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***Edit *** I took some of the advice posted and had a battle last night!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqLejfcdGC0

Hello, so if you have been following the news and rumors thread you will have probably seen scans of the new GK codex. Many of the units have gotten much, much worse but let's focus on the positive : Draigo, librarians, terminators, and dreadknights.

Draigo knows gate of infinity by default, and naturally pairs well with Centurions. Majority toughness 5, 2+/3++, teleporting grav cannons. This makes me want to ally space marines. Teleporting in Draigo will need support so shunting dreadknights and drop pods seem natural.

I believe the NDK will be focused and potentially lose 1-2 on the first turn, then should be in CC for the rest of the game and don't want to make them too pricey with dual guns but you could try to convince me otherwise.

Draigo - 245
Librarian, ML3, domina liber daemonica (an extra sanctic power), hammer 165

5 terminators - 165
5 strikes, incinerator - 115

NDK teleporter, sword, incinerator - 190
NDK teleporter, sword, incinerator - 190
NDK teleporter, sword, incinerator - 190

Allies
Libby, ML2 - 90
Command squad, 5 melta, drop pod, locator beacon - 190

5 scouts - 55

3 centurions, grav cannons hurricane bolters - 250

Looks pretty fun. Mixed troops seams odd to me, but I dont really know what to drop to make those strikes terminators.

Looks good.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Looks pretty fun. Mixed troops seams odd to me, but I dont really know what to drop to make those strikes terminators.

Yeah I would rather have more terminators but I'd have to sacrifice the allied Centurions or weapons on the NDKs. A 5 man strike with s6 flamer deep striking can still do some damage, especially with 3 MCs, (4counting draigo) and the command squad/cents acting as fire magnets.

GK got hit hard, but you hit your enemies with that epic list harder, okay?

lliu wrote:
GK got hit hard, but you hit your enemies with that epic list harder, okay?

Gotta go down swingin' brother!

Why not run the Nemesis Strike Force detachment, take 1 unit of 10 terminators, and then have it deep strike turn 1 to potentially avoid getting them killed by an enemy alpha strike (not that they matter in the long run?)

I guess you'd lose a Dreadknight for not much benefit, but you may be able to use the points somewhere else? Stormraven for anti-flier?

edit: also, what chapter tactics will you be taking?

Rihgu wrote:
Why not run the Nemesis Strike Force detachment, take 1 unit of 10 terminators, and then have it deep strike turn 1 to potentially avoid getting them killed by an enemy alpha strike (not that they matter in the long run?)

I guess you'd lose a Dreadknight for not much benefit, but you may be able to use the points somewhere else? Stormraven for anti-flier?

edit: also, what chapter tactics will you be taking?

Losing a dreadknight would be the deal breaker for me personally. Relying on a 3+ for reserves t1 means you aren't guaranteed turn 2 assaults with the start on board + shunt move. The strike force could lead to some strong builds, but would probably be pure GK with no need for allies.

The chapter tactics could be anything, probably iron hands for 6+ FnP or white scars to give Draigo hit and run via the librarian if the matchup called for it.

Its not legal if you ask me.
Draigo is Lord of War and the FOC contains only 2 HS slots.

It's Combined Arms, not NSF

katfude wrote:
It's Combined Arms, not NSF

But I guess you still need at least two HQ's. Draigo isn't.

 wuestenfux wrote:

katfude wrote:
It's Combined Arms, not NSF

But I guess you still need at least two HQ's. Draigo isn't.

He has a librarian in the Grey Knights Combined Arms detachment and a Space marine Librarian in the allied detachment.

Both only require a single HQ.

Winter is correct on all accounts. This is a standard BRB CAD, no formation. 1 HQ and 2 troops minimum for that and 1 HQ 1 troop minimum for the allies.

Agtthot wrote:
Winter is correct on all accounts. This is a standard BRB CAD, no formation. 1 HQ and 2 troops minimum for that and 1 HQ 1 troop minimum for the allies.

But the FOC of the new GK allows only two HS choices.

Grey Knights can still be taken as Combined Arms or Allied detachments. The Nemesis Strike Force detachment is optional.

katfude wrote:
Grey Knights can still be taken as Combined Arms or Allied detachments. The Nemesis Strike Force detachment is optional.

Well, I think you missed the point.

The new FOC looks like this:

1-2 HQ, 0-4 Elite, 1-6 Troop, 0-2 FA, and 0-2 HS.

You do NOT have to use that FOC. It is OPTIONAL.

You can also use Combined Arms like every other army.

 wuestenfux wrote:

katfude wrote:
Grey Knights can still be taken as Combined Arms or Allied detachments. The Nemesis Strike Force detachment is optional.

Well, I think you missed the point.

The new FOC looks like this:

1-2 HQ, 0-4 Elite, 1-6 Troop, 0-2 FA, and 0-2 HS.

I think YOU missed the point. That force org is optional and if you take that FOC you lose objective secured and gain the turn 1 deep strike ability.

You could also just take a normal FOC of 1-2 HQ 2-6 Troop, 0-3 heavy/fast/elite and then you gain objective secured, which is what this list has done.

Why do you lose objective secured? I think you're right Agtthot, if you choose the optional FOC, then you trade the restrictions it comes with for first turn reserves (put a comms relay in the list) but you'd get termies and NDK deepstrking 1st turn, you would have to cut one NDK though which you could swap for another terminator squad or some upgrades

Back on track......

I'm sad for your troops. 5 Scouts. 5 Strikes with incinerators. 5 Naked Termies? Seems really thin to me. It's a really good deathstar, true, and you have a lot of dreadknights....but I think it's thin.

I'd actually go with the nemesis strike formation. Drop a dreadknight, and strip the teleporters off the other two. That gives you 250 points to work with. With that we can turn the second squad into terminators, give everyone psycannons, and sprinkle in melee weapons to taste.

At that point, you have ~140 points left over, so you have some options. 1) you could give the teleporters back to the two dreadknights, 2) you could add in Tiggy as the librarian in the SM detatchment and fish for invisibility to turn the deathstar up to 11. 3) you could add back the incinerator strike squad, 4) or you could turn the scouts into a 10 man drop pod TAC squad that would come in on turn two, and then combat squad to go get objectives.

I think i'm leaning to the TAC squad, honestly. I think your deathstar is deathstar-ie enough, and I think that your dreadknights will get where they need to go by deepstriking. This list just needs more bodies.

Belac Ynnead wrote:
Back on track......

I'm sad for your troops. 5 Scouts. 5 Strikes with incinerators. 5 Naked Termies? Seems really thin to me. It's a really good deathstar, true, and you have a lot of dreadknights....but I think it's thin.

I'd actually go with the nemesis strike formation. Drop a dreadknight, and strip the teleporters off the other two. That gives you 250 points to work with. With that we can turn the second squad into terminators, give everyone psycannons, and sprinkle in melee weapons to taste.

At that point, you have ~140 points left over, so you have some options. 1) you could give the teleporters back to the two dreadknights, 2) you could add in Tiggy as the librarian in the SM detatchment and fish for invisibility to turn the deathstar up to 11. 3) you could add back the incinerator strike squad, 4) or you could turn the scouts into a 10 man drop pod TAC squad that would come in on turn two, and then combat squad to go get objectives.

I think i'm leaning to the TAC squad, honestly. I think your deathstar is deathstar-ie enough, and I think that your dreadknights will get where they need to go by deepstriking. This list just needs more bodies.

In 6th edition I would of agreed with you, but in 7th edition anything can score. You don't really need to spam troop choices anymore as their only advantage is objective secured which you lose if you bring the Nemesis
Strike Force. I feel the advantages of this list over the NSF is everything is going to be in play turn 1 guaranteed, where if you roll a 1-2 on a unit and they don't come in you are missing a huge chunk of your strategy.

If I were to play the strike force I would probably fill out the ranks with 5 man purifier squads with dual incinerators + their nova attack and them being ML2. Lots of bodies like you suggested, good combat and good shooting. I would drop all the dreadknights and add in more 5 man terminators with psycannon/hammer for 205. You need more redundancy for the NSF, because statistically 1 out of 3 units will fail to come in. This would be about 20 more models that have a lot more anti infantry firepower and similar anti-tank but worse at fighting other MCs.

Oh, I shouldn't have said troops - I'm not really worried about objective secured either. I was just saying that I feel like he needed more bodies. That's why I like the TAC option.

And on purifier spam - you're missing one vital problem. Purifiers can't deepstrike. Waaah waaah waaaaaaaah. It sucks. It's the worst. Why have a formation focusing on deepstrike with extra elite slots when only one thing in the slot can deepstrike. Palladin spam? Pfft. If I want to run purifiers I think I'd have to buy Deep Striking termies with dedicated land raiders, and put the purifiers in the raiders.

As for the op's list - I think you can get away with the formation. You'd have 2 terminator units and 2 dreadknights rolling to drop turn one. You also have one of your two droppods coming in automatically. The centurion star starts on the board so it comes in automatically.

I mean, sure, there's a chance that your units come in one at a time. But it's a small chance. And since the OP didn't want to drop a dreadknight, it's probably all academic anyway.

Agtthot wrote:

Draigo - 245
Librarian, ML3, domina liber daemonica (an extra sanctic power), hammer 165

5 terminators - 165
5 strikes, incinerator - 115

NDK teleporter, sword, incinerator - 190
NDK teleporter, sword, incinerator - 190
NDK teleporter, sword, incinerator - 190

Allies
Libby, ML2 - 90
Command squad, 5 melta, drop pod, locator beacon - 190

5 scouts - 55

3 centurions, grav cannons hurricane bolters - 250

Personally I'd consider Tigurius instead of a standard libby, a couple of divination powers on the centurions/Draigo would be utterly brutal, you could spring for a tac squad in a drop pod w/combi-melta, melta if you wanted to keep the drop-podding melta.

 CaptainJay wrote:

Agtthot wrote:

Draigo - 245
Librarian, ML3, domina liber daemonica (an extra sanctic power), hammer 165

5 terminators - 165
5 strikes, incinerator - 115

NDK teleporter, sword, incinerator - 190
NDK teleporter, sword, incinerator - 190
NDK teleporter, sword, incinerator - 190

Allies
Libby, ML2 - 90
Command squad, 5 melta, drop pod, locator beacon - 190

5 scouts - 55

3 centurions, grav cannons hurricane bolters - 250

Personally I'd consider Tigurius instead of a standard libby, a couple of divination powers on the centurions/Draigo would be utterly brutal, you could spring for a tac squad in a drop pod w/combi-melta, melta if you wanted to keep the drop-podding melta.

Yeah, twin-linking / potential ignore cover would take the draigo-star to 11, no doubt. I actually like that a lot, and losing the command squad sucks as they kill nearly any vehicle turn 1, but as stated a tactical with melta/combi-melta isn't the worst impression. I'll try to fit that into the list!

If anyone wanted to see a quick 10 minute video batrep of this army!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqLejfcdGC0

I believe allies now have to follow normal FOC IIRC. If that is the case you would need two troops in your SM detachment.

Allied detachments have not changed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will say I watched the video and it wasn't bad. The mutual bloodbath screams balance in my mind and not over powered or even dominating. (Something you'd like to see show it's face early in a new codex).

The list you played isn't the list listed, too.

The other thing I noticed is that you had no chance at the secondary. Or at least didn't play for it. I have a game tomorrow close to yours but with x10 Interceptors to compete at maelstrom missions.

Painnen wrote:
Allied detachments have not changed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will say I watched the video and it wasn't bad. The mutual bloodbath screams balance in my mind and not over powered or even dominating. (Something you'd like to see show it's face early in a new codex).

The list you played isn't the list listed, too.

The other thing I noticed is that you had no chance at the secondary. Or at least didn't play for it. I have a game tomorrow close to yours but with x10 Interceptors to compete at maelstrom missions.

I took some of the advice suggested and changed my list up. The full list is in the video description of the youtube video if you are interested! Interceptors would be a nice touch, the draigostar is too points heavy, I might drop a character to reduce its bloat. I could of did really good on maelstrom points if I wanted to get shot at by Centurions for a few turns, but I snagged first blood and knew I'd get linebreaker, so I focused everything on the relic.

If the game type was something different like crusade I would of played differently, but in the Relic I just focus in on that if I'm ahead on secondaries.

I'm not so sure the Draigostar is too bloated. Once you failed invis, I would have just gated out and shot them up instead of letting those hammers crack your skull in. You could have DS'd to your side of the relic and been in great position for Draigostar to reform ranks. This would have showed off his OTHER strength, and not just a heavy hitting tanker. The Bloat gets you the spells and charges you need. My list has 16 WC because I certainly want those NDKs buffed and I want invis and sanctuary on the star.

Very happy to see that w/out a supplement for GKs (yet) that I'm in the ballpark for what others might be giving a competitive shot.