GW Bribing retailers?

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**doc1234**

Ok, so the titles a little strongly worded, but I was talking to the manager of an FLGS about general stock in the store (of different things besides 40k I mean) and he mentioned about upcoming shelf space. When asked, he mentioned the GW rep (or whatever) was trying to get him to buy up about £500 worth of shelf stock, and was trying to sweeten the deal by giving him a stormraven and two of stormpigeons for free to put up as window advertisements. Gets even weirder when you consider he has a good £400 or so worth of stock on shelf as is that he can't shift, as well as a shop literally opposite selling them, a fairly large GW store down the road plus hobbycraft selling it nearby. So I can't see GW sales hurting in the area for them to have to try to give free kits away just to get the stuff onto shelves....

**weeble1000**

Shelf space is a big deal in brick and mortar retail. GW has been losing ground in droves over the past several years.

**leopard**

GW would I guess prefer to have a retailer with shelves full of GW stock that doesn't sell than stock for another game that does.

Especially if the retailer is paying for that stock, once GW have sold it they probably care a lot less if the retailer is able to shift it. Bonus if its taking up space and working capital preventing sales of anything else.

Freebees are not that uncommon for other games though, especially for shelf displays etc

**Azreal13**

Retailer incentives like this are incredibly commonplace, if one has a trade account with a wholesaler, one can expect daily emails with promotions on stock purchases.

Heck, when I was running my business, one supplier offered points on purchases much like Tesco Clubcard points, redeemable for all sorts, up to a long distance holiday (Seychelles or Maldives IIRC)

While it might indicate GW realising that they've pushed things too far with Indys and starting to try and rebuild bridges, in all likelihood there's nothing to see here.

**Davor**

I don't think it's "bribing", but more like sweetening the deal as someone said before.

I don't know, this seems weird. I mean when does give anything away for free? Are they really hurting that bad? Funny instead of giving the stores free stuff why not give it to the customers?

Oh yeah I remember, GW doesn't care about us the customers.

**Azreal13**

No, but they do care about money, and persuading trade accounts to buy more stock is just as valid a strategy as persuading customers to do so.

**jah-joshua**

it has been a common thing over the years for GW to include free stuff for painting and display...
it has varied over the years, with the black box (a copy of the month's new releases) coming to an end about three years ago, iirc...
it sounds like a return to the old policy of free stuff for stores...

it is not a bribe, it is just good sense to have products built, painted, and on display...

cheers
jah

**Sean_OBrien**

Not bribing, sort of standard fair for outside sales reps to do that sort of thing.

In terms of the reasoning when the area is already saturated...it goes to limit what else people see. If the shelf has GW stuff, and the windows have GW stuff - then it is unlikely that they will have room enough to get other stuff.

GW doesn't care if they actually sell the stuff that is bought, they just want to make sure that you aren't selling anything else instead.

**Davor**

Azreal13 wrote:
No, but they do care about money, and persuading trade accounts to buy more stock is just as valid a strategy as persuading customers to do so.

While there might be short term gain for GW if the Stores are buying, if the customers are not buying, why would the Stores buy then ? I am shocked to see a store I went to, that after what, a month, there is still at least 6 boxes of the Space Wolf and Ork box set. Looks like at least in that area, nobody is buying, so why would that store want to buy more? So long term, I can see stores not wanting to buy especially if as the OP said he already has 400 Pounds of stock already. Why would he want another 500 Pounds worth?

The way I see it now, he will have 900 Pounds of product he can't sell just to get 2 or 3 free product? So I believe you have to "sweeten the pot" for the customers as well as the Stores. Right now the customers have a BITTER taste in our mouths. Shouldn't we also be getting some sweets as well?

Also I find it funny now, before GW is giving the FLGS the big finger with all the nonsense they have to sign just in order to buy GW product and now GW wants them to buy more after telling then How to buy it?

**Theophony**

Wonder if the rep had purchased that set (raven and 2 guppies) at his cost last year and to get sales he is offering something from his own goods to get the sale and commission.

As for freebies as a former Home Depot manager, whenever we opened new stores many of the vendors "Gave" us the first order of merchandise free. The entire lightbulb aisle for example. To them it's a minor cost, and it ensures good will with the buyer and gets repeat business. This is going back 7-8 years, but pretty sure it's all the same now.

**Sean_OBrien**

To be clear...they still are giving the FLGS the big finger.

There are 410 (out of 901) web exclusive 40K "items" (yes, some are bundles) and 292 (out of 580) WFB web exclusives. When that much of your catalog is out of the reach of your retailers...it is a pretty big finger.

**Overread**

Honestly I'm of two minds with the whole internet only orders thing.

On the one hand GW is forcing you to buy direct from them.

On the other hand however I think its more likely a strategy to reduce their shop impact and stock cost requirements without reboxing or redesigning their range.

Spartan Games recently pulled most blister sales and shifted to boxed sets for most of their games, the idea being that now a retailer has less individual item to stock for their games; plus their line-up is a lot simpler to understand and order (for shop and customer). At the same time they allow special orders to let players pick up individual models as they want them.
The result is that they still have a shop presence, a bigger one with visual boxes now instead of blisters and also a simpler retail line-up.

GW I think is trying to do the same thing; they are reducing the cost to the retailer to stock a full game (eg 40K or Fantasy) whilst at the same time also making the line-up simpler and focused around core units sold in bigger boxes (with the colourful front cover).
The result is a retailer is more likely to pick them up because they can carry a significant margin of the allowed stock without too much investment; plus what they are selling are in big boxes with colourful prints on the front so its fighting the advertising war - Blisters are generally not as good with that.

I suspect that this is part of GW's idea; I don't think they can easily rebox the entire range of their games, the model selection is too wide, too modular and too expensive for what you need to do that. So instead they cut down on what shops can/need to order.

**Lockark**

leopard wrote:
GW would I guess prefer to have a retailer with shelves full of GW stock that doesn't sell than stock for another game that does.

Especially if the retailer is paying for that stock, once GW have sold it they probably care a lot less if the retailer is able to shift it. Bonus if its taking up space and working capital preventing sales of anything else.

Freebees are not that uncommon for other games though, especially for shelf displays etc

When a retailer buys the stock from GW, then GW gets the money. It dosen't matter if the retailer sells the stock or not because GW already got their share of the pie.

**Overread**

Also a point - for GW it DOES matter if a retailer is selling their s stock. Because if the retailer doesn't sell their stock that retailer won't come back to buy again. And if that doesn't happen GW is only getting a trickle of small change from a very niche market of retailers on the highstreet.

What GW wants is retailers who are selling their product - in fact considering their shifts in policies toward independents its clear that when GW detects them doing well they try to move into that area with their own highstreet stores to tap into that local market popularity. This of course puts them at odds with the independents as well and its a unique case the other miniature producers don't have.

£500 of shelf stock is, what, a full single army - so 1 good customer for GW. That's very small on the large scale of things. If that's all they get per retailer and then nothing more from them its not a good sign.

**Howard A Treesong**

That's not 'bribery' which is a pretty serious word to use. They're just throwing in some extras to the store owner. They've given a few free kits for them to paint and put in the window. Standard practice I would have thought. It's only bribery if you induce someone inappropriately for favourable treatment. Say if GW were giving gifts to employees to get them to order more stuff on their employers behalf. There's nothing dishonest about giving stuff to the person owning the shop to use for advertising.

**Lockark**

Overread wrote:
Also a point - for GW it DOES matter if a retailer is selling their s stock. Because if the retailer doesn't sell their stock that retailer won't come back to buy again. And if that doesn't happen GW is only getting a trickle of small change from a very niche market of retailers on the highstreet.

What GW wants is retailers who are selling their product - in fact considering their shifts in policies toward independents its clear that when GW detects them doing well they try to move into that area with their own highstreet stores to tap into that local market popularity. This of course puts them at odds with the independents as well and its a unique case the other miniature producers don't have.

£500 of shelf stock is, what, a full single army - so 1 good customer for GW. That's very small on the large scale of things. If that's all they get per retailer and then nothing more from them its not a good sign.

Last I remember reading how much stock £500 is, counts on what "level" your store is. The more stock you carry and the larger your gaming area, the better prices GW gives you.

For small stores that is also alot of money to tie up into product that might not be moving as fast, especially if their is already GW stores in the area. When you type in "warhammer [insert citiy here]" you will always find the GW stores at the top of the listings. You also have to remember who many items GW has moved over to direct only. For some armies you can only get ahold of many of their HQ and elite units threw direct only. Sure a indy store can special order it. But the direct only items don't have as good profit margins as the normal GW items, and GW stores get their specail orders faster then indy shops.

In alot of ways when a GW store moves in they kinda pull the rug out from under their retailers.

That' stuff can realy take a toll on their bottom lines if they invested to heavily into GW products. So I don't realy blame the store owner for rather keeping a lower stock of warhammer and carrying other games with higher sales numbers.

**doc1234**

Honestly I used the word bribery for lack of an alternative at the time I posted. Did say the title was a little strong

Mostly it just clicked as weird to me considering GW's recent shifts against FLGS stores, and them doing ANYTHING for free. Yeah the set of freebies is likely what, £100? But when the City centre is pretty damn saturated already, I just wondered if this was becoming common practice for them or not. With all the normal "GEEDUBS IS DOING THIS AND THAT" threads, hadn't heard anything of them including incentive displays like that. Hell, can't remember the last time I even saw a cutout since early 2000.

Also, just to clarify the store owner isn't a total indie, its a small UK Branch called Antics, and the GW stuff in there is kept segregated to being stacked on one shelf so it's not in the way. They get more action from the PSC sales.

**Kelly502**

GW gives independents free stuff all the time, my local got an entire Citadel Realm of Battle Game board free. Loads of folk complain about GW too much.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
We got it painted up nicely and we are using it now. Nice of them to do that!

**Davor**

Kelly502 wrote:
GW gives independents free stuff all the time, my local got an entire Citadel Realm of Battle Game board free. Loads of folk complain about GW too much.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
We got it painted up nicely and we are using it now. Nice of them to do that!

Uh what? Nice for GW to treat their customers like crap? You know what? I feel like GW slighted me. So I couldn't care what GW does to their stores. They are not going to get any brownie points from me, when I feel like I am not wanted.

**Kelly502**

Davor wrote:
Kelly502 wrote:
GW gives independents free stuff all the time, my local got an entire Citadel Realm of Battle Game board free. Loads of folk complain about GW too much.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
We got it painted up nicely and we are using it now. Nice of them to do that!

Uh what? Nice for GW to treat their customers like crap? You know what? I feel like GW slighted me. So I couldn't care what GW does to their stores. They are not going to get any brownie points from me, when I feel like I am not wanted.

Let me state that again... Games Workshop gave a Citadel Realm of Battle Game Board to my local independent retailer (local shop just selling GW products not a GW store) for free. That was very nice of them to do that.

**jah-joshua**

yes, it was...
glad some people can enjoy toy soldiers without a chip on their shoulder

...

now, if "GW" ever comes to my house, and kicks my puppy, it is on!!!

cheers
jah

**Azreal13**

No, it wasn't "nice" of them to do it, any more than its "excellent customer service" when they merely exchange a faulty product, these are just normal things that happen everyday between thousands of businesses and their customers, whether it be the public or other businesses, all over the world,

Seriously, this has gone on since the first caveman fletcher gave the best hunter in the village some of his arrows to try, getting your product on display and allowing your customers to see it "in the wild" is a proven sales technique. Giving the people responsible for generating sales incentives for doing so is too.

There really isn't a discussion to be had here, it is just a thing that happens.

**ATAHobbies**

FLGS Here,
In all Honesty, GW is without a doubt the best manufacturer/distributor that we have. They are incredibly prompt when we call (which isn't as common as you would think) and actually work with us to stock what is best for us. I had to actually talk THEM into selling me items that they weren't sure were right for us, and they sent us hundreds of dollars in fixtures and scenery for free. Direct Only items aren't really direct only, they just take a bit longer to arrive (for us it's 2 extra days) and while we don't receive the same discount as we do most trade items, their direct order costs are much cheaper than most other companies. Manufacturers often offer freebies to retailers as a way to promote themselves in a store. I appreciate it because I don't have to pay companies to showcase their items, and that in turn leads to more exposure for them.

Think about it this way
Company A sends you posters, a demo table, minis and terrain to showcase the game to new hobbyists, as well as guides to selling product and flyers for customers
Company B has all of these items available, but require you to pay for them (the demo table for another popular game costs us $175)
Company C doesn't have any promotional material available other than what's on their website, and you have to make everything yourself

Which one is the obvious choice to showcase in your store?

**Azreal13**

All I can say is you're obviously as not far down the path as this guy..

mikhaila wrote:
Saying what I really think would unleash a torrent of angry screams that would bring a tear to the eye of Khorne.

A toned down version.....

I think GW used to be one of the most awesome companies to work with, sold amazing models worth the money, and supported retailers more than any other company.

I'm sort of disgruntled because:
-Of the couple of hundred people I knew at GW, only a couple remain.
-Games Day is...lets say "lacking", and be polite. I used to take down 20ft displays with 1500 models and run events. Those days are gone.
-GW does not run any events besides "games day".
-I carry all GW items i can stock. That wall has shrunk by 25 feet in the last few years, as they offer less and less items, and move blisters, finecast, and even plastic model kits to mail order.
-So many kits are missing from my walls, that i can't sell someone an Army. I can only get Brettonian knights. Dwarfs are limited to miners, cannon, and warriors. Other missing kits include High Elf archers, minotaurs, and dire wolves. All blisters have pretty much gone away, so forget about special characters, and generals. Hard to sell a customer on a game when i don't have all the pieces he wants to play with.
-I come to Dakka for GW news. They don't tell me about new releases until the week before. No preview copies, no hints, no way to get pre-orders or excite the customers.
-I cannot use the marketing tools and techniques I learned from GW, because of GW's current disinformation policies.
-Prices are accelerating so fast that it is getting harder and harder to sell their games and models.
-Rules are published online. I don't even know what some of the 40k rules are, since I don't have those rulebooks.
-Specialist Games have been squatted.

I love GW games. I own dozens of armies and thousands of models. I'm disappointed that the company has fallen so far.

And mostly I'm angry because I don't know why. Nothing makes sense from a business standpoint. They are driving their business lower and lower. I can't believe that the people making the decisions care about GW as a company existing in the future.

I am old and bitter and one day I will find those responsible for ruining the company I loved and put a Choppa between their eyes.

Who has often, and eloquently lamented how GW has been going down the tubes in terms of how it has dealt with 3rd party retail for some time, an opinion borne out by falling revenue in the channel in their financial reports.

Beware putting all your eggs in GW's basket.

**Byte**

I've worked the golf retail industry. If you think incentives don't exist your on crack.

**Kelly502**

jah-joshua wrote:
yes, it was...
glad some people can enjoy toy soldiers without a chip on their shoulder...

now, if "GW" ever comes to my house, and kicks my puppy, it is on!!!

cheers
jah

LMAO!! Great to have some humor! Everyone is so serious.

**Davor**

Kelly502 wrote:
Davor wrote:
Kelly502 wrote:
GW gives independents free stuff all the time, my local got an entire Citadel Realm of Battle Game board free. Loads of folk complain about GW too much.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
We got it painted up nicely and we are using it now. Nice of them to do that!

Uh what? Nice for GW to treat their customers like crap? You know what? I feel like GW slighted me. So I couldn't care what GW does to their stores. They are not going to get any brownie points from me, when I feel like I am not wanted.

Let me state that again... Games Workshop gave a Citadel Realm of Battle Game Board to my local independent retailer (local shop just selling GW products not a GW store) for free. That was very nice of them to do that.

Yes it was nice that they gave the board for free, some how I read it wrong. Sorry, really tired. Need to stop posting when I am this tired and not feeling good.

We

ATAHobbies wrote:
FLGS Here,
In all Honesty, GW is without a doubt the best manufacturer/distributor that we have. They are incredibly prompt when we call (which isn't as common as you would think) and actually work with us to stock what is best for us. I had to actually talk THEM into selling me items that they weren't sure were right for us, and they sent us hundreds of dollars in fixtures and scenery for free. Direct Only items aren't really direct only, they just take a bit longer to arrive (for us it's 2 extra days) and while we don't receive the same discount as we do most trade items, their direct order costs are much cheaper than most other companies. Manufacturers often offer freebies to retailers as a way to promote themselves in a store. I appreciate it because I don't have to pay companies to showcase their items, and that in turn leads to more exposure for them.

Think about it this way
Company A sends you posters, a demo table, minis and terrain to showcase the game to new hobbyists, as well as guides to selling product and flyers for customers
Company B has all of these items available, but require you to pay for them (the demo table for another popular game costs us $175)
Company C doesn't have any promotional material available other than what's on their website, and you have to make everything yourself

Which one is the obvious choice to showcase in your store?

Shh..you're killing the story of GW being the evil empire. Everything GW does must be evil, wrong and a sign of their impending demise for the folks on here.

**weeble1000**

We wrote:
ATAHobbies wrote:
FLGS Here,
In all Honesty, GW is without a doubt the best manufacturer/distributor that we have. They are incredibly prompt when we call (which isn't as common as you would think) and actually work with us to stock what is best for us. I had to actually talk THEM into selling me items that they weren't sure were right for us, and they sent us hundreds of dollars in fixtures and scenery for free. Direct Only items aren't really direct only, they just take a bit longer to arrive (for us it's 2 extra days) and while we don't receive the same discount as we do most trade items, their direct order costs are much cheaper than most other companies. Manufacturers often offer freebies to retailers as a way to promote themselves in a store. I appreciate it because I don't have to pay companies to showcase their items, and that in turn leads to more exposure for them.

Think about it this way
Company A sends you posters, a demo table, minis and terrain to showcase the game to new hobbyists, as well as guides to selling product and flyers for customers
Company B has all of these items available, but require you to pay for them (the demo table for another popular game costs us $175)
Company C doesn't have any promotional material available other than what's on their website, and you have to make everything yourself

Which one is the obvious choice to showcase in your store?

Shh..you're killing the story of GW being the evil empire. Everything GW does must be evil, wrong and a sign of their impending demise for the folks on here.

If some Indy retailers are happy as clams with GW, that's great. In my personal experience, retailers that are happy with GW are like unicorns. The vast majority of what I have heard from indy retailers is that they rather dislike working with GW. More than a few I have talked to have said that they wish they didn't need to stock GW products at all.

**Quarterdime**

eeeh, I don't really consider it a bribe. I mean I suppose technically it is, but it just doesn't have the spirit of a bribe. Unless you consider an appliance commercial bribing you by throwing in "A second set absolutely free!"