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2014/08/17 07:10:28
Subject: [2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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2k AM with some wolves as allies in pods. I have 3 pods so Im trying to make the best use of them with the little bit of wolves that I had from before.
Space Wolves allied detachment: 725pts
Wolf Priest 110
x10 grey hunters 225pts
x2 plasma
x10 ccw's
pod
x10 grey gunters 215
x2 plasma
x10 ccw's
pod
x5 wolf guard 175points (priest will go here)
x5 combi weapons(Im pretty confident I will be using plasma)
pod
AM CAD
Vanquisher 400
pask
lascannon
Multi melta sponsons
Dozer
Vanquisher
lascannon
Multimelta sponsons
Dozer
Vets 180
x3 plasma
chimera
Dozer
Vets 180
x3 plasma
chimera
Dozer
Vets 180
x3 plasma
chimera
Dozer
Eradicator 145
Heavy bolters
Dozer
Vendetta
10points left?
Comments are welcome! I am also going to build a list with the same space wolf allies but use a gunline style guard army to see if they work better with mech guard or a gunline based guard army.
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2014/08/18 03:34:46
Subject: Re:[2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Any comments?
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2014/08/18 22:42:49
Subject: [2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
EARTH- America- Rochester MI
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Not too familiar with new wolves codex. best id have for you is to drop a plasma gun from each vet squad and insert a techpriest and servitor. leaves you 5 extra points. not very helpful though. I like pask in a vanquisher, not sure how i feel about the second tank also being a vanquisher, especially a loaded one w LC and MM. maybe change tank type. I know you need the AT support but I think the second one is a waste. maybe change tank type and then swap a vet squad w plasma for one with melta. to cover points differences. thats the best i can come up with.
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2014/08/18 23:32:14
Subject: [2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Given the allies you're going for why not take a few empty Pods for the Vets and give them democharges and plasma for real alphastriking goodness?
Vanquishers are poor now. Pask wants a Punisher as that is far far better as a tank hunter, give his friend a Plasmacutioner to abuse PE.
Wolf Priest is expensive when a Rune Priest could offer more for less.
2 Wyverns would do far more damage than the Eradicator for less points.
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2014/08/19 03:35:45
Subject: [2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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ImpGuardPanzies wrote:Not too familiar with new wolves codex. best id have for you is to drop a plasma gun from each vet squad and insert a techpriest and servitor. leaves you 5 extra points. not very helpful though. I like pask in a vanquisher, not sure how i feel about the second tank also being a vanquisher, especially a loaded one w LC and MM. maybe change tank type. I know you need the AT support but I think the second one is a waste. maybe change tank type and then swap a vet squad w plasma for one with melta. to cover points differences. thats the best i can come up with.
I would agree with you on that I don't like the other vanquisher as I pretty much always swear by having an executioner with plasma sponsons in the tank commanders squadron. But I figured with the wolf guard with 5 combi plasma, a hunter squad with plasma and a couple of vet squads with plasma I figured I had plasma covered and unless I get an eradicator for anti infantry I can't really think of any other russ to use.
Automatically Appended Next Post: FlingitNow wrote:Given the allies you're going for why not take a few empty Pods for the Vets and give them democharges and plasma for real alphastriking goodness?
Vanquishers are poor now. Pask wants a Punisher as that is far far better as a tank hunter, give his friend a Plasmacutioner to abuse PE.
Wolf Priest is expensive when a Rune Priest could offer more for less.
2 Wyverns would do far more damage than the Eradicator for less points.
I disagree with the punisher. It has a very short range and yes it can stack wounds on units but what's the chance of it outright killing a vehicle in one go when it does a better job at killing infantry. I need to kill transports and infantry before they get to my tanks. Not gun the transport down when it's in 24 inches then try to gun down the squad that came out of it the next turn. Then again any transport I've faced moves cruising right at my tanks then flat out moves. Then the following turn they move 6 and unload their infantry. Most common are multiple rhinos and marines or dark eldar with their fast skimmers and hay wire infantry. I need to be able to fire on my opponents transports turn one if I have the range and go first.
I will agree with the wyverns and look to adding them in. At the mean time I'm just trying to add in what I have. I have proxied wyverns and I know the serious damage they do. So I will add them in. I just wanted to include some more heavy armor to soak up fire power.
I disagree with the rune priest. If my opponent doesn't have psykers then sure the rune priest ain't bad but I do come across psyker heavy lists and I have been denied more times than not. So it is essential to get that preferred enemy and guarantee my wolf guard fry whatever they fire at. Why I include the priest as well is because if I need to the following turns my wolf guard will assault. Or if a hunter unit has a better chance of killing a unit in assault the priest will hop over to that unit(as I plan to keep the pods close).
Any other suggestions. I will fix the list to have wyverns but but I will keep the eradicator in as that's what I've got to work with.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/19 03:49:31
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2014/08/19 08:08:56
Subject: [2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Paskisher is the best AT in the game. Last time I played against him turn 1 he killed a Knight just with the Punisher Cannon before even firing the MM and LC, turn 2 he was snap shooting and killed another Knight doing 5 HPs to it himself (who had just failed a 7" charge so was in melta range). He had done over 1000 points of damage in 2 turns and grabbed 9 VPs into the bargain all by himself. He does about 7-8 HPs on a Knight on average before invuns by himself.
Vanquishers don't kill vehicles in 7th, so you can shoot at a vehicle turn 1 and not kill it, then shoot it again turn 2 and hopefully kill it or you can remove a unit a turn with Pask barely needing to roll the dice. If you need to pop transports take Exterminators or other autocannon sources. As is with Vanqs you're relying on 6s or using the full 400 points to have about a 50% chance to hull point 35 points of the enemy to death, that's not a good spend on points.
I understand the reason for the Wolf Priest he's just a bit costly for me. Though I can see how he is maximised in this list going with a unit full of plasma.
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2014/08/20 02:03:00
Subject: [2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
EARTH- America- Rochester MI
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Im not a fan of the paskisher. Either vanquisher or plasmacutioner would be a much better buy. As far as having all your infantry squads with plasma...you might want to swap a couple of those out with meltas and change your second tank to be a plasmacutioner. It will do more damage as a tank, survive longer. and the hit ratio of a plasmacutioner verses a vanqusiher not pimped out with pask is significantly higher.
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2014/08/20 09:20:24
Subject: [2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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You're not a fan of the best HQ choice in the entire game? Why not? Yes he's relatively short ranged but AV14 largely helps that and his damage output is stupid. The best AT unit in the game and probably the best anti heavy Infantry too and one of the best MC killers as well. Have you ever used the Paskisher?
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2014/08/20 14:11:27
Subject: [2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
EARTH- America- Rochester MI
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its only an S5 cannon. yes its rending, but that still makes it harder to pen av 11 and above
yes its dangerous and could totally kill anything below AV14.
but if my main AT striking machine is always within 24" of an enemy, i wont have it for long. Opponents realize its power too. harder to protect. also, if youre moving it up the field and a larger threat becomes present opposite side of the field, it can be hard to chase it down and kill it.
or you could have a vanquisher w lsacannon and snipe the majority (if not entirety depending on placement) of the board. Easier to defend, longer range, and IMO more flexibility because of it.
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2014/08/20 16:55:29
Subject: Re:[2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Alright so I will swap eradicator for wyverns and that will save me some points and then I will swap a squad or two to include meltas instead of plasma.
I will make the second tank a plasmacutioner.
I will try the punisher out and see how I like it. I just have had my fair share of experience with having units get close and assault my tanks to pieces.
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2014/08/20 23:43:49
Subject: [2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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ImpGuardPanzies wrote:its only an S5 cannon. yes its rending, but that still makes it harder to pen av 11 and above
yes its dangerous and could totally kill anything below AV14.
but if my main AT striking machine is always within 24" of an enemy, i wont have it for long. Opponents realize its power too. harder to protect. also, if youre moving it up the field and a larger threat becomes present opposite side of the field, it can be hard to chase it down and kill it.
or you could have a vanquisher w lsacannon and snipe the majority (if not entirety depending on placement) of the board. Easier to defend, longer range, and IMO more flexibility because of it.
Why does S5 matter? Also remember he rerolls pen and will have a LC and pair of MMs too. Yes you have to put him in harms way with a 24" range but he can win you the game in a couple of shooting phases and kills basically anything you point him at. He will on average kill a Landraider a turn so I have no idea what AV14 you think he struggles against? The Vanquisher is not flexible at all. It will reliably strip 1 HP a turn for over 200 points. Maybe put 2 wounds on a unit. Paskisher kills any vehicle short of a Knight that you point him at and can even kill a Knight in a single turn. He also puts 14 wounds on a T4 horde, and 5 AP2 wounds on T6 or less. Yes he's a few more points and has a shorter range but he'll do more damage in a single shooting phase than the Vanquisher will manage in 3! There is a reason all the competitive AM players take the Paskisher.
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2014/08/21 21:24:20
Subject: Re:[2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Yea I just play tested a punisher with pask having a lascannon and multi melta sponsons and it did work. Rerolls ones to hit and to wound. Rerolls all to pen hits. The punisher turn one did 5hull points to a stompa alone and the following turn removed the last 4 hull points to kill it after some other tanks damaged it.
I liked using it. I would just say my only argument is having the enemy get to close to him. So long as it can be guarded it will do damage.
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2014/08/22 00:55:03
Subject: [2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
EARTH- America- Rochester MI
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FlingitNow wrote:
Why does S5 matter? Also remember he rerolls pen and will have a LC and pair of MMs too. Yes you have to put him in harms way with a 24" range but he can win you the game in a couple of shooting phases and kills basically anything you point him at. He will on average kill a Landraider a turn so I have no idea what AV14 you think he struggles against? The Vanquisher is not flexible at all. It will reliably strip 1 HP a turn for over 200 points. Maybe put 2 wounds on a unit. Paskisher kills any vehicle short of a Knight that you point him at and can even kill a Knight in a single turn. He also puts 14 wounds on a T4 horde, and 5 AP2 wounds on T6 or less. Yes he's a few more points and has a shorter range but he'll do more damage in a single shooting phase than the Vanquisher will manage in 3! There is a reason all the competitive AM players take the Paskisher.
Alright I'll give him a shot. how do you run the squad in an 1850? usually.
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2014/08/22 04:16:05
Subject: Re:[2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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I always include the tank commanders buddy as an executioner with plasma sponsons.
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2014/08/22 14:12:05
Subject: Re:[2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Nasty Nob on a Boar
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tankboy145 wrote:I always include the tank commanders buddy as an executioner with plasma sponsons.
Agreed here. He is an awesome commander and does a lot of damage. The 2nd tank can be whatever suits your flavor, but the executioner is a good one.
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No madam, 40,000 is the year that this game is set in. Not how much it costs. Though you may have a point. - GW Fulchester
The Gatling Guns have flamethrowers on them because this is 40k - DOW III
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2014/08/22 14:29:59
Subject: Re:[2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Multiple games I've had the executioner with plasma sponsons outright destroy a whole tactical marine squad. So between the punisher and the executioner I could almost see two marine squads get mulched by this squadron.
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2014/08/22 19:11:29
Subject: [2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Remember PE on the Plasmacutioner effectively twin links it as you get rerolls on gets hot and scatter. So it is the best buddy for Pask, 5 twin linked PCs should kill a unit a turn.
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2014/08/22 19:30:17
Subject: [2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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FlingitNow wrote:Remember PE on the Plasmacutioner effectively twin links it as you get rerolls on gets hot and scatter. So it is the best buddy for Pask, 5 twin linked PCs should kill a unit a turn.
Has that been FAQ'd yet? Because it's somewhat a little debatable.
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2014/08/22 22:17:01
Subject: [2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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No FAQ but it reads that way and as they us Bs6+ as an example trigger it appears to be the RaI as well as obviously being the RaW.
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2014/08/23 12:30:37
Subject: [2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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tankboy145 wrote:2k AM with some wolves as allies in pods. I have 3 pods so Im trying to make the best use of them with the little bit of wolves that I had from before.
Space Wolves allied detachment: 725pts
Wolf Priest 110
x10 grey hunters 225pts
x2 plasma
x10 ccw's
pod
x10 grey gunters 215
x2 plasma
x10 ccw's
pod
x5 wolf guard 175points (priest will go here)
x5 combi weapons(Im pretty confident I will be using plasma)
pod
AM CAD
Punisher 435
pask
lascannon
Multi melta sponsons
Dozer
Executioner
Plasma cannon sponsons
Dozer
Vets 165
x3 melta
chimera
Dozer
Vets 180
x3 plasma
chimera
Dozer
Vets 180
x3 plasma
chimera
Dozer
x2 wyverns 130
Vendetta
15pts left?
Comments are welcome! I am also going to build a list with the same space wolf allies but use a gunline style guard army to see if they work better with mech guard or a gunline based guard army. Automatically Appended Next Post: Alright edited list!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/23 12:31:05
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2014/08/23 15:08:47
Subject: [2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
EARTH- America- Rochester MI
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15points left? why not some camo netting on a single artillery. put him in front of the other. I think its 15 points
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2014/08/23 16:00:01
Subject: [2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Or give Pask camo netting as he'll take shots and is worth protecting.
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2014/08/23 20:19:26
Subject: Re:[2000] - Astra Militarum - AM with Wolf allies in pods
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Yea pask would probably be the better investment of having camo netting.
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