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I am thinking about starting Warmachine, specifically a convergence of cyriss army.

I have a few questions regarding gameplay,

1) Compared to other games I played (Infinity and 40k, I am terrible at both) how do they differ tactics wise? If I am not an okay tactical mind will I hate the game?

2) Is it okay if I bring units I like only or do I have to always bring units I do not like for some reason (aesthetic mainly) just to stay competitive?

3) I know the tagline of the game is "play like I have a pair" is it okay for someone like me who plays for fun to get in.

4) Do the rules change a lot?

5) On the topic of cyriss, If I do start cyriss will I have a hard time learning the army/game?

6) How much is start up cost and how much would I spend minimally to have a full army? In Canadian I prefer.

I'll be answering spottily as I peer out the window with my girlfriend's cat for the Auspost van to arrive with 250 or so worth of Khador

1) Hrrm if you hate having to think several steps ahead, then yeah, you won't like it. But then I can't imagine that either 40K, Infinity, or really any tabletop game would be fun if you dislike all tactical thinking? I dunno, seems like an odd choice of hobby if you dislike the fundamental thought process surrounding it. But it certainly does require some serious thinking at times, imagining distances, where you can get to while taking the least free strikes, who to activate first to buff who to send where to kill who, stuff like that. So it can be pretty tricky, and if you don't like that you may well not have that much fun, which would be a real shame.

2) I have an entire army built around some of the arguably 'worst' infantry in the game, but they actually do pretty well against some lists. Obviously, some I would never drop them against, but that's why WM/H often has a 2 list format In case one list stands no chance, drop your second one. So my Trencher list is great fun to play, but just stands absolutely no chance whatsoever at all against something like a Ravagore heavy army with Lylyth2, so I'd drop my other list against them, which would be whoever I decided I wanted (I dunno, eCaine or something, I haven't thought this example out really sorry)

3) To be honest, I've only ever seen that tagline on the internet, usually by people complaining about it, and in their book on that page 5 or whatever. It has never, ever come up in actual play for me, be it in tournaments, league games or just for fun. It usually, in my experience, gets interpreted as play like you always have a chance to win which, given how Steamroller works, you really do. There's always the chance you can force an opponent to clock out by presenting too many options, or get a caster kill, or grind them down on scenario, or any of a bunch of ways if the game starts off poorly for you. I really enjoy that aspect of it.

4) I'm not certain what you mean by this question, do you mean are there regular updates to the base rules? Or do they release new models often? Or what....

5) Cyriss have some mechanics that work a bit differently to the rest of the factions, which necessitate some order of activation figuring out, but apart from that they work the same as everyone else. So get that order of activation down (activate this jack, do it's thing, give it's focus to the next one, etc) and don't get it wrong (activate one jack first, forget it doesn't have focus yet, do it's thing, fail a bit because you didn't have the focus necessary, then activate the one you meant to first), you'll be fine. And order of activation stuff doesn't take too long to figure out usually.

6) Start up really isn't too bad. Cyriss apparently has a lot of negativity about their battlebox, which is the usual start point for a faction, and since I've never gotten one/seen one I can't comment on how accurate the complaints are, but they seem pretty widespread. On the other hand, the rest of their models look really good to me, particularly the Iron Mother, so it doesn't bother me over much. That isn't meant to scare you away, just be aware that if the casting is bad on them you may need to put in replacement orders, but with PP that is really easy. Open up the website, go to lodge a claim, quick blurb about what's wrong, a few weeks later you get a parcel in the mail with what's wrong with it. No issues at all, at least in my experience. For price in general, I like it. I collect some reasonably pricey armies (Trencher heavy army for Cygnar that is all metal, so a little bit out ouch, but I love those models so damn much), but I can then use those units in all my other armies for that faction, so it's not that bad really. My Khador army is a worse example because I've gone for 3 all metal units, 2 of which are the most expensive in the game, as well as a colossal. so yeah, that's a pretty bad skew, probably similar to building an army out of those 5 man boxes of finecast from GW. But yeah, by and large, not too bad. Unless you get addicted and buy everything, but then it's no different to any other game that you do that with (like Infinity in my case)

 MRPYM wrote:
I am thinking about starting Warmachine, specifically a convergence of cyriss army.

I have a few questions regarding gameplay,

1) Compared to other games I played (Infinity and 40k, I am terrible at both) how do they differ tactics wise? If I am not an okay tactical mind will I hate the game?
Its a lot more intense than the others where a single move can make the difference between victory and defeat. Even if you're not that strategically minded, you can still win if the make a mistake like leaving an opening to their caster. I won my first game like that. I use Convergence as well and he got cocky because he was winning and my Iron Mother arch noded a spell and I used all my focus for two pumped up spells and barely killed his caster.

2) Is it okay if I bring units I like only or do I have to always bring units I do not like for some reason (aesthetic mainly) just to stay competitive?
It's better to choose a style of fighting that fits your personal style and go with that. Each faction has numerous ways to play, Convergence especially. Figure out your style and then figure out which models to use. Every unit is useful. It's how you use them together that will determine how good your army is. Check out Warcollge for detailed info on each unit and how best to use them.

3) I know the tagline of the game is "play like I have a pair" is it okay for someone like me who plays for fun to get in.
I think they just mean, play aggressively and you might win. (Like my above example.) Don't worry about it too much. I'm not a very competitive fellow and I do alright.

4) Do the rules change a lot?
No. It's been around for like ten years and we're only on the 2nd edition, which was beta tested thoroughly by the public. I think we're going to be in this edition for a while, and if not, they'll let you know long in advance.

5) On the topic of cyriss, If I do start cyriss will I have a hard time learning the army/game?
The #1 thing to learn that is different, ESPECIALLY for Cyriss, is the order of activation. Who you activate and when. There's no movement and then shooting phase. Every unit does their complete turn at once. Convergence has this thing where if a vector/jack uses a focus point, you can send one focus to a friendly jack. So if you do your order right, one vector/jack can end up with several focus for free and go on a rampage. But really, once you figure that out, the game's remarkably intuitive.

6) How much is start up cost and how much would I spend minimally to have a full army? In Canadian I prefer.
I don't know Canadian. Start with the battle box. its a 15 point army that's pretty well balanced. Then add what you like. I'd say $200 will get you a decent sized force and the players I know will change up their armies to match your points no problem. You don't need any dex. The cards come with the unit's stats. The rulebook would be helpful and has a lot of cool fluff and overviews of each faction and some of their units.

I hope that helps. If you have any other questions, just ask. Convergence is my favorite faction.
I

 motyak wrote:
I'll be answering spottily as I peer out the window with my girlfriend's cat for the Auspost van to arrive with 250 or so worth of Khador

1) Hrrm if you hate having to think several steps ahead, then yeah, you won't like it. But then I can't imagine that either 40K, Infinity, or really any tabletop game would be fun if you dislike all tactical thinking? I dunno, seems like an odd choice of hobby if you dislike the fundamental thought process surrounding it. But it certainly does require some serious thinking at times, imagining distances, where you can get to while taking the least free strikes, who to activate first to buff who to send where to kill who, stuff like that. So it can be pretty tricky, and if you don't like that you may well not have that much fun, which would be a real shame.

2) I have an entire army built around some of the arguably 'worst' infantry in the game, but they actually do pretty well against some lists. Obviously, some I would never drop them against, but that's why WM/H often has a 2 list format In case one list stands no chance, drop your second one. So my Trencher list is great fun to play, but just stands absolutely no chance whatsoever at all against something like a Ravagore heavy army with Lylyth2, so I'd drop my other list against them, which would be whoever I decided I wanted (I dunno, eCaine or something, I haven't thought this example out really sorry)

3) To be honest, I've only ever seen that tagline on the internet, usually by people complaining about it, and in their book on that page 5 or whatever. It has never, ever come up in actual play for me, be it in tournaments, league games or just for fun. It usually, in my experience, gets interpreted as play like you always have a chance to win which, given how Steamroller works, you really do. There's always the chance you can force an opponent to clock out by presenting too many options, or get a caster kill, or grind them down on scenario, or any of a bunch of ways if the game starts off poorly for you. I really enjoy that aspect of it.

4) I'm not certain what you mean by this question, do you mean are there regular updates to the base rules? Or do they release new models often? Or what....
Do the rules fundamentally change every new edition/how long is an edition change?

5) Cyriss have some mechanics that work a bit differently to the rest of the factions, which necessitate some order of activation figuring out, but apart from that they work the same as everyone else. So get that order of activation down (activate this jack, do it's thing, give it's focus to the next one, etc) and don't get it wrong (activate one jack first, forget it doesn't have focus yet, do it's thing, fail a bit because you didn't have the focus necessary, then activate the one you meant to first), you'll be fine. And order of activation stuff doesn't take too long to figure out usually.

6) Start up really isn't too bad. Cyriss apparently has a lot of negativity about their battlebox, which is the usual start point for a faction, and since I've never gotten one/seen one I can't comment on how accurate the complaints are, but they seem pretty widespread. On the other hand, the rest of their models look really good to me, particularly the Iron Mother, so it doesn't bother me over much. That isn't meant to scare you away, just be aware that if the casting is bad on them you may need to put in replacement orders, but with PP that is really easy. Open up the website, go to lodge a claim, quick blurb about what's wrong, a few weeks later you get a parcel in the mail with what's wrong with it. No issues at all, at least in my experience. For price in general, I like it. I collect some reasonably pricey armies (Trencher heavy army for Cygnar that is all metal, so a little bit out ouch, but I love those models so damn much), but I can then use those units in all my other armies for that faction, so it's not that bad really. My Khador army is a worse example because I've gone for 3 all metal units, 2 of which are the most expensive in the game, as well as a colossal. so yeah, that's a pretty bad skew, probably similar to building an army out of those 5 man boxes of finecast from GW. But yeah, by and large, not too bad. Unless you get addicted and buy everything, but then it's no different to any other game that you do that with (like Infinity in my case)

In order:

 MRPYM wrote:


1) Compared to other games I played (Infinity and 40k, I am terrible at both) how do they differ tactics wise? If I am not an okay tactical mind will I hate the game?

The game definitely revolves around precise movement and good strategy. I know folks who are terrible at both and still enjoy the game, but if you find yourself getting upset/discouraged by losing early and often, this may not be the game for you.

2) Is it okay if I bring units I like only or do I have to always bring units I do not like for some reason (aesthetic mainly) just to stay competitive?

You can take any models you want in any list you want. There are superior options in specific situations, but nothing is entirely useless. Will the models you like together be guaranteed to be competitive however? No, the game is built around synergy, and some models have no synergy with each other to speak of.

3) I know the tagline of the game is "play like I have a pair" is it okay for someone like me who plays for fun to get in.

I've been off the competitive scene for a while now, playing oddball and fluffy lists that I find fun, and your meta will decide how competitive/casual games will be. But for the most part, like any game, you'll have as much fun as you make of it. Page 5 (the tagline you referenced) is more about playing a good game, winning graciously, losing valiantly, and taking the opportunity to go for the throat when it presents itself.

4) Do the rules change a lot?

Not really. There are updates almost every new anthology book (colossals ((read:giant warjacks), battle engines, etc.), as well as minor fixes to misprints or rule clarifications (the errata document), but you're unlikely to see an edition change anytime soon. EDIT There were some big changes in the edition shift, but the majority of the game mechanics stayed the same. Abilities, costs, and rule interactions were the major changes.

5) On the topic of cyriss, If I do start cyriss will I have a hard time learning the army/game?

They have a few extra rules, but I think you'll learn them using them fine. There is a lot of room for mistakes, but that is true with any army. I've taught people to play with convergence, I think you'll be fine.

6) How much is start up cost and how much would I spend minimally to have a full army? In Canadian I prefer.

To start up? $50 (all prices American) or less, depending on where you get your battle box from (which is what I recommend starting with). You can build up to competitive levels (35 to 50 points) for $200-300 dollars for most factions. There will be higher for specific factions/builds/lists, but that's a good estimate.

Good luck!

 MRPYM wrote:
I am thinking about starting Warmachine, specifically a convergence of cyriss army.

I have a few questions regarding gameplay,

1) Compared to other games I played (Infinity and 40k, I am terrible at both) how do they differ tactics wise? If I am not an okay tactical mind will I hate the game?

2) Is it okay if I bring units I like only or do I have to always bring units I do not like for some reason (aesthetic mainly) just to stay competitive?

3) I know the tagline of the game is "play like I have a pair" is it okay for someone like me who plays for fun to get in.

4) Do the rules change a lot?

5) On the topic of cyriss, If I do start cyriss will I have a hard time learning the army/game?

6) How much is start up cost and how much would I spend minimally to have a full army? In Canadian I prefer.

1. I find the game much more tactical than 40K. I don't want to start a bashing thread, but I found 40K to be more about what you bring and buckets of dice. I will readily admit I stopped playing in 5th and haven't looked back.

2. You need synergy in lists. You cannot just grab everything that looks cool or is "good" and toss it into an army. If you have ever played Magic, building an army is much more like building a Magic Deck. You need things that make each other stronger.

3. You can play however you like. But the game is designed around competitive play. But that means in casual games you have a really tight ruleset and little to no rules "discussions". IMO, it makes even fun play better because you can focus on actually playing, not arguing.

4. Not really. WM/H has some of the best and tightest rules around. MK 2 has been around for awhile and likely will be around for awhile. Also, PP releases new rules occasionally (like new abilities, models). They also release a yearly FAQ/Errata that clarifies and sometimes changes things slightly. But unless you are playing at a more competitive level you don't need to worry too much. I tend to do a quick glance of the Errata and forums when it is released and shrug my shoulders and go back to playing.

5. I am not familiar with COC.

6. I have built a couple decent 35 point armies for less than $200 US. PP makes getting into the game pretty cheap and easy with their battleboxes and cheap rulebooks. Some units are pretty expensive, but there are cheaper ways to build and the plastics that are available are also much cheaper. Armies are cheap enough that everyone I know who plays with any sort of regularity has at least two armies. I have 4 and a 5th being worked on. Price-wise it isn't too bad to get into compared to other games. And if you want to switch or try out another faction it usually isn't prohibitively expensive.

I don't think you'd like Warmachine all that much. It sounds like you're looking for a more laid back, "whatever or whatever" kind of game and Warmachine is nothing if not intense.You've also homed in on what is IMO the worst army for newbies.

 MRPYM wrote:

1) Compared to other games I played (Infinity and 40k, I am terrible at both) how do they differ tactics wise? If I am not an okay tactical mind will I hate the game?

Warmachine has a very high learning curve. There is a lot decisions to be made in this game, nobody is perfect, I mean you still see the finals matches for major tournaments where one or more players made obvious mistakes that afterwards even they see. However this game is more tactically involved then others I have played, which to me is one of reasons I love it.

 MRPYM wrote:
2) Is it okay if I bring units I like only or do I have to always bring units I do not like for some reason (aesthetic mainly) just to stay competitive?

I don't know on this one, it really depends on what stuff fits your fancy. Army building in this game is alot about building strong groups of models that work together. There are a lot of solos and models that buff other units (sometimes all units or only certain types), some factions focus on this more than others. It is hard to answer this without knowing your aesthetic, but this is NOT a game where you just can pick any stuff you think looks cool and put in an army and expect it to work.

 MRPYM wrote:
3) I know the tagline of the game is "play like I have a pair" is it okay for someone like me who plays for fun to get in.

Honestly that 100% is dependent on who you will be playing against, some people play this game for tournament play at cons others only casually.

 MRPYM wrote:
4) Do the rules change a lot?

There are only two editions for this game and there is zero talk about MKIII, and that is meaningful coming from a company that previews upcoming stuff months in advance and presentations at their con (lock and load) every year about what is coming up next. Yea they release a new book for both warmachine and hordes every year but that mainly just has a some new models for every faction and sometimes a new unit type or subtype that has maybe a paragraph of rules associated with it.

 MRPYM wrote:
5) On the topic of cyriss, If I do start cyriss will I have a hard time learning the army/game?

Cyriss I wouldn't suggest for new players unless you really like the aesthetic. Mainly they are an army that is marketed towards more veteran warmachine players as a second or third faction. They have some minor rules that makes them different from the others and a different aesthetic as well. They don't have nearly the same amount of options as other factions and won't be getting stuff for later releases, but this also means that they are smaller investment for someone who already owns one of the other factions and offers something different from what the big four warmachine factions do (cyngar, menoth, Khador, and Cryx). That said if you looked at them and decided this is exactly what you are looking for then go ahead.

 MRPYM wrote:
6) How much is start up cost and how much would I spend minimally to have a full army? In Canadian I prefer.

The intial minimum buy in cost would be just the battlebox, which comes with the quick start rules one warcaster and 3 jacks for $50.

I think the most important thing is you only have to carry 5 dice (6 max)

Bullockist wrote:
I think the most important thing is you only have to carry 5 dice (6 max)

Unless you blight bomb Terminus after a big feat turn, after his souls have turned into focus, and if he camped it. That could be 12 dice or so

Motyak ,if you keep finding corner cases like that we could make a whole virtual room in no time at all.

Bullockist wrote:
Motyak ,if you keep finding corner cases like that we could make a whole virtual room in no time at all.

Ha I know, I was poking fun, the was meant to convey that The most that I see regularly is a charging weaponmaster with battle lust on him/her/them, so 5D6.

Thanks for all your advice, I just bought some miniatures and the cyriss book. I will see where this takes me.

 motyak wrote:

Bullockist wrote:
Motyak ,if you keep finding corner cases like that we could make a whole virtual room in no time at all.

Ha I know, I was poking fun, the was meant to convey that The most that I see regularly is a charging weaponmaster with battle lust on him/her/them, so 5D6.

It did convey that and that's why I was mumbling about virtual rooms made out of corner cases.

1) This is not 40k, and you can't really walk in and just start winning like champ. There is more tactical decisions to be made here, and I firmly believe the game is harder to master than say, 40k. This is no slight, though, which I will explain in #3. Just know that you can't simply follow a net list and pwn face.

2) Nearly every unit in the game has a use. I play Scyrah, and there are only a couple units that never get played, and that is usually because there is something in the army that does something better for a given strategy. That being said, you may lose a little bit of a competitive edge if you take something not perfectly suited, but based on your statements I would guess you don't care about being highly competitive, anyway, leading to point 3...

3) The game is VERY fun. I live in a small area so when I was in a larger city (military orders) I played a week and got my face beat in. I had more fun losing all week than I ever had winning in 40k. Why? The community is great, people wanted to help me out, gave me great advice, and now I still lose but put up a better fight ;-)

4) They had a major update after like 8 years (?) when they moved to MKII, but the rules are typically on a unit's card, and aside from occasional errata, no, they don't change. The rules are very tight... clear, easy to understand, and fairly well balanced.

5) All armies have their personality, Cyriss is a newer army and has some neat mechanics. That being said, pick what you like, you can win with anything.

6) I can't answer in Canadian, but if you just want to play you will not spend NEAR as much as you would in 40k just to field a competitive list (or two). Like anything, though, you can go broke playing W/H if you are like me, buying everything.

W/H is a very different game from 40k. It is more balanced overall, but not everyone likes the fluff or appearance. Most of the people I play with don't care about steampunk or fluff at all, they play for the tight rules and fun competitive play the game offers. Of course, you can also play fluffy (and still be competitive), as there is an advancing storyline in W/H as well, whereas 40K is a bit stagnant.

In the end, it comes down to what you want from your game. Some people simply love the fluff and models of 40K (or whatever their chosen game is) and play for their own reasons. I play both for different reasons, myself. Good luck on whatever you decide.

 MRPYM wrote:
Thanks for all your advice, I just bought some miniatures and the cyriss book. I will see where this takes me.

What did you get and how do you intend to run them?
If you have any questions, just ask!

3. "Play like you have a pair"
Please do. This has nothing to do with if you've got a pair, whether literally or otherwise. What this is is quite simply the best tactical advice anyone can ever give you in Warmachine.

 Blood Hawk wrote:

Warmachine has a very high learning curve.

I disagree (speaking as a still new player). There are a few hurdles associated with a game of 10+ pages of rules to get over. After this the learning curve, especially if you have past experience with wargames, is fairly kind and generous. It's just that the impact of skill in warmachine is higher and less based on luck, which means that the difficulty is largely generated by your opponent and not the game - but as for the game and mechanics part I could mention a host of games that have a far steeper learning curve. For example, live action roleplay. Waaaay too much improv social interaction for people like me.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 MRPYM wrote:
Thanks for all your advice, I just bought some miniatures and the cyriss book. I will see where this takes me.

What did you get and how do you intend to run them?
If you have any questions, just ask!

I bought a galvanizer, lucant the warcaster and a optiex something. I have no idea how to run them.

Going to go over the rules tonight and get a better idea.

I am going to do a demo game this tuesday.

 MRPYM wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 MRPYM wrote:
Thanks for all your advice, I just bought some miniatures and the cyriss book. I will see where this takes me.

What did you get and how do you intend to run them?
If you have any questions, just ask!

I bought a galvanizer, lucant the warcaster and a optiex something. I have no idea how to run them.

Going to go over the rules tonight and get a better idea.

I am going to do a demo game this tuesday.

You need something that packs a punch. You'll need a heavy Vector or two and/or some infantry. Do you know the style of fighting you prefer?

 MWHistorian wrote:

 MRPYM wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 MRPYM wrote:
Thanks for all your advice, I just bought some miniatures and the cyriss book. I will see where this takes me.

What did you get and how do you intend to run them?
If you have any questions, just ask!

I bought a galvanizer, lucant the warcaster and a optiex something. I have no idea how to run them.

Going to go over the rules tonight and get a better idea.

I am going to do a demo game this tuesday.

You need something that packs a punch. You'll need a heavy Vector or two and/or some infantry. Do you know the style of fighting you prefer?

The demo will give an idea on how to run them and a better understanding of what i want. I only bought that much because I like lucant and if I do not like the game I could sell them off easily.

1) Playing Warmachine is, in many ways, like setting up dominoes.

Lots of games end after a rube-gold burg machine-esk assassination run. And even more have ended because the player attempting it activated things in the wrong order(or misjudged a distance by half an inch) and the whole thing comes crashing down.

The game is all about planning ahead. Turn 1, you jockey for position. Turn 2, you have the first clash. Shooting and maybe even melee, but still its all about positioning. Turn 3, the first real turn of combat. And yet more positioning, often to set up an assassination run or to take control of a zone/objective. Turn 4-5 is usually carrying out that plan. Turn 5-6 is when you are either in clean-up or damage control model. And if you failed at your earlier positioning, there may not be much you can do in the later turns.

2) Yes, almost any unit can be made to shine. Just not every combo. You may like X and Y, and both can be amazing. But X+Y might be crap.

3) I'd hope that playing your hardest would also be incredibly fun. This game is fast paced and cutthroat, which is actually quite fun when both players are going for it. In short, everyone plays for fun. And playing a good clean cutthroat game is extremely fun. Hard fought victories and defeats are the best games. So play for fun, while going for the throat. They're not mutually exclusive, unlike what we might say of 40k.

4) No. We've had 2 editions total, and there is no sign of the current one going away. Nor is there any need for a new edition really.

5) Harder than most. Especially if you aren't all that hot on playing strategically. Cyriss has more of the Domino effect than most of the other factions. One of their main schticks is daisy chaining focus around which is all about order of activations and planning ahead.

6) Not sure what it would translate into Canadian money, but you can get a nice 50 point army in the US for roughly $250-300. Depending on what is in it. Jack heavy lists will be cheaper, and Cyriss is very jack(vector) heavy.

Bit of warning on what you bought. Its all good stuff, but nothing that would actually be playable. You'll need about 3 more vectors to have a real army. You bought a Warcaster and 2 things of support. No good for even a small 15 point game. And what you bought comes to 2 points.

 MRPYM wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 MRPYM wrote:
Thanks for all your advice, I just bought some miniatures and the cyriss book. I will see where this takes me.

What did you get and how do you intend to run them?
If you have any questions, just ask!

I bought a galvanizer, lucant the warcaster and a optiex something. I have no idea how to run them.

Going to go over the rules tonight and get a better idea.

I am going to do a demo game this tuesday.

You'll want to get the 4-legged heavy jack kit and magnetize it.
Also maybe a box of Reciprocators. They work really well with Lucant.

Unfortunatly, you bought things that are mainly support/repair units and a defensive caster, so they won't be killing much, but they are solid units. The optifex directive especially will go into most of your lists.

I wrote a summary of Cyriss units in this thread, and theres a lot of advice for starting the army as well:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/602113.page

While I don't actually play the game, as somebody who is also thinking about taking the leap I offer the following.

In the 11 pages of the Warmachine YMDC there isn't a single thread which has gone beyond 1 page*.

This is completely foreign to me as the 40k YMDC forum is packed with threads that go on endlessly until being mercifully locked.

This level of quality in the rules is very appealing.

*Technically there was one multi-page thread but The OP asked many questions in it so I didn't count it.

It helps that the rules are quite black and white, and the couple rules which aren't are well known.