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---Eldar---

HQ - Farseer w/ Singing Spear, Jetbike, Mantle of the Laughing God

Troops - 9x Windrider Jetbikes w/ 3x Shuriken Cannons

Troops - 9x Windrider Jetbikes w/ 3x Shuriken Cannons

Troops - 9x Windrider Jetbikes w/ 3x Shuriken Cannons

Troops - 9x Windrider Jetbikes w/ 3x Shuriken Cannons

Fast Attack - 9x Warp Spiders

Fast Attack - 8x Warp Spiders

Fast Attack - 8x Warp Spiders

Heavy Support - 3x War Walkers w/ 2x Bright Lances

Heavy Support - 3x War Walkers w/ 2x Bright Lances

Heavy Support - 3x War Walkers w/ 2x Bright Lances


---Necrons---

HQ - Overlord w/ Warscythe, Mindshackle Scarabs, Sempiternal Weave
Dedicated Transport - Catacomb Command Barge

HQ - Overlord w/ Warscythe, Mindshackle Scarabs, Sempiternal Weave
Dedicated Transport - Catacomb Command Barge

Elites - 5x Deathmarks
RC - DespairTek
RC - DespairTek
Dedicated Transport - Night Scythe

Elites - 5x Deathmarks
RC - DespairTek
RC - DespairTek
Dedicated Transport - Night Scythe

Troops - 5 Warriors
RC - StormTek w/ Lightning Field
RC - StormTek
Dedicated Transport - Night Scythe

Troops - 5 Warriors
RC - StormTek
RC - StormTek
Dedicated Transport - Night Scythe

Troops - 5 Warriors
Dedicated Transport - Ghost Ark

Troops - 5 Warriors
Dedicated Transport - Ghost Ark

Heavy Support - Annihilation Barge w/ Tesla Cannon
Heavy Support - Annihilation Barge w/ Tesla Cannon
Heavy Support - Annihilation Barge w/ Tesla Cannon

Necrons

Yeah, the Cron list is stronger, though neither is perfect. I'd feel better if the points spent on the Deathmarks were reallocated to Warriors/Immortals. Also, those Despairteks would look better in this meta if they were Stormteks.

As for the Eldar, If only you could split those jetbikes up into 12 different units; then they'd be sick. But as it stands, serpents are king.

Necrons!!!

i dont know much about necrons, but your eldar list wont win you a tournament.

For Eldar list, wondering how 134 "rending" shots (AP 1 or 2 on 6's) and 18 Lances a turn wouldn't be strong in a tournament setting? For the Necrons, if I drop the deathmarks I lose all the synergy with the despairtek templates, but are you suggesting warriors plus stormtek for more haywire is just better (albeit weaker in a vacuum)? Also, can anyone recommend an ideal wave-serpent build? Mainly, what proportion of things should go in them?

peteralmo wrote:
For Eldar list, wondering how 134 "rending" shots (AP 1 or 2 on 6's) and 18 Lances a turn wouldn't be strong in a tournament setting? For the Necrons, if I drop the deathmarks I lose all the synergy with the despairtek templates, but are you suggesting warriors plus stormtek for more haywire is just better (albeit weaker in a vacuum)? Also, can anyone recommend an ideal wave-serpent build? Mainly, what proportion of things should go in them?

Because everything folds over like wet paper when shot at.

chadbrochill17 wrote:
i dont know much about necrons, but your eldar list wont win you a tournament.

See, allot of stuff you say is smart and I agree completely with. The few things we dont agree with I am just pretty vocal about.

peteralmo wrote:
For the Necrons, if I drop the deathmarks I lose all the synergy with the despairtek templates, but are you suggesting warriors plus stormtek for more haywire is just better (albeit weaker in a vacuum)?

Yes. Purely from a meta perspective. Knights are everywhere. AV12-13 transports (Drop Pods, Ghost Arks, Wave Serpents) are everywhere. So more Stormteks would be devastating to all these mech lists out there now. And additional OS is always good; especially when it's beaming out of scythes on bottom turn 5 with <15 minutes left in the round at a tournament.

I'm not saying your Despairtek+Deathmark synergy isn't credible or clever. It is for say, an RTT. But if you want to take this to a GT, I'm in favor of the change I've been advocating.

Makes sense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So is this considered standard quality mechdar atm? Or should one of the knights be another serpent unit?


HQ - Farseer w/ Jetbike, Singing Spear

Troops - 10x Storm Guardians
Wave Serpent w/ Scatterlaser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields

Troops - 10x Storm Guardians
Wave Serpent w/ Scatterlaser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields

Troops - 10x Storm Guardians
Wave Serpent w/ Scatterlaser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields

Troops - 10x Storm Guardians
Wave Serpent w/ Scatterlaser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields

Troops - 10x Storm Guardians
Wave Serpent w/ Scatterlaser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields

Heavy Support - Wraithknight

Heavy Support - Wraithknight

Heavy Support - Wraithknight

Drop all gaurdians to 5 man dire avenger squads, give the farseer mantle of the laughing god and then yes, it would be.
I love having 3 knights, I woudnt drop one.

Taking into account the stormtek suggestion, I made the appropriate changes and ended up with 90 pts left over, I gave the two barge lords phase shifters to make them nigh invincible, though the 90 points could be another annihilation barge or two destroteks one with solar pulse. List looks like this, and do you think the 90 points should spent differently?


HQ - Overlord w/ Warscythe, Mindshackle Scarabs, Semp Weave, Phase Shifter
Catacomb Command Barge

HQ - Overlord w/ Warscythe, Mindshackle Scarabs, Semp Weave, Phase Shifter
Catacomb Command Barge

Troops - 5 Warriors
RC - StormTek
RC - StormTek
Dedicated Transport - Night Scythe

Troops - 5 Warriors
RC - StormTek
RC - StormTek
Dedicated Transport - Night Scythe

Troops - 5 Warriors
RC - StormTek
RC - StormTek
Dedicated Transport - Night Scythe

Troops - 5 Warriors
RC - StormTek
RC - StormTek
Dedicated Transport - Night Scythe

Troops - 5 Warriors
Dedicated Transport - Ghost Ark

Troops - 5 Warriors
Dedicated Transport - Ghost Ark

Heavy Support - Annihilation Barge w/ Tesla Cannon
Heavy Support - Annihilation Barge w/ Tesla Cannon
Heavy Support - Annihilation Barge w/ Tesla Cannon

Looks really good.

Ok Ninja, I changed the guardians to base DA squads and added mantle to the farseer, by doing so I had an awkward 95 points left over without a clear way to use it, short of adding in a few DA here and there which seemed marginal at best, or I could give the knights some of their upgrade configurations, but my understanding is that knight are most efficient when left base. So, I thought of dropping the mantle off the farseer again, now having 135 pts to play with, and added another scoring unit of 7 jetbikes with 2 shuriken cannon for the farseer to join, does that seem reasonable?


HQ - Farseer w/ Jetbike, Singing Spear
Troops - 7x Windrider Jetbikes w/ 2x Shuriken Cannon

Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatterlaser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields

Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatterlaser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields

Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatterlaser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields

Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatterlaser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields

Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatterlaser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields

Heavy Support - Wraithknight

Heavy Support - Wraithknight

Heavy Support - Wraithknight

I don't know Eldar enough to weigh in on that, but the Cron list looks lean and mean now. I'd take that to a GT without batting an eye.

Thanks, just wondering if the Eldar will work that way, I first started 40k with Eldar in like 3rd edition, 1995 ish? Anyway, they have sentimental value lol.

95 points is just enough for 5 Spiders. Also, 3 WKs aren't necessary, though they're extremely tough to handle for some armies, they're a liability against some others.

I would keep the mantle, and then either take warp spiders like Araenion said, or take a jet bike squad with remaining points for last turn objective grabbing.

Either way that list could also be taken to a GT.

So final list: does look much better.


HQ - Farseer w/ Jetbike, Singing Spear, Mantle of the Laughing God

Troops - 5x Windrider Jetbikes w/ Shuriken Cannon

Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields

Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields

Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields

Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields

Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields

Heavy Support - Wraithknight

Heavy Support - Wraithknight

Heavy Support - Wraithknight

It's definitely one of the toughest armies out there. If you wanted to min-max it further, I'd drop the jetbikes and 1 WK. And replace them with 2 squads of Warp Spiders, 8 person strong each. Then for the last 30 points, I'd give Spirit Stone and Runes of Witnessing to your Farseer.

I'd do this because:

a) Two WKs are amazing. They support each other perfectly. 3 WKs puts too much points into the same basket. Wraithknights are generally taken for their board control and there's only so much board you can control. In addition, with just two types of units on board, you're opening yourself to more hard-counters out there. Those 2 squads of Spiders offer you a helluva lot more damage, more target saturation, superior mobility to go after hard-to-hit units, have alpha strike potential and are perfect for hoarding units toward your WKs.

b) Spirit Stone because that means Fortune/Prescience/Invisibility (and other powers, but usually you'll want these 3) is downgraded to WC 1, which makes them singificantly easier to cast,.especially when you have Runes of Witnessing giving you a re-roll and potentially saving you from perils.

What he said.

Thanks, I really love the warp spider suggestion, they are one of my favorite eldar unites by far, and did really want to field them.

Final Eldar List:


HQ - Farseer w/ Jetbike, Singing Spear, MOTLG, Runes of W, Sprirt Stone

Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields

Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields

Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields

Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields

Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields

Fast Attack - 8x Warp Spiders

Fast Attack - 8x Warp Spiders

Heavy Support - Wraithknight w/ 2x Heavy Wraithcannon

Heavy Support - Wraithknight w/ 2x Heavy Wraithcannon

Well, you could go out with both armies although I'd be careful with the Spiders as they could be nuked by Wyvern, TFC, and whatnot.

I agree Spiders can be gunned down, but I don't know if I'd call them fragile. I mean whats our criteria in the 40k universe, realistically, if warp spiders are fragile, what isn't? Terminators? Spiders are 3+ save, moving 2D6+6 inches, and packing an incredibly powerful punch - I don't think you can ask much more of a non-transported unit.

Sorry, just realized you didn't actually call them fragile, though I think the point of how good they are is still worth making lol.

peteralmo wrote:

Spoiler:

HQ - Overlord w/ Warscythe, Mindshackle Scarabs, Semp Weave, Phase Shifter
Catacomb Command Barge

HQ - Overlord w/ Warscythe, Mindshackle Scarabs, Semp Weave, Phase Shifter
Catacomb Command Barge

Troops - 5 Warriors
RC - StormTek
RC - StormTek
Dedicated Transport - Night Scythe

Troops - 5 Warriors
RC - StormTek
RC - StormTek
Dedicated Transport - Night Scythe

Troops - 5 Warriors
RC - StormTek
RC - StormTek
Dedicated Transport - Night Scythe

Troops - 5 Warriors
RC - StormTek
RC - StormTek
Dedicated Transport - Night Scythe

Troops - 5 Warriors
Dedicated Transport - Ghost Ark

Troops - 5 Warriors
Dedicated Transport - Ghost Ark

Heavy Support - Annihilation Barge w/ Tesla Cannon
Heavy Support - Annihilation Barge w/ Tesla Cannon
Heavy Support - Annihilation Barge w/ Tesla Cannon

Yikes
Yeah, that's quite the competitive 'Cron list.
I would have been tempted to keep at least one Death-Scythe in, as sometimes it really helps to have a super anti infantry unit (and three Storm-Scythes should be plenty good), but yeah, meta.

Both of those lists are super competitive, super mobile and super durable. In a dogfight, they're about equal, depending on how well those Knights can pen those Anni barges.

Thanks for the positive feedback, and thanks to the community for the great improvements.