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Here's my list then! The plan is to keep the deathstar in cover at all times to allow a 2+ cover save on all of them. Might lose a few wounds to dangerous terrain rolls here and there but I guess that can't be helped. Not sure how powerful this would be in 7th where 'ignores cover' is so much more common, but I've finished painting about 2/3 of it so I' like to use it at some point

Shadowsun 130 (She's the Warlord!)
Farsight 165

Bodyguardsx7 660
1 with two fusion blasters and target lock
2 with two missile pods and target lock
1 with plasma rifle, fusion blaster, target lock and Neuroweb Jammer
1 with two plasma rifles and target lock
1 with two plasma rifles, target lock, Puretide Neurochip, Onager Gauntlet
1 with Command and Control node, Multi Spectrum System, Drone Controller, vectored retro thrusters
13 Gun Drones

10 Kroot and a hound 65pts
10 Kroot 60pts

Riptide with Ion Accelerator and EWO 190pts

1 Broadsides with HYMP, SMS, EWO and 2 Missile Drones 94pts
Sky Ray Missile Defence Gunship with Blacksun Filter and SMS 116pts

Skyray is good support for a bomb and so are missilesides but need to be in larger numbers. The Riptide does the same job as the bomb so should be dropped for another of each of the above.

Dump switch the fusion suit to double plasma or double fusion. In general it is easier to hide 1 support suit though that depends on how much Barrage there is in your meta (for example Wyverns) however if there is a lot of that you'd be better off with a Buffmander over Shadowsun.

The issue you'll have overall is that you have no mobile scoring to grab VPs in the early game. Putting a lot of pressure on you to table the opponent as you could be too far behind by turn 3 or 4.

Thanks for the help. The main reason I had a riptide in was that I have one painted up right now and partly with the maelstrom objectives in mind.

I was thinking of entering this in a tournament of some description. I don't have time to play very often, so am just interested in what would be better in general. I do realise that wyverns could completely ruin this unit as it stands!

Does anyone have any other C+C for this or ideas for tactics? I'm certainly no expert...

Couple small points.

A full bomb is tough to run at 1500 as a properly built one costs about 1k itself. That being said, if you're going to run it, you need to clean up a few things about it:

Never mix weapons on a single suit. The Plasma/Fusion guy is an inefficiency because if you want his fusion directed at an AV13 tank or something; the Plasma will be along for the ride. Double it up like the rest.

You need a comms relay. Luckily you can now take them by themselves. It's a point upgrade that let's less than 2 drones. So it's doable.

In a lot of games you'll want to deep strike. And when you do, you need to be able to reroll a failed reserve roll. You also need to be able to reroll successful ones sometimes for your kroot, situation dependent.

As for tactics; a few notes:

Don't worry if you lose a few times at first. It's not a point and click army. One false move against a competent opponent and you're going down hard.

You need to be super cognizant of rapid fire ranges; both yours and those of your opponent. And half range for fusion.

I'm personally not a fan of Missile Pods in a bomb. Just load up on what it's meant to do; Plasma and Fusion. Close-in killing power.

Don't shoot at too many different targets. The bomb can usually wipe about two per turn depending on what we're talking about. The fusion usually slag a vehicle no problem and the plasma+gun drones usually paste an infantry unit. 2/turn is plenty.

Don't underestimate the bomb in combat. You're LD10 and can choose Stubborn that turn, Farsight's a boss and you'll usually have weight of attacks with the suits being S5 with 2 base A's and the drones for gravy on top.

 The Shrike wrote:
Couple small points.

A full bomb is tough to run at 1500 as a properly built one costs about 1k itself. That being said, if you're going to run it, you need to clean up a few things about it:

Never mix weapons on a single suit. The Plasma/Fusion guy is an inefficiency because if you want his fusion directed at an AV13 tank or something; the Plasma will be along for the ride. Double it up like the rest.

You need a comms relay. Luckily you can now take them by themselves. It's a point upgrade that let's less than 2 drones. So it's doable.

In a lot of games you'll want to deep strike. And when you do, you need to be able to reroll a failed reserve roll. You also need to be able to reroll successful ones sometimes for your kroot, situation dependent.

As for tactics; a few notes:

Don't worry if you lose a few times at first. It's not a point and click army. One false move against a competent opponent and you're going down hard.

You need to be super cognizant of rapid fire ranges; both yours and those of your opponent. And half range for fusion.

I'm personally not a fan of Missile Pods in a bomb. Just load up on what it's meant to do; Plasma and Fusion. Close-in killing power.

Don't shoot at too many different targets. The bomb can usually wipe about two per turn depending on what we're talking about. The fusion usually slag a vehicle no problem and the plasma+gun drones usually paste an infantry unit. 2/turn is plenty.

Don't underestimate the bomb in combat. You're LD10 and can choose Stubborn that turn, Farsight's a boss and you'll usually have weight of attacks with the suits being S5 with 2 base A's and the drones for gravy on top.

^^ This. The only disagreement is I normally go for 3 units dead. 1 to fusion, 1 to plasma and a 3rd to Farsight and the drones. Tough it depends on the unit(s) in question (sometimes I'm confident of finishing 4, others 1 unit takes the full firepower of the bomb).

I ran the Farsight bomb at the BAO and I went 3-3 (really should have been 4-2 due to failing a 4 inch charge for game) and it was ok. I got it swept twice, and was only able to pull out a win one of those times. It wasnt bad, but I would refer to something similar to what I run, but with less firepower (drop a Riptide) and add more support like you have done. The people that have posed above are a big help. Take their advice into good consideration.

Thanks guys, that's a great help. I think it'll be an interesting one to play with and hopefully not too grim for opponents to face in a competitive setting!

I'll switch that suit to double plasma then I guess and I'd consider dropping down one of the missile pods. I quite like the idea of them though to increase the threat range (particularly with the idea of pasting some wyverns in mind...)

I'd not heard you could take comms relays as individual models now - is that from stronghold assault? It'd certainly make them very reliable when arriving from reserve! My initial intention was to keep them on the table turn one though. Seems for that amount of investment I'd like them to be killing things ASAP?

The thought had occurred to me that assaulting a LRBT line with this could be quite funny. I suspect most people don't anticipate the tau assault phase

You need a fortification to take the Comms. I take an ADL

Oh fair enough, I misread that. I suppose an ADL could be useful but it really does eat into support points

Whoops... there doesn't seem to be anything here.

 Sillycybin wrote:
Not a lot of invulnerable, 2 forgefiends with autocannnons would wipe the bomb in a turn. They cost less than half the points of the bomb as well. Same goes for two riptides.

Take 6 shield drones and the Riptides have a 5+ and a 3+ when it's charged

 Sillycybin wrote:
Not a lot of invulnerable, 2 forgefiends with autocannnons would wipe the bomb in a turn. They cost less than half the points of the bomb as well. Same goes for two riptides.

I take it you've never played with or against a bomb? I mean how are you getting ignores cover on the Forgefiends?

Whilst MLs are the only way to get it on Riptides these days, take tgem out turn 1 and the Riptides struggle to kill a drone a turn. Whilst the Bomb can kill 2 Riptides in a turn.

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
You need a fortification to take the Comms. I take an ADL

You do not need a fortification to take a comms relay any longer in 7th. I wish I had my rulebook on me so I could quote directly. Can someone help me out?

Ah, it's not in the BRB; it's in Stronghold Assault. Look under Battlefield Debris: 20 points.

Shame, not sure I can really be bothered to pay £20 or more for the privilege of getting cheap reserve re-rolls

No you can't take it on it's own. It has a point cost under upgrades for a fortification. The battlefield debris one is not for use in game as it cannot be a fortification in its own right because the point cost is not there to use it like so, and no one take one without the fortification. IMHO it's a RAW and RAI argument.

It's also under battlefield debris in the BRB and does not have a point cost and they can't be taken separately because it doesn't say so. So I would go with what the BRB says since it came out after stronghold.

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
No you can't take it on it's own. It has a point cost under upgrades for a fortification. The battlefield debris one is not for use in game as it cannot be a fortification in its own right because the point cost is not there to use it like so, and no one take one without the fortification. IMHO it's a RAW and RAI argument.

That's incorrect. At least in the digital version of Stronghold Assault the book explicitly states that "The following list summaries the rules for battlefield debris that can be purchased as an upgrade to a fortification or as a fortification in their own right" or something to that extent. Points value is 20 points.

j0hnnyllama wrote:

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
No you can't take it on it's own. It has a point cost under upgrades for a fortification. The battlefield debris one is not for use in game as it cannot be a fortification in its own right because the point cost is not there to use it like so, and no one take one without the fortification. IMHO it's a RAW and RAI argument.

That's incorrect. At least in the digital version of Stronghold Assault the book explicitly states that "The following list summaries the rules for battlefield debris that can be purchased as an upgrade to a fortification or as a fortification in their own right" or something to that extent. Points value is 20 points.

No, I will quote Stronghold Assault, and then the BRB to back up my point.

Stronghold Assault:

Fortification UPGRADES
p.18 "Some FORTIFICATIONS can purchase upgrades by paying an additional point cost. The fortifications that can purchase upgrades, and the types of upgrades they can access, are stated in that fortification's datasheet entry."
This is the page where under battlements and battlefield the Comms Relay is listed as 20 points. This is to be taken with a fortification, see the quote above.

Battlefield DEBRIS
p.19 "The following list summaries the rules for battlefield debris that can be purchased as and upgrade TO A FORTIFICATION, or as fortifications in their own right."
It does say that they can be fortifications in their own right, but there is no point cost. The 20 point cost is for a comms relay that has to be strictly on a fortification (see quote above). There is no point cost listed under the battlefield debris page, so we have to assume that RAW is that it has to be an upgrade to a fortification for 20 points as there is no Battlefield Debris point cost for it. This is also correct with RAI. Do we see loan quad guns sitting about? No. It is obvious that GW did not intend for people to take battlefield debris as fortifications. This is backed up by the BRB

BRB:

Battlefield Debris:
p.109 " Battlefield Debris is DIFFICULT TERRAIN. Unless otherwise stated, a model in caver behind difficult terrain has a 5+ cover save."

So the RAW from both books implies that you can only take one as a Fortification Upgrade due to the fact that it is 20 points there, and all Battlefield Debris is difficult terrain and not a fortification in its own right. If GW wanted them to be Fortifications, they would have their own datasheets like all of the others and wouldn't be under a Battlefield Terrain profile too. As it stands you may not take a comms relay on its own, that is how GW wanted the RAW and RAI.

Ok, well regardless of all that, I'll still not take one then if that's ok

I'm probably going to deploy the unit on the table in the majority of games anyway, just seems a waste having 900+ points of killing power off the table while my other units get hammered...

I second removing the riptide. ALso as mentioned clean up each model to only the same weapon.

Add 2 Missile sides for the extra Points from Riptide, and maybe some marker drones.

Interesting, besides minor tweaks to the bomb that takes it back to the original list I had pretty much lol

I know the riptide probably isn't an optimal choice, and I'll replace it if I have time, but it might be a while as I currently have no broadsides and am a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to painting... I still need to convert a shadowsun and farsight for that matter

 Commander_Farsight wrote:



BRB:

Battlefield Debris:
p.109 " Battlefield Debris is DIFFICULT TERRAIN. Unless otherwise stated, a model in caver behind difficult terrain has a 5+ cover save."

So the RAW from both books implies that you can only take one as a Fortification Upgrade due to the fact that it is 20 points there, and all Battlefield Debris is difficult terrain and not a fortification in its own right. If GW wanted them to be Fortifications, they would have their own datasheets like all of the others and wouldn't be under a Battlefield Terrain profile too. As it stands you may not take a comms relay on its own, that is how GW wanted the RAW and RAI.

Sorry man - but I don't agree with your reading of that. The existence of the line "or as fortifications in their own right" clearly states to me that these items can be taken as fortifications in their "own right." Not a single item under this list has a points value - that's because the points are listed elsewhere. I just can't buy that GW provided the qualifier that "Or as fortifications in their own right" means "ignore everything that doesn't have a redundant points cost below." Not that it matters - most major tourneys have an allowed fortifications list, but your citation of page 109 of the BRB does nothing but qualify that battlefield debris is difficult terrain. This is covered in SA. Anyway - this boils down to a YMDC thread, but I don't see how RAW in both books backs up your point.

Edit: Fixed for Farsight's feelings

 Commander_Farsight wrote:

j0hnnyllama wrote:

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
No you can't take it on it's own. It has a point cost under upgrades for a fortification. The battlefield debris one is not for use in game as it cannot be a fortification in its own right because the point cost is not there to use it like so, and no one take one without the fortification. IMHO it's a RAW and RAI argument.

That's incorrect. At least in the digital version of Stronghold Assault the book explicitly states that "The following list summaries the rules for battlefield debris that can be purchased as an upgrade to a fortification or as a fortification in their own right" or something to that extent. Points value is 20 points.

Spoiler:

No, I will quote Stronghold Assault, and then the BRB to back up my point.

Stronghold Assault:

Fortification UPGRADES
p.18 "Some FORTIFICATIONS can purchase upgrades by paying an additional point cost. The fortifications that can purchase upgrades, and the types of upgrades they can access, are stated in that fortification's datasheet entry."
This is the page where under battlements and battlefield the Comms Relay is listed as 20 points. This is to be taken with a fortification, see the quote above.

Battlefield DEBRIS
p.19 "The following list summaries the rules for battlefield debris that can be purchased as and upgrade TO A FORTIFICATION, or as fortifications in their own right."
It does say that they can be fortifications in their own right, but there is no point cost. The 20 point cost is for a comms relay that has to be strictly on a fortification (see quote above). There is no point cost listed under the battlefield debris page, so we have to assume that RAW is that it has to be an upgrade to a fortification for 20 points as there is no Battlefield Debris point cost for it. This is also correct with RAI. Do we see loan quad guns sitting about? No. It is obvious that GW did not intend for people to take battlefield debris as fortifications. This is backed up by the BRB

BRB:

Battlefield Debris:
p.109 " Battlefield Debris is DIFFICULT TERRAIN. Unless otherwise stated, a model in caver behind difficult terrain has a 5+ cover save."

So the RAW from both books implies that you can only take one as a Fortification Upgrade due to the fact that it is 20 points there, and all Battlefield Debris is difficult terrain and not a fortification in its own right. If GW wanted them to be Fortifications, they would have their own datasheets like all of the others and wouldn't be under a Battlefield Terrain profile too. As it stands you may not take a comms relay on its own, that is how GW wanted the RAW and RAI.

I wonder if the mods can move half of this thread to YMDC?

Not to derail much further, but I'm willing to concede based on page 57 of the Stronghold assault book:

“Battlement & Battlefield upgrades are single pieces of battlefield debris. A list of the relevant descriptions and rules for battlefield debris can be found opposite. Each fortification can purchase a single Battlement & Battlefield upgrade from the list below. These are placed either on the fortification’s battlements (if it is a building with battlements) or anywhere on the tabletop that is wholly within 6" of their fortification.”

j0hnnyllama wrote:
Not to derail much further, but I'm willing to concede based on page 57 of the Stronghold assault book:

“Battlement & Battlefield upgrades are single pieces of battlefield debris. A list of the relevant descriptions and rules for battlefield debris can be found opposite. Each fortification can purchase a single Battlement & Battlefield upgrade from the list below. These are placed either on the fortification’s battlements (if it is a building with battlements) or anywhere on the tabletop that is wholly within 6" of their fortification.”

Ok cool. Back to Tau!!

 DoomMouse wrote:
I wonder if the mods can move half of this thread to YMDC?

Well it seems that they have managed to get themselves back on track in 2 posts, which is good to see. But this is a warning, lets keep this on topic. Take rules debates to the relevant forum, and leave this for its intended purpose. Thanks, and have a good one.

If I were you, I would switch warlords between games depending on the opponent. Most games, I would use Shadowsun for her 3D6 jump move. Paired with infiltrate, you can have the whole thing plunking units away from turn 1. Add in Shadowsun's Stealth and Shrouded for some amazing defensive capabilities.

However, if you are playing against a Drop Pod, Deathwing assault list, or some other list that requires a massive in-close alpha strike, I would recommend using Farsight. That way they come in the board after your opponent's models come on, EXACTLY where they need to be placed to cause the most hurt to your opponent.

Can you change warlords between games? Thought you had to just pick one if you were doing a tournament style list? I can imagine both would be very useful depending on the opponent, although I'd probably pick shadowsun if I had to just choose one.