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I've been back in the hobby for about four months, and have played five games against Eldar. Every one has ended with me tabled and it's the only army that has tabled me.

Playing today in a 2v2 (Guard+Guard versus Eldar+Tau, 1,000 points each player) the Eldar shining spears wrecked house. Two max units each with a lvl 3 farseer, both with fortune. I had two lvl 1 psykers, but could never manage to deny the witch on fortune. So, while on average 1/36 lasgun shots will kill a terminator, in this game on average 1/54 shots will kill a shining spear with fortune.

Turn 1 it was my ally's leman russ battle tank that bit the dust.

Turn 2 it was my tank commander vanquisher and his eradicator buddy tank.

Turn 3 it was my conscript squad and my ally's conscript squad.

Turn 4 it was a single unit double assaulting against a 20 man blob squad and 10 of my camo vets, wiped out both of them.

Turn 5 it was both my chimeras and their squads, by the end of the turn I had nothing left on the table. And my ally had one chimera and a valkyrie.

Playing against Eldar is the worst 40k experience ever. In this game, the Tau player rolled horrendously, he was a non-factor. His hammerhead failed its armor penetration rolls three turns in a row and Shadowsun mishapped on turn 3, finally made it on in turn 4, only managing to kill my wyvern. 80% of our entire combined 2,000 points of tanks and guardsmen were wiped clean by two units of shining spears, sporting armor saves 50% better than terminators. Even if they have to jink, their 4++ dodge save is 30% better than space marine armor. All armed with +S power weapons and S6 lance weapons. This is the second time I've faced this list and I'm at a complete loss for how I'm supposed to even contend with it.

I hate to be That Guy, but I'm ready to simply stop accepting games against Eldar.

Lvl 2 psykers is what you need

 TheSilo wrote:
I've been back in the hobby for about four months, and have played five games against Eldar. Every one has ended with me tabled and it's the only army that has tabled me.

Playing today in a 2v2 (Guard+Guard versus Eldar+Tau, 1,000 points each player) the Eldar shining spears wrecked house. Two max units each with a lvl 3 farseer, both with fortune. I had two lvl 1 psykers, but could never manage to deny the witch on fortune. So, while on average 1/36 lasgun shots will kill a terminator, in this game on average 1/54 shots will kill a shining spear with fortune.

Turn 1 it was my ally's leman russ battle tank that bit the dust.

Turn 2 it was my tank commander vanquisher and his eradicator buddy tank.

Turn 3 it was my conscript squad and my ally's conscript squad.

Turn 4 it was a single unit double assaulting against a 20 man blob squad and 10 of my camo vets, wiped out both of them.

Turn 5 it was both my chimeras and their squads, by the end of the turn I had nothing left on the table. And my ally had one chimera and a valkyrie.

Playing against Eldar is the worst 40k experience ever. In this game, the Tau player rolled horrendously, he was a non-factor. His hammerhead failed its armor penetration rolls three turns in a row and Shadowsun mishapped on turn 3, finally made it on in turn 4, only managing to kill my wyvern. 80% of our entire combined 2,000 points of tanks and guardsmen were wiped clean by two units of shining spears, sporting armor saves 50% better than terminators. Even if they have to jink, their 4++ dodge save is 30% better than space marine armor. All armed with +S power weapons and S6 lance weapons. This is the second time I've faced this list and I'm at a complete loss for how I'm supposed to even contend with it.

I hate to be That Guy, but I'm ready to simply stop accepting games against Eldar.

I understand, but I also feel if he hadn't have rolled horribly, the Tau would've been a bigger threat. Eldar at least sometimes get into close combat. Tau just sit back and wreckhouse from long range, as well as having shots that ignore cover. Idk, I haven't played games against Eldar yet, but if I had to pick, I'd say I hate Tau more.

Playing both Guard and Eldar, I find that the IG is one of the few armies out there that Eldar should really be worried about. Traditional massed infantry IG supported by ample tanks should be able to hammer the xenos into submission, or at least to bits. And if my IG sees an Eldar army sink so many points into 2 units of Shining Spears, it's actually good news. That means there's more IG to shoot at less xenos.

Question: Is it annoying that Eldar are better at the movement phase than your army? Or is it the fact that they dominate the psychic phase? Perhaps it's that they're a better shooting army than (insert your army here). Wait, I know! It's the fact that you can't make it to the assault phase vs them!

I admit, I'm not an Eldar fan... Mild exaggeration aside, they aren't THAT bad. They're just currently the best army out there. Grey Knights had their time to shine too. Against shining spears (Not the most broken unit out there at all) conventional Leman Russ will do well, also giving the ignores cover order and pointing heavy weapons at them is effective. Try full stormtrooper squads and ignore cover, each wound is jut one dead.

It sounds to me like you don't have the know how of your army yet to deal with a synergy combo.

I would try some lascannons, plasmaguns, and/or meltaguns with a company commander ordering them for ignore cover. It has an excellent chance of removing a model a lascannon.

Another key problem I see is that you should screen your tanks from charges with your infantry and have a morale booster to keep the conscripts in the fight (usually a priest). Your conscript squad should not die in a single turn against shining spears.

When something gets fortune off on it you really need to negate as much of it's save as possible or ignore it. If you can kill the exarch then you could also tarpit the unit.

For deny the witch attempts it will normally take you 6 dice to have a reasonable shot to deny a single fortune. However keep in mind that to manifest the power in the first place takes two 4+'s with 2 farseer's your opponent should have a tough time getting enough dice to consistently keep both unit's fortuned and getting 2 fortunes is already pretty poor odds.

Another idea: Blob with priest and Power axe sergeants! Sergeants and priest in back. He kills the scrubs on the charge, then take a ton of hateful ap 2 hits to the face.

I feel like you need to give him ten man squad speedbumps, with two units he can at best kill two units a turn. Buy an aegis, put it near the halfway point, and apply pressure. Go cheap and dont blob up, forget the psyker, he will be better at it that you so use those points elsewhere. When all else fails add more annoyance/sacrifice units, the more you can divide his attention the better. A small army needs to wipe out one target a turn, force him to split his fire or provide too many targets. Buy so many dudes you clig the board and limit his movement, the cheaper the unit the better.
Tldr,
Use many cgeap units to provide too many targets for him, ignore the psychic phase and hinder his movement buy adding so many dudes.

The only way to beat eldar is swarm them with bodies. All the Eldar Players I know are scared of too many targets. As long as they dont have wraithlords and knights just load up krak grenades and run forward guns blazing. Of course you should find decent combinations etc but I find this is what usually beats eldar.

But I agree. Eldar are joy killers haha.

Yeah it's really hard to get a dispel off now , especially if they roll more than 1 success, it's just difficult.

Don't worry lots of people hate playing against Eldar.

ansacs wrote:It sounds to me like you don't have the know how of your army yet to deal with a synergy combo.

Yeah, this, probably.

Eldar ramming you with jetbikes turn 1 is far from the cheesiest thing that eldar can do, and if you can't handle a few tough models jumping into your deployment zone early on, then you're going to have problems with a lot more than eldar. Just wait until you face against deathwing assault or drop pods, etc. etc.

If the lasguns you bring aren't enough then either:

1.) bring more lasguns. 54 shots is nothing more than 20 guardsmen with FRF. It's pretty easy to bring more than 20 guardsmen to the table.

2.) bring things other than lasguns. A squad of veterans hiding in a chimera, waiting for the bikes to get close (especially if they, say, just got out of a close combat), and then popping out and drenching them with plasma will do rather more than fishing for 6's against rerollable armor saves.

In any case, you should be glad that your opponent is at least bringing stuff up to you. It's not until wave serpent gunlining starts that things properly start to get boring against eldar.

Well if you can manage it, Priests with a squad of conscripts are a decent cheap tarpit.

 ansacs wrote:
It sounds to me like you don't have the know how of your army yet to deal with a synergy combo.

I would try some lascannons, plasmaguns, and/or meltaguns with a company commander ordering them for ignore cover. It has an excellent chance of removing a model a lascannon.

Another key problem I see is that you should screen your tanks from charges with your infantry and have a morale booster to keep the conscripts in the fight (usually a priest). Your conscript squad should not die in a single turn against shining spears.

When something gets fortune off on it you really need to negate as much of it's save as possible or ignore it. If you can kill the exarch then you could also tarpit the unit.

For deny the witch attempts it will normally take you 6 dice to have a reasonable shot to deny a single fortune. However keep in mind that to manifest the power in the first place takes two 4+'s with 2 farseer's your opponent should have a tough time getting enough dice to consistently keep both unit's fortuned and getting 2 fortunes is already pretty poor odds.

With fortune and jink, you will only remove 1 model for every 4 lascannons that hit. In order to kill a single shining spear I would've needed 9 lascannons. 4.5 hit, 3.75 wounds, 0.94 dead models.

We both had large infantry screens in front of our tanks, the infantry got pulverized by their twin-linked fire.

All of our conscripts had commissars. They didn't turn and run, they were each killed individually. Also the entire shining spears unit has hit and run with an initiative test at I6. You cannot tarpit them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ailaros wrote:

ansacs wrote:It sounds to me like you don't have the know how of your army yet to deal with a synergy combo.

Yeah, this, probably.

Eldar ramming you with jetbikes turn 1 is far from the cheesiest thing that eldar can do, and if you can't handle a few tough models jumping into your deployment zone early on, then you're going to have problems with a lot more than eldar. Just wait until you face against deathwing assault or drop pods, etc. etc.

If the lasguns you bring aren't enough then either:

1.) bring more lasguns. 54 shots is nothing more than 20 guardsmen with FRF. It's pretty easy to bring more than 20 guardsmen to the table.

2.) bring things other than lasguns. A squad of veterans hiding in a chimera, waiting for the bikes to get close (especially if they, say, just got out of a close combat), and then popping out and drenching them with plasma will do rather more than fishing for 6's against rerollable armor saves.

In any case, you should be glad that your opponent is at least bringing stuff up to you. It's not until wave serpent gunlining starts that things properly start to get boring against eldar.

Except that's a 20 man guard squad that somehow manages to get into rapid fire range, FRF, and then only manages to kill a single 25 point model.

I've faced Deathwing drop pod assault armies, that's easy. Dark Angels terminators don't have 12" movement, battle focus, hit and run, initiative 6, and a 1/9 armor save. And terminators cost twice as much as the shining spears.

They don't get their save if you put the Ignores Cover order on your firepower.
Doing that while using your meatshields to protect your tanks should yield much better results.

You're talking about 20 wounds of T4 Sv3+ rerollable. That's the rough equivalent of 20 terminators who have no invul save.

I really don't know what you're going on about. At 1,000 points, you can easily field something like...

CCS - lascannon

PCS - lascannon
PIS - lascannon, plasma gun
PIS - lascannon, plasma gun
PIS - lascannon, plasma gun

PCS - lascannon
PIS - lascannon, plasma gun
PIS - lascannon, plasma gun
PIS - lascannon, plasma gun

PCS - lascannon
PIS - lascannon, plasma gun
PIS - lascannon, plasma gun

... which is a pretty typical MSU list. That's MORE than enough to handle what you're talking about, easily. I mean, let's assume that nobody passes any orders, and that only half of them get to double-tap. That's still, in a single turn of shooting, 12 lasgun wounds, 5 lascannon wounds, and 5 plasma gun wounds.

If you catch your opponent without a jink save, you just blew half his army off the table in a single volley, with less than ideal circumstances and no passed orders. Then, with proper use of speedbumps, he kills a squad of guardsmen or two and then you repeat the next turn. Eldar jetbikes, even with fortune should more or less bounce off of a basic weight-of-fire guard list. And that's not even remotely optimized to handle this situation.

But if you have a bunch of problems with your list, and your level of tactics is "deploy everything in a line, don't move, and hope for the best", then, well, you probably deserve to get stomped by a high-mobility list practicing good force concentration.

I think your problem isn't that eldar are necessarily un-fun, so much as that you're losing (and probably for reasons you can change), and are considering losing un-fun.

I mean, there are things you can do to bring fun back in, but it doesn't mean eldar are necessarily non-fun, especially not in this loadout.

he doesn't get ignore cover. he uses the tank commander HQ. And even if he did the survival ratio of IG HQs is realy low. turn two they are dead against all armies and against fast moving and shoty armies they are dead turn 1, unless they are in reservs.

Why is your IG HQ dead turn 2?

There's a lot of strange assumptions being made in this thread.

Plasma units with ignores cover is your best bet. Keep a CCS with 4 plas in a Vebdetta or chimera. Jump out turn 2, double tap after ignoring cover.

Eldar can be pretty obnoxious. Really, they've always been in some form or fashion.

In 2nd it was decked out Exarchs
In 3rd it was Craftworlds
In 4th it was Holofalcons
In 5th it was Seer Council
In 6th it was Wave Serpents, Seer Council, Taudar
In 7th it's Wave Serpents, psyker spam, Wraithknights

Not a lot you can do except try to get your Eldar playing friends to rein it in to make games more fair and fun.

I never built my Eldar because I knew I'd never get to play them, at least in my previous city. My communities knew I was a good player and putting Eldar on the table would just be a bad show. I already made people cringe with Sisters of Battle.

They're extremely powerful and versatile and probably still the best army in the game with 51 points, 50"+ single turn moving, objective secured unit choice.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Why is your IG HQ dead turn 2?

There's a lot of strange assumptions being made in this thread.

Eldar have too many too fast units, that can destroy a chimera in one turn. If they start the Regimental is dead turn 1, if they don't it is dead turn 2.

Plasma units with ignores cover is your best bet. Keep a CCS with 4 plas in a Vebdetta or chimera. Jump out turn 2, double tap after ignoring cover.

How do you make it sure that your vendetta with Command section is on the table turn 2 and a HQ chimer won't live longer then turn 2, so if the eldar starts there will be no ginmpuj tou.

In what scenario is an Eldar player casually destroying your Chimera-protected CCS by the end of turn 2? What units are he using to do this?

What was the eldar list he brought, I am curious what else he had. At first look shining spears didn't look great but I need to rethink.

Eldarplayer wrote:
What was the eldar list he brought, I am curious what else he had. At first look shining spears didn't look great but I need to rethink.

Spears are great. Expensive but great. Small teams of 3 with an exarch destroy armour. So many monoliths and leman russes I killed with those playing as eldar. Loved it.

My friends told me today that If I start playing again (id pick eldar) I would find myself "without people to play with"... They can't be that bad.... especially since my friends all play either necrons or tau. Wish someone could talk sense into them...

i feel your pain. And i don't think you even got to mentioning wave serpents....

 Swastakowey wrote:

Eldarplayer wrote:
What was the eldar list he brought, I am curious what else he had. At first look shining spears didn't look great but I need to rethink.

Spears are great. Expensive but great. Small teams of 3 with an exarch destroy armour. So many monoliths and leman russes I killed with those playing as eldar. Loved it.

In that case they seem fun, but a bit OP from what others are saying.

Btw OP, Eldar jetbikes don't have battle focus.

 amhhs wrote:
My friends told me today that If I start playing again (id pick eldar) I would find myself "without people to play with"... They can't be that bad.... especially since my friends all play either necrons or tau. Wish someone could talk sense into them...

you never "beat:" eldar. you only survive. in 6th you had the chance to play escalation and laugh with your warhounds str D doom cannons wiping out his units regardless of the saves he brought to the field. now you arent even guaranteed to do that much.

eldar codex is B R O K E N broken and i refuse to play eldar ever. if my store owner fields his eldar im forfeiting the match or im going to simply yolo at him in a banzai charge until the match ends as victory is basically impossible.

i hope eldar players enjoy having fun with their armies playing among themselves i wont be joining you.

i think that if GW want to continue with the eldar as a race they need to radically rethink their approach to the book, or kill it outright. thats right no more eldar codex i said it. if GW kills the eldar codex or nerfs it into the ground with massive points hikes and relic re-writes that would also be sufficient. eldar are suppose to be a race of few. an elite strike team. jack up prices. and ya know what remove the wave serpent. night spinner fine, and make the falcon the troop carrier of the eldar.

 ionusx wrote:

 amhhs wrote:
My friends told me today that If I start playing again (id pick eldar) I would find myself "without people to play with"... They can't be that bad.... especially since my friends all play either necrons or tau. Wish someone could talk sense into them...

you never "beat:" eldar. you only survive. in 6th you had the chance to play escalation and laugh with your warhounds str D doom cannons wiping out his units regardless of the saves he brought to the field. now you arent even guaranteed to do that much.

eldar codex is B R O K E N broken and i refuse to play eldar ever. if my store owner fields his eldar im forfeiting the match or im going to simply yolo at him in a banzai charge until the match ends as victory is basically impossible.

i hope eldar players enjoy having fun with their armies playing among themselves i wont be joining you.

i think that if GW want to continue with the eldar as a race they need to radically rethink their approach to the book, or kill it outright. thats right no more eldar codex i said it. if GW kills the eldar codex or nerfs it into the ground with massive points hikes and relic re-writes that would also be sufficient. eldar are suppose to be a race of few. an elite strike team. jack up prices. and ya know what remove the wave serpent. night spinner fine, and make the falcon the troop carrier of the eldar.

I have been lobbying to remove eldar and replace them with squats.