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As in infantry. I mean they specialize in doing highly detailed resin casts of more esoteric units and frankly the current GW minis are so outrageously expensive that they'd probably actually be cheaper as well as of a higher quality. I mean when Sisters of Silence come out with the Prospero supplement it wouldn't surprise me at all if people start using them to represent battle sisters.

Because they aren't interested in doing so, I guess.

Besides, who cares about SIsters of Battle models when we could have moar marines?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Because they aren't interested in doing so, I guess.

Besides, who cares about SIsters of Battle models when we could have moar marines?

I heard they were going to do Sisters of Silence as part of the Prospero supplement along with Custodes. Pretty much are sisters of battle and they've done specialist tanks for them. Just no infantry.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Because they aren't interested in doing so, I guess.

Besides, who cares about SIsters of Battle models when we could have moar marines?

I heard they were going to do Sisters of Silence as part of the Prospero supplement along with Custodes. Pretty much are sisters of battle and they've done specialist tanks for them. Just no infantry.

Actually, to be a bit of a nitpicker, Sisters of Silence and Sisters of Battle have nothing to do with one another in the fluff. There is no connection, nor has there ever been. The only thing they have in common is the name "Sisters of..."

They're women in form fitting power armor whose job it is to deal with psykers and they have a close personal bond with the Emperor. Also the book which introduced them (Eisenstein?) was written by James Swallow who wrote the Sisters of Battle books as well. He characterized them as being basically SoB, especially those that believe in the Imperial Creed. It would really not surprise me if its later revealed that this insititution is in some way connected to the origins of the cult on San Leor and ultimately the SoB. They are basically the same faction.

Probably because GW has not yet taken their metal SoB models out of production/sale.

FW has created tons of stuff for Marines and some for the Guard, so I doubt it would be a GW policy preventing them from doing something more for the Sisterhood (if not alternate plastic troops, then at least more characters or a special unit). They've made the Repressor (which actually had some decent fluff to go with it) and some alternate tank doors, but that's about it.

I'm with BlaxicanX in that it is simply a lack of interest. Judging from their portrayal in Forge World's Imperial Armour books, I kind of doubt that the FW team has a good understanding of how SoB work in the main studio's interpretation of the setting, anyways, so I'm a bit sceptical as to whether they would even be "able" to pull it off if they'd attempt it, at least as far as my own sense of "proper SoB style" is concerned. The Repressor was a long time ago (anyone know who was responsible for its design and background?) and so, in light of more recent products, could well have been a fluke.

Totalwar1402 wrote:They're women in form fitting power armor whose job it is to deal with psykers and they have a close personal bond with the Emperor. Also the book which introduced them (Eisenstein?) was written by James Swallow who wrote the Sisters of Battle books as well. He characterized them as being basically SoB, especially those that believe in the Imperial Creed. It would really not surprise me if its later revealed that this insititution is in some way connected to the origins of the cult on San Leor and ultimately the SoB. They are basically the same faction.

Unfortunately, some of the HH novel authors do indeed seem desperate to forge additional connections to "modern" 40k, so this possibility cannot be excluded. I suppose it depends on what the novels will do with the SoS next. The main GW studio will probably continue to ignore them ever having been mentioned anywhere, but seeing as FW is doing several miniatures based on the novels, it seems natural that the SoS would be part of this product line.

That being said, from what I have heard the Sisters of Silence are exclusively Nulls, an aspect decidedly not present in the Battle Sisters - same as the eponymous silence, which with the SoS took the form of a vow, whereas the SoB rely on loudly proclaimed hymns and prayers as part of their faith-based combat doctrine. Lastly, the Battle Sisters' job is not to "deal with psykers", but to be the militant arm of the Imperium's state church, of which hunting down witches is but one of many aspects, and arguably not the most important. In fact, they had neither this duty, nor access to power armour, when they were found on San Leor in M34 - the power armour and psyker-hunts are pure coincidence based on the decisions of Vandire and Thor.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
As in infantry. I mean they specialize in doing highly detailed resin casts of more esoteric units and frankly the current GW minis are so outrageously expensive that they'd probably actually be cheaper as well as of a higher quality. I mean when Sisters of Silence come out with the Prospero supplement it wouldn't surprise me at all if people start using them to represent battle sisters.

Probably for the same reason Games Workshop hasn't done it. There's not enough potential profit in it. Not that there's no profit, only that they can make more money churning our Horus Heresy minis and stuff for the existing mainstream armies.

Every one else has added constructive, practical reasons as to why Forgeworld won't make them, but I, being completely irrational, probably wouldn't buy them anyway. Simply because they're resin. I have nothing against the material, it's brilliant, but my sisters are metal. I had a mate drop me some links to a recaster, and considered it, but I like my sisters to have that weight. Irrationality over.

Back to topic. Yes, expensive to make originals, limited profit margin, I imagine that the Heresy is taking a lot of time (hurry up with Dark Angels, dammit), and simple lack of interest. Sisters are so niche that I daresay many people have forgotten they exist until stocktake. They have no mention in Escalation, despite the boast for 'every army', and have yet to make an appearance in Warhammer: Visions. It doesn't really bother me, to be honest. I have an enormous backlog anyway, so I'd appreciate them holding out for a while.

Sisters of Silence, as has been said, are all psychic nulls or blanks. Sisters of Battle aren't. Also, SoS were founded around the time of the Great Crusade. SoB were founded in M36. SoB worship the Emperor as a god, SoS didn't. SoB also have orders Hosiptaler and Digolous, so go beyond hunting down psykers. SoS didn't. Suggesting they are basically the same faction shows a lot of ignorance of the fluff.

Back OT, answer is probably perceived lack of sales in comparison to marines. Plus, FW would have to do a complete revamp of Sisters sculpts, which would detract from GWs main line. FW do addons and lesser known factions, but don't compete with GW as they are the same company. There's no real other faction of the Sisters to explore except the Inquisition, which they have done. Maybe they could do the Order Hospitaler, but who wants to buy a load of nurses?

Yeah, I'm also hoping that they don't connect the SoB to the SoS. The SoB are fine with their original origin as a reclusive cult that hit the big time, not as a separate organisation that somehow settled down and lost all of its knowledge and tech. No need to complicate both factions just for the sake of some arbitrary connection.

As for FW, probably because GW hasn't some so yet. Were there an SoB update at GW, we may see some SoB stuff from FW.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Probably for the same reason Games Workshop hasn't done it. There's not enough potential profit in it. Not that there's no profit, only that they can make more money churning our Horus Heresy minis and stuff for the existing mainstream armies.

That's not why they haven't done it. They've been perfectly willing to update other "risky" armies before, like the DE and the heavily rumoured upcoming Bretonians. Jes Goodwin has also said very recently that he would want to commit a significant amount of time into updating the model range, but hasn't felt that he's had the opportunity to do that yet. So it's actually just a lack of action with the sculptors. Were the sculptors to get down to it, there would be an update.

How did SoS switch to SoB. Black ships in HH were maned by SoS, in the SoB books they have a SOB bodyguard. Did SoS die out or something?

Makumba wrote:
How did SoS switch to SoB. Black ships in HH were maned by SoS, in the SoB books they have a SOB bodyguard. Did SoS die out or something?

They were present during the Seige of Terra but it's not known whether they were completely destroyed or not. My guess is the remaining ones were rolled up into the Culexus assassins.

Oh, forgot the biggest difference in my first post - SoB talk, SoS don't.

Troike wrote:Were there an SoB update at GW, we may see some SoB stuff from FW.

The potential is already there.

I find it more likely they're just not interested on a personal level. Ever since Andy Hoare left GW, Sisters lost their "advocate" in the main studio, and the FW team never had one to begin with (and it shows in the Vraks fluff). It's simply the disadvantage to the otherwise rather cool approach of designers able to influence the studio in terms of what they want to do next, which is how Games Workshop seems to operate (mingled with occasional directives from the beancounters at marketing).

tyrannosaurus wrote:They were present during the Seige of Terra but it's not known whether they were completely destroyed or not. My guess is the remaining ones were rolled up into the Culexus assassins.

That'd be my theory as well, if I were to consider the SoS as having existed in the setting. GW's original material on the Assassin temples mentioned that Blanks are ridiculously rare, so I could easily see whatever survivors were left after the Heresy to be funneled into the newly founded Inquisition and the Culexus temple.

As for the Black Ships, in codex and BFG fluff their normal guardians are said to be ISTs, but that SoB occasionally accompany them as well (just not as a standard garrison - I'd assume they have too many other jobs, and too few personnel, given the numbers we've seen in the force disposition charts).

 Lynata wrote:
Ever since Andy Hoare left GW, Sisters lost their "advocate" in the main studio

Andy may have been their biggest advocate but I don't think he's the only one who feels positively about them. Having emailed Kelly back and forth a bit I feel he's pretty "pro-Sisters" and Cruddace at least collects them so there is at least a small level of interest there as well. I think what was lost when Andy left wasn't someone who was batting for the army, but rather someone who knew how to progress with the army (as evidenced by the rules team's flop of a codex they put out in 6th). I hope that'll change when a proper update comes (and I've already pitched my ideas to them with reasoning on how to fix the army without making it broken (since all the disadvantages of Sisters remained intact (T3, short range, ect) in my updated version), but we'll wait and see.

I've shot Kelly an email about the models to hopefully clear up if the "casting issue" was ever actually resolved and if not, if they plan to tweak the design to make it work. I don't know if he'll be able to say anything but it's a question I thought was worth asking.

Regarding Hoare being an advocate, I'll repeat what I said previously about my being skeptical that such a figure could be a "tipping point" on SoB models. From recent comments, it seems like the hold-up is soley on the sculpting end. I'm unsure how effective an enthusiast would be in actually pushing them to get down to making the things.

 Lynata wrote:
nd the FW team never had one to begin with (and it shows in the Vraks fluff)

In fairness, they can also write the SoB well. Their fluff for the Repressor was really good, as was their more recent SoB fluff in Imperial Armor 2 2nd edition.

As I said, I could see FW doing some SoB stuff, were there to be a main GW release. But, as they are now, the SoB seem to be for the most part on the backburner.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I don't know if he'll be able to say anything but it's a question I thought was worth asking.

He didn't seem to really know the specifics back when he was asked at Enter the Citadel in 2013, he was just aware that there was an issue of some kind. But sure, it's still a question worth asking.

Oh, also, Goodwin didn't mention modelling issues when he was asked about it quite recently at a seminar. Apparently he only cited the fact that he would really want to set aside a good amount of time to fully re-work them as an issue. Though, granted, he may simply have chosen not to mention any modelling issues.

 Troike wrote:
He didn't seem to really know the specifics back when he was asked at Enter the Citadel in 2013, he was just aware that there was an issue of some kind. But sure, it's still a question worth asking.

I'm hoping that since he's being put less on the spot about it he'll be able to give more of an answer on the whole deal, but that that's just my own hopes I guess.

 Troike wrote:
Oh, also, Goodwin didn't mention modelling issues when he was asked about it quite recently at a seminar. Apparently he only cited the fact that he would really want to set aside a good amount of time to fully re-work them as an issue. Though, granted, he may simply have chosen not to mention any modelling issues.

Hm, true, but that may have to do with a potential redesign too (which would keep Sisters from FW in a way because there is no point in FW jumping on the bandwagon of doing them if they have to redo everything because of design changes). We'll see what shakes loose I guess.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Probably for the same reason Games Workshop hasn't done it. There's not enough potential profit in it. Not that there's no profit, only that they can make more money churning our Horus Heresy minis and stuff for the existing mainstream armies.

That's not why they haven't done it. They've been perfectly willing to update other "risky" armies before, like the DE and the heavily rumoured upcoming Bretonians. Jes Goodwin has also said very recently that he would want to commit a significant amount of time into updating the model range, but hasn't felt that he's had the opportunity to do that yet. So it's actually just a lack of action with the sculptors. Were the sculptors to get down to it, there would be an update.

This argument isn't worth having. I'll present an airtight, extensive business explanation with multiple examples for why the DE and Sisters are not comparable examples, and why the Sisters have been stuck in the same repeating cycle for over a decade, and you will ignore it and say I'm wrong because reasons and emotions. I've played this game before, and it only ends up with a bunch of Sisters players with hurt feelings and an annoying PM from a moderator on why I shouldn't pick on you guys.

There. I've now saved us countless posts. You're welcome.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
This argument isn't worth having. I'll present an airtight, extensive business explanation with multiple examples for why the DE and Sisters are not comparable examples, and why the Sisters have been stuck in the same repeating cycle for over a decade, and you will ignore it and say I'm wrong because reasons and emotions. I've played this game before, and it only ends up with a bunch of Sisters players with hurt feelings and an annoying PM from a moderator on why I shouldn't pick on you guys.

There. I've now saved us countless posts. You're welcome.

What you're saying just doesn't match up with what GW does (updating all armies sooner or later) and what he developers have said on several occasions (the hold-up being on the sculpting end). And I am more inclined to believe what the developers have said than your theories on the matter.

And I don't recall your arguments being all that "air-tight", they basically amounted to claims that the Sisters don't sell well is why they're held back, but this is disproven by cases such as the Dark Eldar, as well as developer comments basically saying "we want to do them, but there is a hold-up on the modelling end".

Edit: Here is such a dev comment, but the way. Now, why is Jes saying that updating the SoB is something that he could do and would like to do if the management have supposedly banned the idea?

Probably because GW hasn't made a full release for them to piggy-back on. Forge world makes kits for more obscure and specialized units. How can they do that when GW can't make proper core products?

You might notice that a squad of ten metal imperial guard from the 1990s is about £20 on the GW website. While a squad of ten metal sisters (also from the 90s) is around £50.

My theory is that GW use SoB in order to test the Space Marine market to destruction. Which is why they never seem to update the models, even though they'd probably be very popular. If SoB got a new release with a new plastic range, as GK did a few years ago, then I would expect them to be at least as popular as GK. There is certainly something weird going on with the SoB range.

Either that or GW are just too stupid to figure out that the SoB range sells badly because it's 10 times the price of the other ranges and never gets updated. They're probably sitting around going "SoB aren't selling well? Obviously our target audience (comprising mostly single young males) isn't interested in hot women with guns and boob armour, ergh they're so fickle... We'd better put the price up again so profits don't slump".

 Smacks wrote:
hot women with guns

 Smacks wrote:
hot women

 Smacks wrote:
hot

Their regular marines are so darn ugly...some heads might just be men with a wig.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Their regular marines are so darn ugly...some heads might just be men with a wig.

Hahaha!

I believe the stock answer here is "Your mileage may vary". They are usually quite presentable in the artwork (I admit that wasn't always the case with the old sculpts ).

My point was that 'principally' they are exactly the kind of thing that appeals to adolescent boys (including older adolescent boys in their 30s and 40s). It is in fact the high cost, lack of updates, and fugly metal models that is preventing them from selling.

And I'm sure with modern technology we could get them much cuter

 BlaxicanX wrote:


Besides, who cares about SIsters of Battle models when we could have moar marines?

Or , perhaps, to put that in an only slightly different way ; Sisters aren't updated because they ARE very successful. They WILL sell , update or no update.
Whereas most of the other lines , especially space marines , are indicative of what, for lack of a better term, I'll call the Dallas Cowboys phenomenon ; once apon a time every third American football fan was wearing a Dallas Cowboys T-shirt , because everybody liked the Dallas Cowboys ( or so mindless lemming conformity would have it ) and because the Dallas Cowboys were winners.
Trouble was , of course , that all that rote conformity was predicated on the assumption that the Dallas Cowboys were popular and that they were winners.
That is ; The Dallas Cowboys HAD TO keep winning.
Of course they couldn't do that forever.
So now, yes, every third American football fan is NOT wearing a Dallas Cowboys T-shirt.

They HAVE TO keep updating Space Marines , because Space Marine fans aren't Cleveland Browns or Tampa Bay Buccaneers fans. Quit giving them a new bone every six months and watch the bottom fall out.

Ignoring the whole sisters of silence or sisters of battle debate.

The fact forgeworld hasn't done figures for the sisters of battle at all rather suggests one of two things;
- Gw has told them not to - maybe they would like to eventually do a massive reboot for them?
Or
- They just don't see a big enough market for them.

I hope the first is true but it could equally be the second.

Saying anything about the fact forgeworld do produce sister's tanks means nothing, as they are from an era when forgeworld only did tanks. At the time, gw hadn't bothered replacing the metal parts that went with the old rhino, so when they brought in the current rhino model, Forgeworld stepped up and did their own version of the parts but for the new rhino instead.

My sisters of battle army uses old and new metal sisters and the forgeworld tanks, and yeah I would love to add more to it without paying the stupid money gw is asking for the last of their mono-metal sisters.

There's also the fact that the Sisters of Battle and the Sisters of Silence have completely different aesthetics.

Sisters of Silence have a lot more fur, signficantly different helmet designs, and completely different wargear to the Sisters of Battle.

The standard Sister of Silence weapon is a spear or halberd. They're very much melee focussed. The standard Sister of Battle weapon is the bolter - they're ranged focussed. The standard Sister of Silence helmet is basically half-meter-tall cone with a grille and eye holes on the front, compared to the sleek, curved, hooded falcon helmets of the Battle Sisters.

The only similarities are "female" and "armoured".

Furyou Miko wrote: Sisters of Silence have a lot more fur,

Hey, it was the 70s, that was just the style of the time...

It costs a considerable amount of money to sculpt and produce things. Considering sisters are the least played army in 40k by a pretty wide margin, it just doesn't seem profitable. Every sisters player on earth would have to buy the set for FW to make any decent profit on it. They could make marines and sell a metric crap load of them, or spend the same production cost and make sisters but get 1/10th the ROI.

Considering sisters are the least played army in 40k by a pretty wide margin

Citation needed.

I mean, I have no reason to doubt the claim, but without empirical data to back it up, it's nothing more than anecdote.

On the other hand, DE weren't selling at all well, lo these many years gone, GW released an entirely new model line for them and, bang, they were top-sellers for a really long time.