was before.

My largest complaint about the layout is the amount of page flipping I'll have to do while I'm learning the new point costs of things while making lists for game time.

However it did allow for fun pictures and fluff on every page. They also included fun bits in all the descriptions of weapons and wargear. I guess I could always make a summary sheet of the points costs if I get tired of tearing the pages while making lists.

My opinion is that I am disappointed with the product; not because it is weak but because the designers seem to be making completely arbitrary changes rather than a concerted effort to making the army fun or functional.

Like Mob Rule. Whether it is stronger or weaker is irrelevant next to *why* they changed it from a simple, tactically-relevant rule into a completely random table of results.
Or why they felt that Killa Kanz were overpowered enough to warrant morale checks, the loss of DCCWs and then compounded with a price increase. Meanwhile Mek Guns and Lootas were both made cheaper?
Flash Gits are still non-viable in my eyes because they have a clear job, with no guarantee that they will actually be able to do it.
Grots are still non-viable in my eyes because a Slugga gains so much for a minor points increase.
Foot-Nobz are still a clearly-worse option than a Wagon or Bikes. Why did an army famous for both its forcefield technology and melee prowess, lose all of it's Invulnerables in combat. Was the problem that Shootas were too good, or that Sluggas were too weak? Why were Troop-shifts removed from the army?

It just looks like the units that were made better, were only so because they were made cheaper. Like they just slashed the cost rather than addressing what the problems actually were. Units that were legitimately 'fixed' seem to be Weirdboyz and Tankbustas. This is then ruined by the loss of Kanz, Trukks and utterly bizarre costs for the 'Nauts.

It did nothing to address the problem of Mobs being pushed back by excessive firepower, or to fix the over-reliance on KlawNobz. It did nothing to fix the Zzap Gun or Slugga Boy.
It seems to want you to play Unbound by removing FOC-shifts and having such a bloated HS slot, but then also gives what must be the least-appealing Troops slot of any book in the game. So do we just not take mobs of Boyz anymore?

I'm rambling but the whole book is just confusing. I simply do not understand what the game designers must be experiencing for them to 'fix' the army with something like this, and the only thing I keep coming back to is that they are completely detached from the same game that I play.

My issue with this book is GW's way of making useless units more appealing was Nerfs/ price hikes of those units that were used.
1. For those that need an example Sluggaboys weren't being used so they make Shootaboys more expencive.
2. Everyone took the Dakka Jet so they took its double shoots away.
3. Kan wall was heavily used but dreads not so much/ new over costed Naughts. So stop the Kan wall by nerfing them.
4. Everyone used the Deff rolla, so nerf bat the heck out of it. There now they will use somthing else.
Instead of making useless unit good or improving under whelming units GW just makes the good stuff bad. Argh!!!!!

Dragonzord wrote:

krodarklorr wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

krodarklorr wrote:
Their weird rules, randomness, everything like that. Now, most of it is gone.

I want you to post an example.

I don't have the codex in front of me at the moment, but one for sure is the Shokk Attack Gun. It's just a weapon profile with some rules. It used to have a vivid description, and a more devastating effect if you rolled bad, which sucked, sure. But that was the reason my friend always used it, just because of what could happen. No it's just "The model is removed as a casualty."

Also, the Trukk. No more ramshackle chart? That was fun to watch. Now it's replaced by a simple, and somewhat useless rule.

Yeah, they added the Mob Rule chart, which is pretty cool I guess. But when in Fluff does a green tide of orks ever fail leadership? The old rule made a lot more sense.

uhh.. the shokk attack gun has randomness. Have you even read the codex? Its the same as it was before.

He is talking about the two sentences of fluff that each shokk attack gun random result had before the third sentence, which would be the rule.

As for my opinion, the layout is terrible, I can't imagine writing a list where I have to flip through several pages just to find the points cost of some unit I would want to run. I liked the short and clean army list section of the 6th edition and older books, where they would list 4-6 units a page.

Just finished the codex and its a pile of crap very dry.
You now get punished for taking big mobs of boys with the d6 s4 hits if more than 10 and fail a test (depending on chart roll)
No invun save in cc
7pts for an ork with a gun
Seems very against the boys

Vehicles made out bit better with grot riggers but orks are about there boyz and trucks took a bit of a turn for the worse

Don't think its worth buying the codex it's like the ork release slow, dull, messed up and badly thought out

And the cards seem bit bland as well
Could have saved a lot of time here by saying it feels like the dark angel codex all over again but with added kicking the core of the force square in the nuts

Orkhead wrote:

3. Kan wall was heavily used but dreads not so much/ new over costed Naughts. So stop the Kan wall by nerfing them.

I thought this was dead as of 6th ed.?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/577513.page#6503281

Just one example. There are plenty more like it if you look.

Maybe the new dex is not all that bad? The sky already fell a long time ago. No need to get worked up now.

So they went the way of Tyranids?

Reduce the prices of most of the models, but don't fix any of the main problems from the old codex, and nerf the units everyone was spamming because otherwise you are looking at getting tabled Turn 3?

10penceman wrote:
Just finished the codex and its a pile of crap very dry.
You now get punished for taking big mobs of boys with the d6 s4 hits if more than 10 and fail a test (depending on chart roll)
No invun save in cc
7pts for an ork with a gun
Seems very against the boys

Vehicles made out bit better with grot riggers but orks are about there boyz and trucks took a bit of a turn for the worse

Don't think its worth buying the codex it's like the ork release slow, dull, messed up and badly thought out

And the cards seem bit bland as well
Could have saved a lot of time here by saying it feels like the dark angel codex all over again but with added kicking the core of the force square in the nuts

Not So sure about that.

With Orks you get the Ork Warband Formation. Some things to remember about this Formation are

a. Minimum point investment is 464 pts. No upgrades No MegaNobz
b. 6 units of Boyz that can move, run, charge every turn.
c. Taking large units of Boyz will allow you to spread them out blocking your opponents movement.
d. A unit of Nobz is only 3 models

This formation is custom made for boyz and counts as a single detachment. Waaagh! does not apply equally to all Ork models and you can take a combine arms detachment to lump your mek into that do not run or need the Waaagh! to function like Nob Bikers who do not run. There are disappointments but Orks are sure to get supplement Codexs that will flesh them out better. This Codex right now is just a base.

 Happyjew wrote:
So they went the way of Tyranids?

Reduce the prices of most of the models, but don't fix any of the main problems from the old codex, and nerf the units everyone was spamming because otherwise you are looking at getting tabled Turn 3?

Not even that. Lootas and Guns were made even cheaper despite being some of the best units in the old book. It's simply baffling.

Malikjack wrote:
but Orks are sure to get supplement Codexs that will flesh them out better. This Codex right now is just a base.

This is not a good thing.

Nobs in shoota boyz squad cannot have sluggas.

Most of the people that happy with it are all drooling over the layout like a bunch of goobs. In reality the codex took an overall nerf.

Orks struggled in the last edition because of the shooting rules taking models from the front and that shooting got ramped out massively since the days of 4th and 5th Ed. With cover becoming worse, overwatch, multi charging being nearly impossible, wounds from the front, mass access to rerolls (prescience) and the nerf to furious charge the orks had an uphill battle. Then 7th rolled out and cover once again became worse with the loss of area terrain and craters going to 6+.

What Orks needed was the army wide FNP and brutal assaults, and 5pt sluggas 6pt shootas. Instead they lost over all durability with Kff turning into a very small bubble again (news flash that's how it was before the 4th ed codex and it didn't work well then it sure in hell wont now) increased point cost and many units that didn't require it, and some pretty heavy handed nerfs to others. Top that with the removal of fearless and making mobz depend on Nobz massively is just another uphill battle. Then remove some characters and slot swapping and you get a book that is worse then it was.

And sure you can make the warboss in mega armour tank wounds with the luck stikk, with a 2+ rerollable but that is such an annoying gimmick don't expect to be happy about it.

Overall winners in the codex are the mek gunz, but at double the price of the pewter versions its just another kick to the balls.

Add in the normalization of Lords of War and formations and you see GWs goal of splitting books up as much as possible to monetize the hell out of it.

A terrible codex where change that was arbitrary in what codex rules were adapted for 7th edition and nothing that really tempts me to want to play Orks ever again.

Point cost changes don't really make sense at all in some cases and lots of the upgrades that got nerfed seem like a swift kick in the nuts as an extra thank you for your 50 dollar purchase.

The fact that I have to shell out another 50 bucks for the pre order supplement to make my army slightly better is further insult.

 Yonan wrote:

Malikjack wrote:
but Orks are sure to get supplement Codexs that will flesh them out better. This Codex right now is just a base.

This is not a good thing.

Good or not this is the way GW is operating now. In a way it is a return to 3rd in format. It would not surprise me if we see a SM codex and watch Blood Angels, Wolves, Templar, and Dark Angels return to being supplemental codex's again.

''And when we've nerfed every codex, then no-one will be happy. When we re-start the codex creep, everyone will breathe an orgasmic sigh of relief and rush out to buy the newest cheese.''


Step 1: Nerfbat
Step 2: Codex Creep
Step 3: Profit

 Ravenous D wrote:

What Orks needed was the army wide FNP

hahahaha. no. just no.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

krodarklorr wrote:
Their weird rules, randomness, everything like that. Now, most of it is gone.

I want you to post an example.

well I know I liked the trukk ramshackle rules FAR better than roll a 6 to turn a pen to a glance. str 3 hits were way better than str 4 hits. and the random chance to end up somewhere else was funny. Psychic random abilities might have been less reliable, but were more lulzy for sure.

Dragonzord wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

What Orks needed was the army wide FNP

hahahaha. no. just no.

Necrons maybe. But Orks no.

 WarOne wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

What Orks needed was the army wide FNP

hahahaha. no. just no.

Necrons maybe. But Orks no.

imagine 180+ boyz with FNP... god that would be the most broken thing ever.

GW can't win with layout. I have seen so many threads of people complaining about how crap the old layout was because the rules/fluff were listed in one place and the points another. Now GW has gone "Okay...well then how about we put everything on one page like you want" and now they get crap for that. There's no layout that's going to please everyone though I'm sure someone has already/will post how someone else has done it better.

Personally I liked the old layout and blame the jerks who complained about it for the change far more then I blame GW for it.

Dragonzord wrote:

 WarOne wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

What Orks needed was the army wide FNP

hahahaha. no. just no.

Necrons maybe. But Orks no.

imagine 180+ boyz with FNP... god that would be the most broken thing ever.

Its not broken at all. Iron hands marines get 6+ FNP as a chapter tactic without being even close to OP.

I see a book of nothing but problems. No solutions.

How do I build a list to deal with massed IG tanks/wyverns?
How do I build a list to deal with centurion stars?
How do I build a list to fight wave serpents?
How do I build a list to stop massed missilesides?
How do I build a list to fight invisible spawn tide?
How do I build a list to compete with beastar?
How do I build a list to hurt dronestar/daemon flying circus?

I don't see anything but weaknesses.

Massed orks are more vulnerable than ever in a game where thunderfire cannons/wyverns are the weapons of choice for dealing with hordes.

Battlewagons got more expensive for something that was already far easier to kill than armor 14 would suggest (open topped armor 12 side vehicles who have massive side profiles).

Moral is now a bigger problem than ever before. Even kanz are going to run away. Things that 90% of the other armies laugh are HUGE problems for us. Pinning, fear, etc.

Big gunz are the biggest culprit. Toughness 7 is strong, but not invincible. Kill a few grots and they will see themselves off the table. At least they are cheap.

Which leads to the problem of heavy support bloat. If the community widely accepts multiple force org.... well good, I guess (although it helps other armies with far more effective choices than more than our army). If multiple force org is rejected by the community.... heaven help us.

At the end of the day, the ork codex has nothing that turns an 'okay' or 'great' unit into THE REAL ULTIMATE POWER like the other books have. Orks have nothing to 'smooth' the dice out or to turn things from a mathematical probability to a mathematical certainty. We don't have army wide rerolls. And sadly, since 6th ed... its really the only way to do business.

Its first vs third world here. Have's and have not's. You either have all the rerolls, or you don't. And the power gulf will only widen with time (as more and more imperial armies get 'updated' and can battlebrother each other).

scimitar wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:

 WarOne wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

What Orks needed was the army wide FNP

hahahaha. no. just no.

Necrons maybe. But Orks no.

imagine 180+ boyz with FNP... god that would be the most broken thing ever.

Its not broken at all. Iron hands marines get 6+ FNP as a chapter tactic without being even close to OP.

Do iron hands get 6 point models in large numbers?

The more I read the codex, the more I despise it, even though I should give it a chance still.

I guess if I were to just come out and say it. I think this is what is the 5 things wrong with the codex.


1. No cybork body for anyone who is not a HQ and only very limited HQ's get it. I beleive only Ghaszksull and Mad doc get it. Might be a couple of others but without Cybork Body. Even Meganobs are a waste of points.

2. Snikrot no longer can take a HQ with him. This is EXTREMELY AGGRAVATING!!! This was one of my most Charished and beloved tactics. Hold thraka in reserves and have Snikrot bring him in on the back edge of the board.

I did this once at an ard boys semi finals and Not a single person in the building ever even HEARD of this tactic! No one ever used Snikrot or Kommandos! The Judge had to look up 3 different sets of rules and I had to explain to him why it was possible! I did not do well in the tourny, BUT, I turned a lot of heads that day! It was one of my most epic moments during 5th edition.

3. No New HQ's and Not enough new units. - This is a serious drawback, especially if you consider us Loosing two HQ choices. You could argue that Snikrot and Badrukk are in now but that is not good enough.

4. Zagstrukk lost his most unique ability ever. The ability to assault after a deep strike is why people even considered taking Storm boys in the first place.
Now storm boys will never see the table again. If they were going to take away his one and only unique ability. They should had just completely removed him from the game. No one is going to buy storm boys now and no one will be able to justify buying a Zagstrukk anymore. All he is, is a Stormboy Nob with a power claw and nothing else.

5. AV of Ork Meks and vehicles is out of Wack! A Stompa should NOT have 13 13 12. It should have 14 14 12. Why does a Stompa have the same AV as a Gorkanought? Kill kans are 11's, Deff Dread is bigger and has 12's, Gorka is bigger and has 13's and Stompa is TWICE as big as that and still has the same AV?!!? What the Grog is this?

It is little unbalanced things like that.

Lot's of good stuff still though I guess.