Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am just getting into this so bear with me. My local hobby store tends to run 500 pt so I am working on making an army.

EDIT: I have made some adjustments to the list. For now, I am including a Assault Squad, but the points could also be used for a Predator tank with HB sponsons or a TFC.

HQ -
Librarian (Psyker Master Level 2, Chapter Relic - The Bones of Osrak) - 115 pts

Tactical Squad (Power Sword on Sergeant, ML, Flamer) - 175 pts

Scout Squad (Land Speeder Storm) - 100 pts

Assault Squad (Power Fist on Sergeant) - 110 pts

Total - 500 pts

for 65 points maybe add a squad of scout snipers. I think that will run you 60 points. Then give the other sergeant a better CC weapon I guess.

Tactical Squad 1 was purchased on eBay preassembled, but I can certainly hack the Sergeants hand off and give him something a little better for close combat. Would upgrading the sergeants to Veteran Sergeants be a good use of points instead of adding the scouts?

why not take 1 missile launcher, take two rhinos, and run combat squads.

First, welcome to Dakka!

Minor bookkeeping thing: don’t post individual upgrade points, just squad totals. Full forum rules are in the sticky at the top of the page.

It’s hard to make a balanced list for marines at 500. My normal formula is HQ, full tac squad, sniper scouts, and then a fun unit depending on my mood.

The bases you would like to cover are:
Get scoring units to objectives and keep them there for as long os you need to.
Have a way of dealing with:
Heavy armor
Light armor/transports
Monstrous creatures
Hordes
Flyers

At low points you are probably not going to see a lot of these things, but you might.

What kind of army do you want to be playing at 1,500 or 2,000 points? Gunline? Mech? Drop pod? Some mix, or other type? If you have a vision of a drop pod army, recommending a rhino to you now is just going to be a waste of cash. Although, in a vacuum, would be my suggestion based on what you have. What catches your eye? What imagery excites you? The SM codex is very flexible, and there are very few bad choices. Yes, there are stronger builds to be found, but also no reason not to take what you like and build around it.

ML/F is the classic tactical loadout. It’s a jack of all trades set up, and not the best at anything. I field one almost every game, but I’m old fashioned like that.

The default internet answer for “what to give your tactical sergeants” is a combi that matches the squad. Or nothing. There are some who advocate CC weapons, and there are times I wished I sprung for one, but for the most part, it’s not worth the points.

As crimson fists you might want to look into HBs for squads you plan on moving up. Bolter drill helps with the snap firing, and when you get where you are going, the extra firepower can be nice. Getting some melta on the table can help for when heavy armor shows up. Even if it’s just a melta bomb on a sarge/HQ or two. If someone puts a Land Raider down, what’s your answer? While I love the ML, it can be worth investing the points to swap it for a lascannon if you plan on sitting back and shooting all game.

Thanks for the pointers on how to list armies. I will get it right in the future.

I am definitely getting myself a squad of scout snipers now, that seems to be the running theme with people. I may do what you said and field my librarian, Tactical Squad 1, and squad of snipers. The remaining points could get me a Dreadnought in a drop pod, which would be nice. Honestly, could field any number of things. I could get the Dreadnought and throw the Tac Squad in a Rhino as well. I like having options, and I could definitely make several different formations using that extra 170 pts. I am not overly concerned with the cash investment as of right now, since I already have a Dreadnought, a Tactical Squad, and the Librarian. I also have a battleforce with a Tactical Squad, Scout Squad, Assault Squad, and a Rhino on the way. Definitely will have no shortage of options.

What I have thought out now is the following:

Librarian with Staff and Book - 90 pts
Tactical Squad with Missile Launcher and Flamer - 180 pts
Scout Squad with Sniper Rifles - 60 pts

Total so far - 330 pts

That would leave a "fun space" of 170 pts which could be used for the following:
Dreadnought with a Drop Pod
Dreadnought, and Rhino for Tactical Squad
Razorback with Combat Squad(with Missile Launcher)

Thanks again.

EDIT: Just realized that the Battleforce comes with the standard issue scouts, not scout snipers. That makes me a sad panda. I may have to work on that.

All is not lost. Look into getting a land speeder storm. With your Fist's chapter tactics, you can fly a five man bolter scout squad around the table and do drive by shootings and grab objectives anywhere you need to. This will be a massive advantage in the maelstrom missions where suddenly you need to seize something way over there. And your chapter is one of the best for pulling this trick, as bolter drill will help with your BS3.

Sniper scouts are great for camping your home objective, preferably in cover. They don't cost a lot of points, have the range to do something besides just hide, and can be hard to dislodge from their spot. In the old missions, this is important, as you generally have an objective in you deployment zone that someone needs to sit on.

Both types of scouts let you paint something besides power armor. After churning out a squad or five of basic marines, you will realize how critical this is to your army.

Welcome to playing Space Marines, and Imperial Fists!

I would use the Sentinels of Terra supplement which just gives you "close range bolter drill" (twin linked bolters at half range!)

Now, for the units.. A Libby is good at a low points, and so are bolter scouts. For 100 points, bolter scouts in a land speeder storm w/heavy flamer are one of the best units you can take.. Twin linked S4 shooting, flamer and blind blast, 2 objective secured units, etc... So good! Also consider something like a TFC that can reach out and harass their troops.

What about something like this?

Librarian
Tac Squad (5) - rhino, melta
Scout Squad (5) - bolters, land speeder storm w/heavy flamer, combi-flamer
TFC
Dev squad (5) - lascannon x2

Lots of bolters, range, mobility, and tank hunting devs.. All things IF are good at.

I had not even thought about a Land Speeder Storm. I will pick one of those up. If I do the Sentinels of Terra, I will probably give the Librarian the Bones of Osrak to beef him up a bit. Him (115 pts), Tactical Squad 1 (180 pts), and a Landspeeder Storm with Scouts(100 pts) gives me 395 pts. That leaves me with 105 pts to work with. I could get a Predator with Autocannon and Lascannon Sponsons for 105 pts, or a Predator with twin-linked Lascannons for 100 pts. Since I will have them, I could run my Assault Squad, especially with Close Range Bolter Drill. It seems I will have a number of options, least. Kinda need some Lascannons somewhere, since I would be way too close range focused.

Sternguard. Easily one of the best all-rounders using combi Bolters and special ammunition. Take a thought to your meta to determine plasma, Melta or Flamer but yeah, they are an amazing trump card and in 500pt lists can control half the table themselves. However, they don't get the Chapter Tactics of Bolters. Bit of a downside but worth it if you ask me. However, the land speeder with Bolters of all sorts does sound very attractive. Two 5-7 man tac squads, land speeder or Sternguard and a Dreadnaught covers anti-infantry and anti light armor which is going to be the common things in 500pt games.

I am definitely looking at adding Sternguards once I get into 750 pts. However, I don't own any of them as of right now, and apparently they aren't cheap, pointswise or cashwise. They do look awesome as hell though. RIght now, I have a Librarian with a staff and book, Dreadnought with a HF and Assault Cannon, and a Tactical Squad. In about a week and a half, I am going to have a Rhino, a second Tactical Squad, a Scout Squad, and an Assault Squad. Beyond that, I am probably going to get a Land Speeder Storm, since it augments the Scout Squad and lends itself well to the Chapter Tactics, so I can justify the money on that one.

So what I am looking at right now is:
Librarian - 115pts
Tactical Squad - 180 pts
Scout Squad(with Land Speeder Storm) - 100 pts

For the last bit of points, I can squeeze in an Assault squad or a Combat Squad in a Rhino. I am leaning toward the Assault Squad though.

Again, thanks for the pointers, guys!

I made some adjustments to the first post. I have settled on an Assault Squad as of right now, with a Power Fist for some smashing.

I think the tactical sarge could probably part with the power sword. Those points could be better spent getting a pair of flamers in the assault squad, and possibly a melta bomb somewhere. Or a c-flamer for the tac sarge and a flamer for the AMs. You are already paying a premium for the powerfist, how much do you need to invest in CC? Particularly since the librarian is going to be hanging with the tacs (I assume)

While talking about wargear: Magnets. I know that’s more on the modeling side of the fence, rather then list building. As a new player, it can save you some trouble down the road if you get in on the ground floor.

For vehicles, especially Rhinos, Razorbacks, and Predators, I am definitely going to magnetize them for more options. For minis, I have some of the Snap-Fits that I am going to sub in to squads, and build more minis from the Tactical Squads as special weapon users. That way, I can just use the Snap-fits as plain bolter users and have lots of options for special weapons.

As to the Sergeant, I was looking for something that wasn't totally ineffectual against armor, since it seems most everything ends up having armor anyway. I could definitely add some melta though. Maybe switch Tac Sergeant back to using a chainsword and give him and a melta bomb. Could then give the AMs a flamer or two.

I do wonder what discipline the Librarian could use. I do plan on keeping him with the Tac squad.

Don't go spending heaps in power fists on sgts at 500. Remember if your troops assault a vehicle your hits are assigned against the rear armour which is usually 10. Its surprising how fast hull points get stripped by assaulting marines.

If you want an upgrade for sgt, melta bombs at 5 points they are a steal imho, especially on 5 man squads.

With the libby just keep him with your biggest squad so you dont give away an easy VP. The discipline you choose depends on playstyle. The force wep can always surpise any big nasties with ID.

So I made some adjustments to my army. As of right now, here is what I am looking at.

Librarian (ML 2) + Bones of Osrak - 115 pts

Tactical Squad with Melta Bombs, ML, Flamer - 165 pts

Scout Squad with LSS - 100 pts

Assault Squad with Vet Sergeant and Power First - 120 pts


Total - 500 pts

Your tactical squad isn't going to be very effective if moving and trying to fire the ML. I prefer all matching purpose weapons, especially if you aren't going to put them in a transport.. either commit to a stationary squad with a lascannon or something, or give them a plasma/melta and a combi and let them advance. They are going to take a lot of fire since they're exposed and your warlord is there... I'd hope for invisibility to protect them... or take a rhino.

Yeah, that is what I am afraid of. As of right now, that is my only assembled tactical squad, so I am trying to use it as much as possible. I am getting my battleforce this weekend, so I am going to assemble the tactical squad in there differently.

EDIT: Just noticed that the Battleforce comes with a Tactical Squad, Combat Squad, Bolter Scouts, and Assault Squad. So that Combat Squad could give me a bunch of marines for switching out. So I might just assemble every possible special weapon combination in the box, and swap them out as needed, especially since I probably won't use the combat squad anyway.

On a side note, where can you even get combi weapons?

Either GWs main website, ebay, or you cut the top of the gun off and the bottom of the other gun and glue them together.

If you do it properly it looks very good.

Hmmm, it looks like the newer Tactical Squad does include one Combi weapon base and the four different tops, so I could maybe make a mold of the bottom. That or I could magnetize it and just sub out the marine with the corresponding base weapon. Hopefully that will work. This all depends on what sprues I will actually get.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, I think I am going to build my army bearing on the assumption that I can locate a combi weapon of some sort. If that is the case, I will try the following army:

Librarian (ML 2, Force Staff, Bones of Osrak) - 115 pts

Tactical Squad (CombiMelta, Meltagun) - 160 pts

Scout Squad (LSS) - 100 pts

Assault Squad (Vet Sergeant with Power Fist) - 120 pts

Ends up as 495 pts

Does that look a little better?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You know, I might pick up a Space Marine Commander, since he comes with a Combi-Melta and a Combi-Plasma. Also, my FLGS can't seem to get the Librarian I ordered (and paid for...) in stock. Though, besides the beefed up stats, is there any benefit to a Captain over a Librarian? Librarians seem cheap as heck for what you get.

If I did a Captain instead of a Librarian, it would look like the following:

Captain (with Relic Blade and Boltgun) - 115 pts

Tactical Squad (Combi-Melta, Meltagun) - 160 pts

Scout Squad (Land Speeder Storm) - 100 pts

Assaults Squad (Power Fist, Veteran Sergeant) - 120 pts

Total Points - 495

Though maybe the Captain could have a Storm Bolter instead?

The only reason I see for taking a Captain is if you want access to the command squad AND a character to gear up for close combat that has more wounds than a librarian... otherwise the libby is great... or go all out and go for the 4 wound chapter master.

I may swap them in and out, since they have the same point costs. Money recently became a little tight, so the Captain has the added benefit of including some bits I want for a tactical squad or two. I may pick the Librarian up later, though. Also, as a new player, I kinda want to learn the ropes of general gameplay before I go ahead and add the Psychic Phase in.

So I have made some adjustments to this list. It plays a little better into my 1000 pt army (though that army doesn't use the Assault Squad, but I can't scrounge up the points to fit my Dev Squad).

Crimson Fists - Sentinels of Terra Tactics

Captain (with Relic Blade and Storm Bolter) - 120 pts

Tactical Squad (Combi-Melta, Meltagun) - 160 pts

Scout Squad (Land Speeder Storm) - 100 pts

Assaults Squad (Veteran Sergeant with Power Maul, 2x Flamer) - 120 pts

Total Points - 500 pts

I have also thought about making an army using a Dev Squad, but with only a couple Lascannons. It would be as follows:

Crimson Fists - Sentinels of Terra Tactics

Captain (with Relic Blade and Storm Bolter) - 120 pts

Tactical Squad (Combi-Melta, Meltagun) - 160 pts

Scout Squad (Land Speeder Storm) - 100 pts

Devastator Squad (2x Lascannons) - 110 pts

Total Points - 490 pts

With that number of points, I could add a Heavy Bolter or a Multimelta into the Tactical Squad, just for S&G. The Multimelta would take out another short-ranged TL bolter, so I don't know if that is preferable. My Dev box has made me 2 LC, 2 HB, 1 MM, 1 PC. That is a pretty awesome box of minis. I may get other and make even MOAR stuff.

I do have a question regarding Space Marine Captains. At this points level, is the Relic Blade worth it? The model obviously wouldn't change between a Power Sword and a Relic Blade (or would it?). Is that +2 Str really worth the points? Also, I have read from some people that Artificer Armor is pretty much a must, is that true? Again, not something that affects the model at all. I know in higher points levels, I always make it work so I can have the Relic Blade and the Artificer Armor.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I do have a question regarding Space Marine Captains. At this points level, is the Relic Blade worth it? The model obviously wouldn't change between a Power Sword and a Relic Blade (or would it?). Is that +2 Str really worth the points? Also, I have read from some people that Artificer Armor is pretty much a must, is that true? Again, not something that affects the model at all. I know in higher points levels, I always make it work so I can have the Relic Blade and the Artificer Armor.

AA is very nice. It lets your captain do things like tank heldrake hits, or just suck up a lot of small arms fire. Worth the points IMHO.

The relic blade is a jack-of-all-trades weapon. I like them, they are generically useful. The extra S will let you wound your peers on a 2+, and gives you a much better chance if you need to take down a MC. You could get the same results with a maul, but the AP3 is a nice boost. Striking at initiative will let you mow through troops, and get your licks in before someone with a powerfist crushes your head. Against a tricked out CC character, it’s not going to do a whole lot. You are not going to ID him, and have trouble even getting a wound on if he’s rocking a 2+ save. On the bright side, you are going to cost significantly less the a geared up HQ, so try to avoid the things that can crush you, and kill the things you can.

I’ve got an old 3rd ed captain with a powersword and stormbolter I field as AA and relic blade from time to time. Just be clear to your opponent what’s what.

 Nevelon wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I do have a question regarding Space Marine Captains. At this points level, is the Relic Blade worth it? The model obviously wouldn't change between a Power Sword and a Relic Blade (or would it?). Is that +2 Str really worth the points? Also, I have read from some people that Artificer Armor is pretty much a must, is that true? Again, not something that affects the model at all. I know in higher points levels, I always make it work so I can have the Relic Blade and the Artificer Armor.

AA is very nice. It lets your captain do things like tank heldrake hits, or just suck up a lot of small arms fire. Worth the points IMHO.

The relic blade is a jack-of-all-trades weapon. I like them, they are generically useful. The extra S will let you wound your peers on a 2+, and gives you a much better chance if you need to take down a MC. You could get the same results with a maul, but the AP3 is a nice boost. Striking at initiative will let you mow through troops, and get your licks in before someone with a powerfist crushes your head. Against a tricked out CC character, it’s not going to do a whole lot. You are not going to ID him, and have trouble even getting a wound on if he’s rocking a 2+ save. On the bright side, you are going to cost significantly less the a geared up HQ, so try to avoid the things that can crush you, and kill the things you can.

I’ve got an old 3rd ed captain with a powersword and stormbolter I field as AA and relic blade from time to time. Just be clear to your opponent what’s what.

Hmmm. That does sound pretty nifty. The only problem is that I don't have the points for both. I can't really find something to cut to generate the ten points I need for the AA. Still, at every points level beyond this I am definitely going to make sure I can squeeze the 20 points needed for AA. The Captain isn't cheap, so some extra survivability is never a bad idea.

I tend to stay away from captains in low point games. They can be nice, but need a bit of gear to reach their potential. The other HQs work better bare-bones out of the box.

 Nevelon wrote:
I tend to stay away from captains in low point games. They can be nice, but need a bit of gear to reach their potential. The other HQs work better bare-bones out of the box.

Yeah, I paired him with a Command Squad for higher levels. I suppose that could be done with a Libby too, though. I like the fact that with SoT, the Captain's storm bolter becomes TL at short range. Having him paired with a bunch of combi-plasma and an apothecary is my plan. I do want to have a Libby as an optional replacement HQ though. I just want to get the hang of most other aspects of the game before I add in the Psychic Phase.