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Made in au
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm





Not sure where to post this really but hopefully here works.

I recently picked up my first set of Cataphractii termis (absolutely love the models) and am curious as to what the best weapon layout for them would be. I have the special weapons set if that helps - comprised of lightning claws, combi-bolters (which I'm guessing will need to proxy for storm bolters), a power sword or two, a chain fist, a power maul, a twin linked autocannon and a heavy flamer (I think).

Of those, which have the best synergy together? Am I also correct in assuming that they can not run the Autocannon and H Flamer in the same 5 man squad (and what if it was increased to a 10 man squad?)


Also, I have had a difficult time planning on how to paint them; I had originally planned for them to be part of my small number of Thousand Sons but a part of me doesn't feel like they fit their aesthetic well enough without some converting using parts I don't have. As a result, I have been trying to decide between the other founding legions and CSM warbands but nothing has really stuck with me.

Recently though I discovered the Carcharodons and loved them - sexy grey (and simple to paint) armour AND they use a lot of ancient armour patterns. How likely would it be that they have access to the original Cataphractii armour? Would it seem too out of place to you?

As you have probably already deduced, I am much more of a modeler and painter who enjoys fluffy armies than a competitive one, though I would still like to make sure I make a good choice with weapons etc before gluing anything.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/25 11:36:17


 
   
Made in us
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot





Because the reboot fluff for the chapter was written before the current resin Cataphractii models were sculpted, there isn't going to be any text or images you can quote that would support any arguments. The Minotaurs suffered a similar problem, in that they were pictured using exclusively GW plastic terminators in IA10 but replaced all their terminator armor with Tartaros in IA12.

But to answer your question, the Carcharodons are one of the chapters MOST likely to have Cataphractii, based on the following observations:

- They were sent away very early in the history of the HH era, meaning they would be one of the few chapters to have a large collection of ancient relics, especially since they are essentially a splinter of the original RG legion so you can consider their war materiel to be equivalent to pre-Massare RG or any other founding legion (see: the Nicor).

- They specialize in terminator armor and IA10 explicitly states they are known and observed to field an abnormal amount of terminator suits.

- There is fluff that says chapters are "lucky" to have "two or three" surviving suits of Cataphractii. Because the Carcharodons are extremely isolated to the extent of being seemingly removed from time, combined with the fact that they have many terminator suits and have an officer who specializes in terminator combat and terminator retinues, it's extremely likely for the Carcharodons to be lucky enough to have 5 suits of Cataphractii.

You could argue that being fleet-based and operating in such remote space would be a DETRIMENT to maintaining relics, but the chapter also jealously guards its armory personnel, has self-sufficient forge capabilities, and are known to be looters and scavengers, meaning it's not out of the realm of possibility for them to be keeping older tech.

Hail the Emperor. 
   
Made in au
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm





Thank you for the response! Was getting worried no one could help haha.

Sure sounds plausible to me. I didn't even realise that the Carcharodons specialised in terminator based combat (as such), that makes it even more fitting. Plus, how can you not love terminators?

Also, any other interesting/more difficult to find info on the chapter would be great. And I still need some help with weapons loadouts for the squad!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/23 02:58:38


 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol





Desperado Corp.

Just a little general tip, try being a bit more specific in the thread title. "Need some advice" is a bit vague; "Need some advice with Terminator loadouts" or something along those lines is miles better

I don't know if Cataphracti terminators work differently to normal Terminators or not, or if that's the case in 30K, but I've always kitted my terminators out following these guidelines:

1) What does the rest of my army do?
2) What do I need from them?
3) Which weapons/ upgrades accomplish this best?
4) Can this role be covered better elsewhere?
5) Gear as needed.

Of course, magnetising them would be the best option. Then you never need to decide, per say, just swap them around as needed. Assuming you don't have or don't want to magnetise (like me), then we'll have to do this another way.

Ok, first, what's the rest of your army like? Terminators generally have a nice selection of wargear and are fairly flexible. You can use them to fill whatever gaps are in your army. (Before people get into competitiveness, we're talking about Terminators and 1K sons, alright? Not exactly Triptide, and it doesn't need to be.)

Generally, Terminators come in either shooty or assault flavours. Take TH/SS combos for a strong bully unit, while SB/PFs with a CML brings ranged pain. Playing Chaos is a slightly different matter, though it follows roughly the same guidelines.

For Chaos, you have the option of mixing close combat and ranged weapons. However, I'd be cautious with this. mainly because the Chaos weapons... just suck, frankly. I'd leave the Reaper AC at home, if you like it the Heavy flamer might be worth it. However, they're comparatively cheap and come with a power weapon base. These are good for really bullying MEQs and so on, but throwing a lot of weapons upgrades onto Chaos Terminators gets expensive quickly, and isn't really worth it IMO. They also don't have access to SS, so there's that.

Terminators are naturally durable. They can be particularly hurty, or throw out some support fire. Just remember they're not a one (five) man army, and won't be able to hold up unsupported.

Pretre: OOOOHHHHH snap. That's like driving away from hitting a pedestrian.
Pacific:First person to Photoshop a GW store into the streets of Kabul wins the thread.
Selym: "Be true to thyself, play Chaos" - Jesus, Daemon Prince of Cegorach.
H.B.M.C: You can't lobotomise someone twice. 
   
Made in au
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm





Thanks for the advice, you're right. I'll change it up.

Ok so basically I have no specific army plans (in regards to a tactical theme) but I do love terminators and am leaning towards the Carcharodons. The Cataphractii set that I have has the special weapons set - comprised of lightning claws, combi-bolters (which I'm guessing will need to proxy for storm bolters), a power sword or two, a chain fist, a power maul, a twin linked autocannon and a heavy flamer (I think).

Of those, which have the best synergy together? Am I also correct in assuming that they can not run the Autocannon and H Flamer in the same 5 man squad (and what if it was increased to a 10 man squad?)

(added to main post)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/25 11:35:31


 
   
Made in gb
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Glasgow, Scotland

First off I don't think loyalist Terminators of any variety can use a Reaper Autocannon, though you could count it as an Assault Cannon. IIRC the CSM codex states the Reaper is no longer used having been replaced with the Assault Cannon.

But otherwise you are indeed right. Can't have both.

If you have 5 sets of Claws, you are more into themes and fluff than competitiveness, and FW is allowed then look towards the Carcharadons' character Tyberos the Red Wake. Among a host of CC prowess, he allows a single Terminator Squad as troops as long as every model in the unit is dual Lightning Claws.
Of course, TH/SS is a much preferable loadout.


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Made in au
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm





Yeah I would love to run the Cataphractii squad with TH/SS but there was no set for them as I'm sure you know. Converted ones could look great but I don't have the spare cash to risk ruining these very expensive alternative termis lol.
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator





Seattle Area

As a fellow Carcharadons player I can say that they would fit in nicely. All be it I ended up going with the legion sculpting of the tartaros pattern for mine instead. And as far as loadout goes... if you don't have your unit of red bretheran yet I would start there!

Carcharodon Astra, by the Emporer it is willed.  
   
Made in gb
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit





 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
The Minotaurs suffered a similar problem, in that they were pictured using exclusively GW plastic terminators in IA10 but replaced all their terminator armor with Tartaros in IA12.
.


A lot of people on this forum like to keep saying this but just isn't true, what IA12 actually says is that Tartaros is ONE of the rarer patterns that the chapter has 'widespread access to', it certainly doesn't say they are the sole pattern used ('rarer patterns such as Tartaros and Arkonak'), nor in fact does it say they don't still make use of the more common patterns. /rant

 
   
Made in us
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot





You're right, there is no fluff explicitly stating the Minotaurs use Tartaros exclusively, because that would be silly.

My wording was poor and I can't presume to speak for others, but I think what you will find "most people" are talking about is the terminators PICTURED in Imperial Armour were replaced, as I previously stated, but did not properly word into the latter part of the sentence. Literally every single terminator shown is in Tartaros. You would think they could feature at least one Indomitus pattern terminator in IA12, but they do not. And they are not averse to recycling, as the Carcharodons Rhino featured in IA2:2E is the same one from IA10.

And if you want further proof of the "FW didn't make this model yet, that's why it doesn't appear in the artwork", see the Mk II, III, and IV armor from IA10. They have Mk VII backpacks in the diagram schematics because FW had not gotten around to releasing HH backpacks or drawings.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/26 07:51:51


Hail the Emperor. 
   
 
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