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Made in us
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




Naples, FL

Hello, I am entering a ground-unit (no flyers) tournament. Any feedback on the following list would be much appreciated.

HQ - Chaos Lord - w/ Lightning Claw (will join berzerkers on mad rush into CC)

Troops:

10 x Chaos Space Marines - 273 points
+ Aspiring Champion (w/ plasma gun)
+ Mark of Nurgle
+2 Plasma Guns
-----In Rhino - (with combi bolter and Havoc Launcher)

10 x Chaos Space Marines - 273 points
+ Aspiring Champion (w/ plasma gun)
+ Mark of Nurgle
+2 Plasma Guns
-----In Rhino - (with combi bolter and Havoc Launcher)


10 x Chaos Space Marines - 273 points
+ Aspiring Champion (w/ plasma gun)
+ Mark of Nurgle
+2 Plasma Guns
-----In Rhino - (with combi bolter and Havoc Launcher)


7x Berzerkers -170 points
+1 Aspiring Champion (w/ chainaxe)


Elites:

5x Chosen - 178 points
+1 Aspiring Champion (w/ plasma gun)
+4 Plasma Gun

1x Helbrute - 125 points
+Twin-Linked Lascannon
+PowerClaw


Fast Attack:

7x Chaos Bikers - 248
+ Mark of Nurgle
+1 Biker Champion (w/ combi melta)
+2 meltas


Heavy Support:

1x Chaos Land Raider - 255 points (this will carry the zerkers and Lord)
+Combi Bolter
+Combi Flamer
+Extra Armour

1x Vindicator (w/ Havoc Launcher)

----2000 points
   
Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





Texarkana TX

that land raider can be better and cheaper, only upgrades id give it are dozerblades and dirge casters. gets them into combat and prevents overwatch.

5000+ 
   
Made in ca
Pulsating Possessed Space Marine of Slaanesh







Whoops... there doesn't seem to be anything here.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/10 17:40:27


3000pts
500 pts
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles 
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch




Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology

You would have to give your lord a mark of khorne for the berzerkers to be troops. Furthermore, the Lightning Claw is really un-intimidating. Give him the Axe of Blind Fury.
I agree with the above on the landraider
If you're going to take a vindicator, you need to get daemonic possession, its what makes CSM vindicators the best in the game.

If you take a single penn hit your chance of firing your vindicator's demolisher cannon next round is

AP3+
without daemonic possession: 16.67%
with daemonic possession and attached weapon: 63.89%

AP2
without daemonic possession: 16.67%
with daemonic possession and attached weapon: 47.22%

AP1
without daemonic possession: 16.67%
with daemonic possession and attached weapon: 30.55%

Also, you should really take 2. CSM need redundancy to be effective because your stuff will die so you need duplicates.

"We are the Red Sorcerers of Prospero, damned in the eyes of our fellows, and this is to be how our story ends, in betrayal and bloodshed. No...you may find it nobler to suffer your fate, but I will take arms against it." -Ahzek Ahriman
1250 Points of The Prodigal Sons  
   
Made in us
Member of the Malleus




SLC, UT

I'm not quote sure what the chosen squad is for or will do. Infiltrate and then instantly explode? That seems like the most likely scenario. Those points could go to literally anything else and would probably be better. My vote is a helldrake.

"Huddle close to your Emperor if he makes you feel safe. He cannot save you, for only Chaos is eternal."

Cross: Noun. A thing you nail people to.

Iron Warriors 3k Yme-Loc 6k
Grey Knights 2k <3 Harlequin WIP
Vampire Counts 3K Dwarfs 2k
 
   
Made in us
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




Naples, FL

 changerofways wrote:
You would have to give your lord a mark of khorne for the berzerkers to be troops. Furthermore, the Lightning Claw is really un-intimidating. Give him the Axe of Blind Fury.
I agree with the above on the landraider
If you're going to take a vindicator, you need to get daemonic possession, its what makes CSM vindicators the best in the game.

If you take a single penn hit your chance of firing your vindicator's demolisher cannon next round is

AP3+
without daemonic possession: 16.67%
with daemonic possession and attached weapon: 63.89%

AP2
without daemonic possession: 16.67%
with daemonic possession and attached weapon: 47.22%

AP1
without daemonic possession: 16.67%
with daemonic possession and attached weapon: 30.55%

Also, you should really take 2. CSM need redundancy to be effective because your stuff will die so you need duplicates.



If I were to add another vindicator, what would you propose that I remove? The chosen sqaud?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, what would you all suggest... Plague Marines or the normal Vanilla CSM?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ok... so here is the revised list. (also, do you think this list could deal with fliers without a helldrake?)


HQ - Chaos Lord - w/ Axe of Blind Fury and Marke of Khorne (will join berzerkers on mad rush into CC)

Troops:

10 x Chaos Space Marines
+ Aspiring Champion (w/ plasma gun)
+ Mark of Nurgle
+2 Plasma Guns
-----In Rhino - (with combi bolter and Havoc Launcher)

10 x Chaos Space Marines
+ Aspiring Champion (w/ plasma gun)
+ Mark of Nurgle
+2 Plasma Guns
-----In Rhino - (with combi bolter and Havoc Launcher)


10 x Chaos Space Marines
+ Aspiring Champion (w/ plasma gun)
+ Mark of Nurgle
+2 Plasma Guns
-----In Rhino - (with combi bolter and Havoc Launcher)


7x Berzerkers
+1 Aspiring Champion (w/ chainaxe)


Elites:


1x Helbrute
+Twin-Linked Lascannon
+Missile Launcher


Fast Attack:

7x Chaos Bikers
+ Mark of Nurgle
+1 Biker Champion (w/ combi melta)
+2 meltas


Heavy Support:

1x Chaos Land Raider - 240 points (this will carry the zerkers and Lord)
+Dirge Caster
+Dozer Blade

2x Vindicator (w/ Havoc Launcher and Daemonic Possession)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/30 16:17:54


 
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch




Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology

AutarchRion wrote:
 changerofways wrote:
You would have to give your lord a mark of khorne for the berzerkers to be troops. Furthermore, the Lightning Claw is really un-intimidating. Give him the Axe of Blind Fury.
I agree with the above on the landraider
If you're going to take a vindicator, you need to get daemonic possession, its what makes CSM vindicators the best in the game.

If you take a single penn hit your chance of firing your vindicator's demolisher cannon next round is

AP3+
without daemonic possession: 16.67%
with daemonic possession and attached weapon: 63.89%

AP2
without daemonic possession: 16.67%
with daemonic possession and attached weapon: 47.22%

AP1
without daemonic possession: 16.67%
with daemonic possession and attached weapon: 30.55%

Also, you should really take 2. CSM need redundancy to be effective because your stuff will die so you need duplicates.



If I were to add another vindicator, what would you propose that I remove? The chosen sqaud?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, what would you all suggest... Plague Marines or the normal Vanilla CSM?


First of all, my math up there is wrong. Check out this thread I made http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/607867.page

Secondly, also consider not taking any vindicators. But if you were to take a second one, yes, drop the chosen.

Finally, yes I would take Plague Marines over vanilla CSM.

Also, something I didn't see earlier was the helbrute. If you really want to take them, I would take one of the formations as its giving them free upgrades, man, you gotta take them. But if you don't want to take the 3 or 5 that they require and just want 1, you gotta go shooty. There is just no way to get them into CC without the formations. Take a missile launcher! Get rid of that power fist. Also consider dropping that TL Lascannon for a Plas cannon or a Reaper AC if you're hurting for points elsewhere.

"We are the Red Sorcerers of Prospero, damned in the eyes of our fellows, and this is to be how our story ends, in betrayal and bloodshed. No...you may find it nobler to suffer your fate, but I will take arms against it." -Ahzek Ahriman
1250 Points of The Prodigal Sons  
   
Made in ca
Pulsating Possessed Space Marine of Slaanesh







Whoops... there doesn't seem to be anything here.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/10 17:41:41


3000pts
500 pts
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles 
   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





I would remove the havoc launchers from the vindicators. If you plan on using the demolisher cannon, you can only fire snapshots with your other weapons since it's ordnance. So really you can't get much use from them. A combibolter would be a better choice if you wanted a second weapon.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




Naples, FL

@Evil Kiwi.... I forgot about the ordinance snapshot rule. Thanks for reminding me.

@changerofways You said to condsider not taking vindicators? What would you recommend instead? I thought vindicators were the best Heavy Support vehicle that I could get with CSM, what are your thoughts?

@Sillycybin The chosen have the infiltrate special rule. At least, I have always thought that was the case... don't have the codex in front of me, so I cannot verify.


I'm getting codexes confused here.... but can you take Plague marines as troops or do you need to give the HQ the MoN in order to do that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To further clarify the question... would you take Vanilla CSMs with the MoN or Plague Marines?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/30 17:23:15


 
   
Made in ca
Pulsating Possessed Space Marine of Slaanesh







Whoops... there doesn't seem to be anything here.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/10 17:42:02


3000pts
500 pts
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





 Sothas wrote:
I'm not quote sure what the chosen squad is for or will do. Infiltrate and then instantly explode? That seems like the most likely scenario. Those points could go to literally anything else and would probably be better. My vote is a helldrake.


No flyers tournament!

You helturkitarian!

Take the quiz to find out if you are a helturkitarian.

1. When play WH40k, do you believe the ideal CSM army to have infinite Heltrukies?
2. When your opponent shoots down all your helturkies, do you wish for more?
3. The best place to hide your heltrukey, is in reserves?
4. Do you dream of helturkies at night?
5. When some one calls you a helturkey, you take it as a complement?
etc...

If you answer yes to any of these questions, then you might be a helturkitarian!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/30 17:48:30


 
   
Made in mx
Morphing Obliterator





Mexico

AutarchRion wrote:
@Evil Kiwi.... I forgot about the ordinance snapshot rule. Thanks for reminding me.

@changerofways You said to condsider not taking vindicators? What would you recommend instead? I thought vindicators were the best Heavy Support vehicle that I could get with CSM, what are your thoughts?

@Sillycybin The chosen have the infiltrate special rule. At least, I have always thought that was the case... don't have the codex in front of me, so I cannot verify.


I'm getting codexes confused here.... but can you take Plague marines as troops or do you need to give the HQ the MoN in order to do that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To further clarify the question... would you take Vanilla CSMs with the MoN or Plague Marines?


Looks like you need to give the codex a good read, I think you remember the 4th ed codex where indeed plagues were troops and chosens had infiltration.

The best troops order imho is Plague=Noise>Cultists>Chaos Marines>Berserkers>Rubric Marines, all the cult marines assuming you pay the tax on the lord to make them troops, otherwise you are left with cultists as your best bet.

That being said I usually play more CSM and less cultists because I like the models and the idea of a evil marine is great.

CSM 10k points
IG 3k points
Orks 2k points
WoC 3.5k points
VC 2.5k points
 
   
Made in us
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




Naples, FL

So you think the additional points for plague/noise marines is justified? They just seem pretty pricey....
   
Made in mx
Morphing Obliterator





Mexico

AutarchRion wrote:
So you think the additional points for plague/noise marines is justified? They just seem pretty pricey....


They are indeed pricey, but plagues are very durable and most of the time will hold an objective unless the rest of your army gets obliterated and even there they will probably the last to fall. The noise marines are great due to being fearless and not being as expensive as the plague marines, if you get them sonic weaponry they become expensive but are pretty good at staying in mid range objectives and just shooting all they got at any incoming threats.

I personally use more plague marines, but that is only because I see the investment on a MoS Lord as a waste to make them troops. With the new rules where everything is scoring I might get some from FW and field them as elites, even without objective secure I think they are a great unit

CSM 10k points
IG 3k points
Orks 2k points
WoC 3.5k points
VC 2.5k points
 
   
Made in us
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




Naples, FL

If you give basic marines the MoN they have the same toughness. The key difference the fact that Plague Marines are fearless and have feel no pain. I guess I am just torn between the additional point value...because I do not use Cultists....I need to find ways to up my unit count... and Plague marines would really hurt me there. Do you think Plague vs. Vanilla (w/ MoN) is that big of a difference?
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





for the cost of 1 plague marine you could nearly get 1 and a half marine.

Do you want more bolters, attacks and wounds.
   
Made in mx
Morphing Obliterator





Mexico

 Filch wrote:
for the cost of 1 plague marine you could nearly get 1 and a half marine.

Do you want more bolters, attacks and wounds.


Until that unit gets shot and start losing your normal marines, 1 plaguemarine against bolters just because it is the most common weapon around is 2.25 more durable than your normal marine, that without taking into account that normal marines have ld9 with the champ and they can run with a bad roll or get swept in combat. That is on stats alone without factoring poison and defensive grenades

CSM 10k points
IG 3k points
Orks 2k points
WoC 3.5k points
VC 2.5k points
 
   
Made in us
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




Naples, FL

Right...but if I give the normal marines the mark of nurgle...it makes them more durable. Granted they are not fearless or have feel no pain. I just feel like i need more units with the list above. Having plague marines would severely limit the unit count.
   
Made in au
Horrific Howling Banshee





Why dont you jusy take a huge blob of cultists with close combat weapons, just the other week i saw them kill commander dante at my local gw

Wh40k Eternal Crusade Referral Number: EC-J79JWAXML7RYP 
   
Made in us
Member of the Malleus




SLC, UT

 Sillycybin wrote:
 Sothas wrote:
I'm not quote sure what the chosen squad is for or will do. Infiltrate and then instantly explode? That seems like the most likely scenario. Those points could go to literally anything else and would probably be better. My vote is a helldrake.


Where would the chosen get infiltrate from?


Good call. I'm getting my editions mixed. In that case they stand in the back slowly moving forward, and then explode. Worst case, they get drop podded. Either way, a 5 man lonely chosen squad is completely useless. They're terrible in any scenario. Cypher makes them usable though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Filch wrote:


No flyers tournament!

You helturkitarian!

Take the quiz to find out if you are a helturkitarian.

1. When play WH40k, do you believe the ideal CSM army to have infinite Heltrukies?
2. When your opponent shoots down all your helturkies, do you wish for more?
3. The best place to hide your heltrukey, is in reserves?
4. Do you dream of helturkies at night?
5. When some one calls you a helturkey, you take it as a complement?
etc...

If you answer yes to any of these questions, then you might be a helturkitarian!


First off, that's squad is 175 if I remember correctly, making a helldrake fit nicely into the empty points space left vacant by the chosen.

Second...

1. I've considered only fielding helldrakes for the LoLs. Last edition I ran 4 of them in tournaments cuz I could.
2. I'm confused... shoots down all my helldrakes? Is that a thing that's possible?
3. Hide helldrakes in reserve? But if they're in reserve they can't burninate anything. Reserve... that's madness.
4. Only wet dreams.
5. I don't have wings or a long neck, but being possessed by chaos and breathing fire does sound like a nice evening.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/31 20:24:59


"Huddle close to your Emperor if he makes you feel safe. He cannot save you, for only Chaos is eternal."

Cross: Noun. A thing you nail people to.

Iron Warriors 3k Yme-Loc 6k
Grey Knights 2k <3 Harlequin WIP
Vampire Counts 3K Dwarfs 2k
 
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch




Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology

AutarchRion wrote:
Right...but if I give the normal marines the mark of nurgle...it makes them more durable. Granted they are not fearless or have feel no pain. I just feel like i need more units with the list above. Having plague marines would severely limit the unit count.


You speak as if there is some sort of thresh-hold to pass to have an acceptable army! You can have a low model count army.

The whole idea of having expendable units is that the rest of your army together forms a strategy or formation, and when key units start to die that strategy crumbles and your control on the game fades. So you shove models that are easy to kill at your opponent, minimizing their deaths with cover saves (which are free). While your opponent enjoys himself removing 40 models off the table, you win the game with your key units.

If you really want lots of units then zombies and cultists are the way to go in a competitive setting. If you like the idea of MoN CSM that's fine, but they just aren't as good, buddy.

"We are the Red Sorcerers of Prospero, damned in the eyes of our fellows, and this is to be how our story ends, in betrayal and bloodshed. No...you may find it nobler to suffer your fate, but I will take arms against it." -Ahzek Ahriman
1250 Points of The Prodigal Sons  
   
Made in nl
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe





Amsterdam

Haha good stuff about the turkeys

Chaos was the law of nature; Order was the dream of man.

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