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Ok, so I'm thinking of revisiting my Iyanden list. Ive always had crazy amounts of success with wraithknights, So I want to squeeze as many as I can in at this points value and keep my theme of ghost knights. Let me know what you think.......

1500 Pts - Codex: Eldar Supplement - Iyanden Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1500

HQ: Spiritseer (1#, 70 pts, Warlord)
1 Spiritseer

Troops: Wraithguard (6#, 355 pts)
5 Wraithguard + D-Scythe
1 Wave Serpent + Holo-Fields + TL Scatter Lasers + Shuriken Cannon

Troops: Wraithguard (6#, 355 pts)
5 Wraithguard + D-Scythe
1 Wave Serpent + Holo-Fields + TL Scatter Lasers + Shuriken Cannon

Heavy Support: Wraithknight (1#, 240 pts)
1 Wraithknight

Heavy Support: Wraithknight (1#, 240 pts)
1 Wraithknight

Heavy Support: Wraithknight (1#, 240 pts)
1 Wraithknight

I love the Wraith troops for Eldar, especially the Knights. You might want to consider using them in CC with vehicles to add to the hurt. To me this has always been more effective than two shots every round.

Beware of poisoned weapons! The knight's toughness 8 means nothing to a squad of Kabalite Warriors or Hellions for example. Against other threats it will stand it's own.

I think Wraithknights are very viable at this point level. However I worry about how you deal with MSU scoring or hordes. You have mobility as long as those Serpents last but you have only 5 units on the board and no great way to get lots of VPs in the early to midgame. In 7th Jetbikes are a better support unit to Wraithknights than Wraithguard (and make you less instaboned vs DE). Have you considered goibg down that route?

 FlingitNow wrote:
I think Wraithknights are very viable at this point level. However I worry about how you deal with MSU scoring or hordes. You have mobility as long as those Serpents last but you have only 5 units on the board and no great way to get lots of VPs in the early to midgame. In 7th Jetbikes are a better support unit to Wraithknights than Wraithguard (and make you less instaboned vs DE). Have you considered goibg down that route?

Hordes are easy shot them with the WS first round, second round hit them WS again then the D-Scythes then Wraithknight in combat


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RottenEmu wrote:
I love the Wraith troops for Eldar, especially the Knights. You might want to consider using them in CC with vehicles to add to the hurt. To me this has always been more effective than two shots every round.

Beware of poisoned weapons! The knight's toughness 8 means nothing to a squad of Kabalite Warriors or Hellions for example. Against other threats it will stand it's own.

Necron Deathmarks (That mark a Wraithknight) and some other snipers can also cause issues for it.

I would drop the scythes and SC on serpents and take suncannons and SL on two of your wraithknights.

Djbillson wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
I think Wraithknights are very viable at this point level. However I worry about how you deal with MSU scoring or hordes. You have mobility as long as those Serpents last but you have only 5 units on the board and no great way to get lots of VPs in the early to midgame. In 7th Jetbikes are a better support unit to Wraithknights than Wraithguard (and make you less instaboned vs DE). Have you considered goibg down that route?

Hordes are easy shot them with the WS first round, second round hit them WS again then the D-Scythes then Wraithknight in combat

Not convinced that is enough vs Hordes. For instance Greentide could field 152 FnP Orks in 1 unit that you get 2 maybe 3 if you're lucky turns of shooting at before 11 Powerklaws are in combat with you. Those Serpents (assuming no cover or invun) kill about 10~11 boyz a turn between them and the knights another 3~4. The tiny threat range on the D-Scythes means they probably don't get to shoot until everything is dead and may never get to shoot if the Ork pulls off a 24" charge distance (as he'll probably then wrap and glance the Serpents to death auto killing the contents).

That is just 1 example. With the Crystal targetting matrix (the one that allows you to pivot after firing I forget the name) you can show your rear to the enemy when deploying the Wraithguard, fire the SL and turn back to show your front to the enemy again. It basically gives you an extra 6" threat range and for me is an auto include on D-Scythe carrying Serpents.

However even that doesn't solve the other issues raised (you effectively have a 5 model army) and I still think Jetbikes work better with Wraithknights than Wraithguard in 7th. Though if he wants to really commit to Wraithknights he could fit in 4 with 5~6 units of Jetbikes and a Double Mantletarch/seer unit.

I did think about allies to gain an extra knight. At the moment I own a unit of 5 scythes, a serpent and a knight. So I'm pretty flexible. I'm looking for a competitive eldar list based on the Iyanden theme. And I've had considerable success with the Knights. I play tested a list with a spiritseer, 5 scythes, 2 x 5 guard, 3 serpents and 2 knights and it tabled my opponents farsight list. There was a little luck on the dice rolls, but it really upset him.

I'd like to keep the scythes as I've built them, but it's not a must. I'm happy to start from scratch to build a Competitive list, I do like S10 Cannons and AP2 flamers though.

I contemplated an unbound list with Lords in for scatter lasers. But I'm of the understanding that unbound won't be allowed at most tournaments.

Well I woundt go for the super expensive troops. Better to have min dire squads in serpents if your already backing half your army into 3 models. You could allie in another knight, but that would force you to lose quite allot out of your main army. 4 knights would really rip apart any friendly list, and most competitive ones. You would really struggle vs grav spam and flier spam.

Wait, they would or wouldn't rip apart friendly and comp lists? I was thinking 2 stock and 2 with suncannons.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Wait, they would or wouldn't rip apart friendly and comp lists? I was thinking 2 stock and 2 with suncannons.

Destroy any friendly list, and most competitive ones. But you would have some really hard counters that you woudnt be able to do much about.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Ok, so I'm thinking of revisiting my Iyanden list. Ive always had crazy amounts of success with wraithknights, So I want to squeeze as many as I can in at this points value and keep my theme of ghost knights. Let me know what you think.......

1500 Pts - Codex: Eldar Supplement - Iyanden Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1500

HQ: Spiritseer (1#, 70 pts, Warlord)
1 Spiritseer

Troops: Wraithguard (6#, 355 pts)
5 Wraithguard + D-Scythe
1 Wave Serpent + Holo-Fields + TL Scatter Lasers + Shuriken Cannon

Troops: Wraithguard (6#, 355 pts)
5 Wraithguard + D-Scythe
1 Wave Serpent + Holo-Fields + TL Scatter Lasers + Shuriken Cannon

Heavy Support: Wraithknight (1#, 240 pts)
1 Wraithknight

Heavy Support: Wraithknight (1#, 240 pts)
1 Wraithknight

Heavy Support: Wraithknight (1#, 240 pts)
1 Wraithknight

I don't play Eldar...this looks stompy fierce! But it feels like too many eggs in too few baskets...I'd likely drop one Knight (two is still monster strong at 1500) and look a spending points on say some Jetbikes, or some Troops in a Wave serpent..? I'd also give a hard think on a second HQ: Spirit Seer..? They are fairly inexpensive, and can give more Psychic power.

This list would have trouble against a horde marine list. Raven guard can easily get 15 objective secured units and marines in your deployment zone in 10 different combat squads. You'd struggle to deal with that many threats. You also have trouble dealing with air units. If they take out your 2 serpents an army like necrons will have a field day.

bobmgee wrote:
This list would have trouble against a horde marine list. Raven guard can easily get 15 objective secured units and marines in your deployment zone in 10 different combat squads. You'd struggle to deal with that many threats. You also have trouble dealing with air units. If they take out your 2 serpents an army like necrons will have a field day.

Unfortunately I have to disagree with pretty much everything here. Horde Marines wouldn't have too many threats, 15 ObSec units sure but 2~3 actual threats that would get killed in 1 turn by the army posted. Then it's just mop up time. The problem with horde marines is that marines don't do anything like their points in damage unless they are sternguard, Hammernators, Honourguard or Centurions, the first being the only likely inclusion in a Horde marine army. 50 tac marines at 1500 leaves very few points for actual killing power in fact with transports you have points for a cheap HQ and that's it you're not even fully equipping the squads.

Again I don't see air units causing this list a problem. They get 1 turn of furing when coming on from reserve tops. Due to the mobility of the list you just flood their deployment zone. Only the Crimson Hunter is a real threat but how often do you see them?

 FlingitNow wrote:

bobmgee wrote:
This list would have trouble against a horde marine list. Raven guard can easily get 15 objective secured units and marines in your deployment zone in 10 different combat squads. You'd struggle to deal with that many threats. You also have trouble dealing with air units. If they take out your 2 serpents an army like necrons will have a field day.

Unfortunately I have to disagree with pretty much everything here. Horde Marines wouldn't have too many threats, 15 ObSec units sure but 2~3 actual threats that would get killed in 1 turn by the army posted. Then it's just mop up time. The problem with horde marines is that marines don't do anything like their points in damage unless they are sternguard, Hammernators, Honourguard or Centurions, the first being the only likely inclusion in a Horde marine army. 50 tac marines at 1500 leaves very few points for actual killing power in fact with transports you have points for a cheap HQ and that's it you're not even fully equipping the squads.

Again I don't see air units causing this list a problem. They get 1 turn of furing when coming on from reserve tops. Due to the mobility of the list you just flood their deployment zone. Only the Crimson Hunter is a real threat but how often do you see them?

I'd be interested to hear your take on a better build? I'm thinking 4 knights, one with a sun cannon.

I'd personally run something like this for Knight Spam:

CAD1
Autarch: mantle, laser lance, banshee mask, Jetbike, fusion 150
Farseer: jetbike, spear 120

Jetbikes 51
Jetbikes 51
Jetbikes 51
Jetbikes 51
6 Jetbikes: 2 Cannons 122
6 Jetbikes: 2 Cannons 122

Wraithknight 240
Wraithknight 240
Wraithknight: Suncannon, SL 300

Gives 6 superfast ObSec units and 4 other pressure units. Though if you just want as many WKs as possible then this would work:

CAD1
Autarch: mantle, laser lance, banshee mask, Jetbike, fusion 150

Jetbikes 51
Jetbikes 51

Wraithknight 240
Wraithknight 240

CAD2

Autarch: laser lance, banshee mask, Jetbike, fusion 110

Jetbikes 51
Jetbikes: Cannon 61

Wraithknight 240
Wraithknight: Suncannon, SL 300

5 pressure units going at the enemy. Though you'd want to be more careful with your ObSec stuff in this list. Both would struggle against greentide. Though at least you can just throw the Autarchs and all WKs into it whilst grabbing objectives with the bikes.

I like the second list. A lot.

I hope that this is only for competitive stuff.

Haha, what else? I wouldn't dare take it to a friends for a game....

 Feasible wrote:
I hope that this is only for competitive stuff.

Its not really THAT strong, its a good list but id hardly cry about having to face it.

chadbrochill17 wrote:

 Feasible wrote:
I hope that this is only for competitive stuff.

Its not really THAT strong, its a good list but id hardly cry about having to face it.

The only stuff (I can think of) that could beat this are hordes, DE, and Obj Sec spam.

chadbrochill17 wrote:

 Feasible wrote:
I hope that this is only for competitive stuff.

Its not really THAT strong, its a good list but id hardly cry about having to face it.

Just out of curiosity,

can anyone post a better list that wouldn't have counters to horde and DE (like posted previously)?


I'm sure the OP wouldn't mind

Welll, you could hide behind your WK's and this is actually what you do.
Boring to play.

 FlingitNow wrote:


Not convinced that is enough vs Hordes. For instance Greentide could field 152 FnP Orks in 1 unit that you get 2 maybe 3 if you're lucky turns of shooting at before 11 Powerklaws are in combat with you. Those Serpents (assuming no cover or invun) kill about 10~11 boyz a turn between them and the knights another 3~4. The tiny threat range on the D-Scythes means they probably don't get to shoot until everything is dead and may never get to shoot if the Ork pulls off a 24" charge distance (as he'll probably then wrap and glance the Serpents to death auto killing the contents).

That is just 1 example. With the Crystal targetting matrix (the one that allows you to pivot after firing I forget the name) you can show your rear to the enemy when deploying the Wraithguard, fire the SL and turn back to show your front to the enemy again. It basically gives you an extra 6" threat range and for me is an auto include on D-Scythe carrying Serpents.

However even that doesn't solve the other issues raised (you effectively have a 5 model army) and I still think Jetbikes work better with Wraithknights than Wraithguard in 7th. Though if he wants to really commit to Wraithknights he could fit in 4 with 5~6 units of Jetbikes and a Double Mantletarch/seer unit.

You're thinking about the vectored engines:

V ectored Engines
Vectored engines allow the pilot of an Eldar vehicle to alter its facing
swiftly, placing deadly weapons, or stronger armour, to the fore.
Unless it is Immobilised, a vehicle with this upgrade can
pivot to face any direction immediately after resolving its
shooting attack (in the Shooting phase).


And no you cannot do your dirty trick, because disembarking occurs in the movement phase, and the vectored engine move can only be done AFTER shooting. Unless you disembark left and shoot right, then pivot front, it cannot do what you'd like it to


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, this list is not really competitive, you have nothing to deal with many threats, I would wager just about any DE list will wipe the floor with it, and apart from the WK, there really is nothing on the table.

At this point range, you can't really make a balanced army around 3 WK.

One of the best options then...

Spiritseer
3x5 DA
2 WS Shu /Scatter /Holo
3 WK
1 WS Shu / Scatter
5 Warp Spiders


I think it's a lot more competitive than the other options presented here.

3 wraithknights are viable from 720 points up to 7,200 points lol. If you're facing a horde just keep them back until they've blown up enough guys to win combat. You don't want them getting tar pitted, that's about the only counter to them in a horde army.

And no you cannot do your dirty trick, because disembarking occurs in the movement phase, and the vectored engine move can only be done AFTER shooting. Unless you disembark left and shoot right, then pivot front, it cannot do what you'd like it to 

My trick works fine. You point your rear and the enemy and disembark from the rear (this puts you about 6" closer than facing the enemy and deploying from rear). This happens in the movement phase which is BEFORE the shooting phase not after as you seem to think. Then in the shooting phase the Wave Serpent fires it's turret mounted gun in any direction it chooses (including straight behind it) and then pivots 180° to face the enemy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

And no you cannot do your dirty trick, because disembarking occurs in the movement phase, and the vectored engine move can only be done AFTER shooting. Unless you disembark left and shoot right, then pivot front, it cannot do what you'd like it to 

My trick works fine. You point your rear and the enemy and disembark from the rear (this puts you about 6" closer than facing the enemy and deploying from rear). This happens in the movement phase which is BEFORE the shooting phase not after as you seem to think. Then in the shooting phase the Wave Serpent fires it's turret mounted gun in any direction it chooses (including straight behind it) and then pivots 180° to face the enemy.

At the cost of most of your shooting phase ? might want to specify that you know

Meh trick tbh. if you're going to throw away most of your shooting phase you can also not take vectored and flat out that turn.

morgoth wrote:
At the cost of most of your shooting phase ? might want to specify that you know

Meh trick tbh. if you're going to throw away most of your shooting phase you can also not take vectored and flat out that turn.

No not at the cost of most of your shooting phase at all. You're not firing a Shield and a Shuriken cannon/catapult (depending on build). For that you're getting to fire 5 D-Scythes at full effectiveness. This is a very worth while trade.

Most of your shooting phase with that Wave Serpent.
In which case you might as well use the flat out, and not purchase vectored engines and be happy.

That's a more worthwhile trade imho, even though I have trouble seeing when exactly fielding D-Scythes could be competitive and all.

morgoth wrote:
Most of your shooting phase with that Wave Serpent.
In which case you might as well use the flat out, and not purchase vectored engines and be happy.

That's a more worthwhile trade imho, even though I have trouble seeing when exactly fielding D-Scythes could be competitive and all.

Is this a joke? Scythes are awesome!

morgoth wrote:
Most of your shooting phase with that Wave Serpent.
In which case you might as well use the flat out, and not purchase vectored engines and be happy.

That's a more worthwhile trade imho, even though I have trouble seeing when exactly fielding D-Scythes could be competitive and all.

? You can't flat out and disembark in the same turn. D-Scythes are competitive if you can deliver them. That is the issue.