ICv2 - Top miniature line sales Spring 2014

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**Pacific**

Hey folks,

Didn't see this posted elsewhere, IcV2 have released the chart of the top selling miniature lines (amongst other things)

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/29331.html

Unsurprising that 40k is still number 1, but also interesting that Star Trek Attack Wing has jumped straight into the chart.

This chart of the Top 5 Non-Collectible Miniature Lines (hobby channel) reflects sales in Spring 2014. The charts are based on interviews with retailers, distributors, and manufacturers.

Top 5 Non-Collectible Miniature Lines – Spring 2014

Title
Publisher
1 - Warhammer 40k
Games Workshop
2 - Star Wars X-Wing
Fantasy Flight Games
3 - Star Trek Attack Wing
WizKids/NECA
4 - Warmachine
Privateer Press
5 - Hordes
Privateer Press

And from the main page, an article about the size of the games market in the US & Canada - not sure how this compares to last year?

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/29326.html

ICv2 has released the results of a study on the size of the hobby game market, including the finding that that the market in the U.S. and Canada totaled around $700 million at retail in 2013, as reported in the recently released Internal Correspondence #85. ICv2 also broke down the market by category, and found that the collectible games category was by far the largest, at $450 million; miniatures were second, at $125 million; board games were third at $75 million; card and dice games fourth at $35 million; and RPGs last at $15 million.

We define "hobby games" as those games produced for a "gamer" market, generally (although not always) sold primarily in the hobby channel of game and card specialty stores. We define the "hobby games market" as the market for those games regardless of whether they’re sold in the hobby channel or other channels.

In order to arrive at the estimate for the total industry, we compiled estimates on five individual categories: collectible games, miniatures, board games, card and dice games, and roleplaying games.

We interviewed many industry insiders to compile these estimates, and without their willingness to speak frankly with us about their own estimates of market size and the reasoning behind them, we would have been unable to complete this project.

We also report on the Spring season in the hobby game market, and found that it remained strong. In collectible games, Magic: The Gathering was not as strong (although definitely not weak), but Pokemon, My Little Pony, and Marvel Dice Masters were taking up the slack. WizKids' Dice Masters, in particular, was red hot (although in very short supply), with some calling it the “hottest game in years.”

Board games continued to grow in 2014, with growth coming from both the hard core games and civilians coming over in large numbers from other markets.

In miniatures, the two big licensed games, Star Wars X-Wing and Star Trek Attack Wing, were the games with the most heat this Spring, as the market anticipated the new edition of Warhammer 40K.

Boss Monster and Adventure Time were the big news in the Card and Dice Games category, with both getting a big reaction and selling out quickly.

And in RPGs, Dungeons & Dragons failed to appear in the Spring Top 5 in the last chart before the release of the new edition, the first time that’s happened since we began charting hobby game sales a dozen years ago.

**Saldiven**

I think that was posted somewhere in the GW year end earnings statement thread, but not sure. It sounds familiar enough that I must have seen it before.

I kind of wish they'd lump WarmaHordes into a single heading. The games really aren't sufficiently different, IMO, to list separately. Heck, you can play each against the other, even in tournament settings. If they were put together, I'd be curious to see how high they ranked, and who would slip into the open 5th slot.

**Wayshuba**

Interesting read as this is the first time we get somewhat of an idea of market share.

GW did $54.2 million in North America last year against a miniatures market of $125 million or a little bit below 50% market share (and less than 10% share of the entire gaming market).

It would be interesting to know what the miniatures market was in North America last year against GW sales to see what the market share loss was year over year.

**Henshini**

I'm glad articles like this pop up to remind people that GW still makes "tons of money" and "more money than anyone else" to remind people how ridiculous it is to see hissy fits like the Kirby resignation when GW doesn't make "all the money".

**NoggintheNog**

Henshini wrote:
I'm glad articles like this pop up to remind people that GW still makes "tons of money" and "more money than anyone else" to remind people how ridiculous it is to see hissy fits like the Kirby resignation when GW doesn't make "all the money".

You are mistaking turnover for profit.

GW need to take in £100 million a year just to cover their own costs, as a percentage of turnover, I'd take a wager they are making less profit than Corvus Belli, Wyrd, FFG and Privateer Press.

**agnosto**

Here's last years' ranking:
1 Warhammer 40k 2 Warmachine 3 Star Wars X-Wing Miniatures 4 Warhammer Fantasy 5 Hordes

Notice what's no longer in the top 5? Yeah, WHFB.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

NoggintheNog wrote:
Henshini wrote:
I'm glad articles like this pop up to remind people that GW still makes "tons of money" and "more money than anyone else" to remind people how ridiculous it is to see hissy fits like the Kirby resignation when GW doesn't make "all the money".

You are mistaking turnover for profit.

GW need to take in £100 million a year just to cover their own costs, as a percentage of turnover, I'd take a wager they are making less profit than Corvus Belli, Wyrd, FFG and Privateer Press.

GW's dependence upon their own brick and mortar stores is a loadstone around their corporate neck.

**cincydooley**

Oh yay! It's the basically worthless selective retailer poll results again!

**agnosto**

cincydooley wrote:
Oh yay! It's the basically worthless selective retailer poll results again!

So you're a no data is better than some data kind of person?

**kestral**

Well, I haven't played WFB in several years now. A lot of people liked the new edition but the emphasis on huge monsters and huge units and crazy magic nerfed it for me. I think it hurt them with people who liked it as a quasi historical thing.

**Shandara**

I like how they claim the market anticipated the new 40k edition, given how much warning we had it was coming...

**cincydooley**

agnosto wrote:
cincydooley wrote:
Oh yay! It's the basically worthless selective retailer poll results again!

So you're a no data is better than some data kind of person?

No. But this data is missing so so much that I think it's effectively worthless. Not considering one of GWs primary revenue streams (direct sales) makes this data far too lacking fore take that seriously.

**agnosto**

cincydooley wrote:
agnosto wrote:
cincydooley wrote:
Oh yay! It's the basically worthless selective retailer poll results again!

So you're a no data is better than some data kind of person?

No. But this data is missing so so much that I think it's effectively worthless. Not considering one of GWs primary revenue streams (direct sales) makes this data far too lacking fore take that seriously.

True though I would assume that most sales in the US are handled through FLGSs for even GW; Oklahoma didn't see a GW until about 2 years ago. We do have GW, North America figures though from their annual report so we can infer a bit of data out of combining the two as Wayshuba noted.

Actionable data? No. Enought to start a coffee table conversation on? Yes.

**NewTruthNeomaxim**

The strong showing of X-wing couldn't happen to a nicer game. Great system. Clean rules. Good value for price. Also, an amazing and welcoming gateway into the broader hobby unlike I have ever seen. Its a wonderful, healthy game that helps create new gamers and maybe future hobbyists.

Star Trek's showing couldn't happen to a worse company. A great core of a game, corrupted by Wizkids into another of their consumer-abuse products.

And Warmahordes continues to have a question-mark as to its true "placing" thanks to the division between "games" which is in reality moot.

Just my $0.02

**cincydooley**

Agree on WizKids. Especially since their models look like a puppy pooped them out.

**Pacific**

Would be good if they could combine Warmahordes, just so we could get to see what would otherwise be at number 5!

Agreed about X-Wing, along with the other games coming along I think FFG have hit an absolutely gold mine there. What's amazing is that no-one did it sooner..

**NewTruthNeomaxim**

cincydooley wrote:
Agree on WizKids. Especially since their models look like a puppy pooped them out.

Well, and if this wasn't just a highly limited metric, I would also feel insulted that they even consider Attack Wing a "non-collectible" game.

Wizkids hasn't made a non-collectible game in their gakky lives. That company exists to prop up unsavory secondary-market sales that take advantage of kids and those with low impulse control.

Last night at the FLGS I watched as a friend played in a "tournament". No less than half of the players were using "Gen-Khan" a $100 promo card given away in ultra-limited numbers last year. The rest were using some net-decked crappy lists that, SHOCKER, ended up illustrating the Wizkids classic, "Our newest xyz is our STRONGEST xyz" balancing.

Reprehensible... People think GW can be a tough company to deal with.

**cincydooley**

Don't get me started on Marvel Dice masters.

**Powerguy**

Pacific wrote:
Would be good if they could combine Warmahordes, just so we could get to see what would otherwise be at number 5!

Agreed about X-Wing, along with the other games coming along I think FFG have hit an absolutely gold mine there. What's amazing is that no-one did it sooner..

Yeah they always do this and its really annoying since there are no actual numbers provided we can't combine them ourselves to see where the game actually is. 40k is probably still a step ahead of the chasers, but it wouldn't surprise me if combined Warmachine and Hordes jump into 3rd or even 2nd on this list. Warmachine and Hordes may be different product lines but they are the same game, they are completely interchangable - you don't go to a Warmachine tournament - you go to a Warmachine and Hordes tournament. It would be like counting all the Imperial factions for 40k seperately from the non Imperial factions (which would be interesting data, but not how you should determine the popularity of the entire game).

**gunslingerpro**

Powerguy wrote:
Pacific wrote:
Would be good if they could combine Warmahordes, just so we could get to see what would otherwise be at number 5!

Agreed about X-Wing, along with the other games coming along I think FFG have hit an absolutely gold mine there. What's amazing is that no-one did it sooner..

Yeah they always do this and its really annoying since there are no actual numbers provided we can't combine them ourselves to see where the game actually is. 40k is probably still a step ahead of the chasers, but it wouldn't surprise me if combined Warmachine and Hordes jump into 3rd or even 2nd on this list. Warmachine and Hordes may be different product lines but they are the same game, they are completely interchangable - you don't go to a Warmachine tournament - you go to a Warmachine and Hordes tournament. It would be like counting all the Imperial factions for 40k seperately from the non Imperial factions (which would be interesting data, but not how you should determine the popularity of the entire game).

We have this conversation every quarter. Two different core rule books. Two different copyrights/creative teams. They were not released simultaneously.

They are made to be played together, yes. But 40k and Warhammer at one time could be played together at one time as well. The intents are different, clearly, but they are different games.

Would it be nice if they were grouped together? Sure. But they won't be, because they are not the same.

**frozenwastes**

cincydooley wrote:No. But this data is missing so so much that I think it's effectively worthless. Not considering one of GWs primary revenue streams (direct sales) makes this data far too lacking fore take that seriously.

The retailer survey is definitely missing the direct sales, but the industry study won't be. Why? GW reported North American sales both by region and sales channel in their report. It's obviously including GW North America retail sales through their own stores. That's the easiest number to get.

**Surtur**

gunslingerpro wrote:
Powerguy wrote:
Pacific wrote:
Would be good if they could combine Warmahordes, just so we could get to see what would otherwise be at number 5!

Agreed about X-Wing, along with the other games coming along I think FFG have hit an absolutely gold mine there. What's amazing is that no-one did it sooner..

Yeah they always do this and its really annoying since there are no actual numbers provided we can't combine them ourselves to see where the game actually is. 40k is probably still a step ahead of the chasers, but it wouldn't surprise me if combined Warmachine and Hordes jump into 3rd or even 2nd on this list. Warmachine and Hordes may be different product lines but they are the same game, they are completely interchangable - you don't go to a Warmachine tournament - you go to a Warmachine and Hordes tournament. It would be like counting all the Imperial factions for 40k seperately from the non Imperial factions (which would be interesting data, but not how you should determine the popularity of the entire game).

We have this conversation every quarter. Two different core rule books. Two different copyrights/creative teams. They were not released simultaneously.

They are made to be played together, yes. But 40k and Warhammer at one time could be played together at one time as well. The intents are different, clearly, but they are different games.

Would it be nice if they were grouped together? Sure. But they won't be, because they are not the same.

40k and fantasy were limited interchangeability and served a completely different role. Warmachine and hordes are fully intended to be played together. The copyright matters to the company, for the purposes of this though, it really doesn't matter. People just want to see a better representation of the games popularity compared to others.

**Platuan4th**

Surtur wrote:

40k and fantasy were limited interchangeability and served a completely different role. Warmachine and hordes are fully intended to be played together. The copyright matters to the company, for the purposes of this though, it really doesn't matter. People just want to see a better representation of the games popularity compared to others.

Perhaps, but sales numbers are determined by product line NOT game. Are they pretty much the same game? Yes, but that has no bearing on what the product lines are.

**Bolognesus**

Distinction without a difference though - and in this case, one that actually obscures relevant information without revealing anything meaningful.

**plastictrees**

Bolognesus wrote:
Distinction without a difference though - and in this case, one that actually obscures relevant information without revealing anything meaningful.

Especially as we're essentially talking about anecdotal data here. If these were hard sales numbers then I can vaguely understand making the distinction.