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I gave the new assassins dataslate a spin today, tried a vindicare and then an eversor.

Eversor is, of course, a beast. He totalled a mauler fiend on turn one before charging a chaos sorcerer and demon spawn. He did some damage, but it was his bio-meltdown that actually killed the warlord, not sure if that counts towards the +1 VP for having an assassin kill a warlord.

Vindicare, I mistakenly infiltrated him too close to the enemy, I was looking for a good LOS position, but he got assaulted and disposed of. My mistake, he's clearly a solid model, able to put S10 AP2 shots on vehicles at BS8.

Culexus looks pretty awesome, if only because he's impossible to hit. Targeting him imposes BS/WS 1.

I'm not sure what you're supposed to use the Callidus for. She seems more like a generalist, TAC addition. The eversor has a better poison weapon and a longer charge range, for fewer points. Phase sword only ignores invulnerable saves on a 6 to wound. The neural shredder could be pretty good, but without the defense of the Culexus or the charge range of an Eversor, it seems like she's often going to get shot to pieces.

I think they went a little overboard giving humans WS/BS at 8, initiative at 7. I get that they're supposed to be insanely well selected and trained, but they're still human. A few less points for a more reasonable WS, BS, Init of 5 would have been fine. I'm concerned about the increasing rules inflation, each of the assassins has 10 or more special rules in addition to 3 special pieces of wargear. I like the models, but it's impossible to remember all of the rules.

 TheSilo wrote:
Eversor is, of course, a beast. He totalled a mauler fiend on turn one

...how did he manage to do that? He can't charge if he infiltrates, and he can't actually hurt it in close combat unless it was immobilized.

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:
Eversor is, of course, a beast. He totalled a mauler fiend on turn one

...how did he manage to do that? He can't charge if he infiltrates, and he can't actually hurt it in close combat unless it was immobilized.

The Eversor comes with a melta bomb

As for TheSilo's question, the use of the Callidus is as a way to put a lot of damage on a single high priority target, with Polymorphine allowing to appear wherever it would do the most damage and making shooting at her only Snap Fire. Reign of Confusion also give a way to manipulate the game outside of killing something. She's not the best in assault, but Hit and Run and Precision Strikes gives me the impression that her optimal strategy is shot the kill everything flamer, assault, kill something valuable, and jump out, and shoot with the flamer again

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:
Eversor is, of course, a beast. He totalled a mauler fiend on turn one

...how did he manage to do that? He can't charge if he infiltrates, and he can't actually hurt it in close combat unless it was immobilized.

Eversor has meltabombs so he can feasibly take down a maulerfiend.

Eversor infiltrated, the mauler fiend charged him at the bottom of turn 1. Melta bombs blew him up.

Good point on the callidus, totally forgot about her hit and run and the snap shots on turn 1.

The vindicare sucks.

I really, really want to like him, since, you know, awesome sniper, but he sucks.

While he does have the potential to cause tremendous dammage, him killing a character is heavily reliant on how many chickens you sacrificed the day prior.

Against armour he might look nice at first, but it's still about 150 points for a single s10 shot, on a platform that probably won't see turn 3. 3x about 33% to blow up a rhino, or chimera (very dumbed down math).



I could see him turning that 1 game in a 1000, were he will net you a sudden warlord kill, but don't count on him. The tragic thing is, that I don't see a good way to buff him without breaking him either...






The other Assassins are good fun though.

DrunkPhilisoph wrote:
The vindicare sucks.

I've found them to be by far the strongest of the assassins, especially if there is some terrain in a corner of the table where you can perch and get a good view of the battlefield. Seriously, he fills the same niche as something like a Devastator Squad, but has very reliable damage output - ignores cover, ignores armor, ignores invuls if you need to (sucks to be a Chapter Master on a bike with a storm shield). Infiltrate means that you can counter-deploy against your opponent (very useful, since you can deploy just out of range of his heavy guns), and with stealth you're getting 3+ cover saves in ruins, so he's basically just as durable as a Space Marine Captain with a Storm Shield. Yes, you're opponent will probably focus him down early, but honestly that's not a bad thing - it forces him to move up his heavy support choices to get into range of the Vindicare, and he usually will take a disproportionate amount of firepower before he goes down.

The other assassins have their place. The Eversor is pretty bad against stuff with 2+ armor, but he's a pretty good weed whacker. The Cullexus is pretty crazy - he sometimes die like a bitch before he gets to do anything, but he can be totally devastating when he comes in (and monstrous if he survives past turn 1 and manages to get into close combat). He's pretty good even against non-psyker armies. The Callidus... we've played a couple games with her, and have pretty mixed feelings. The reserve roll tweaking is very situational (at best, it keeps a flyer off the board for a turn). The flamer is very handy for frying a group of infantry on turn 1, but it's hard to do enough damage with her to justify the price (especially if you have the misfortune of going 2nd).

DrunkPhilisoph wrote:
The vindicare sucks.

I really, really want to like him, since, you know, awesome sniper, but he sucks.

While he does have the potential to cause tremendous dammage, him killing a character is heavily reliant on how many chickens you sacrificed the day prior.

Against armour he might look nice at first, but it's still about 150 points for a single s10 shot, on a platform that probably won't see turn 3. 3x about 33% to blow up a rhino, or chimera (very dumbed down math).

I could see him turning that 1 game in a 1000, were he will net you a sudden warlord kill, but don't count on him. The tragic thing is, that I don't see a good way to buff him without breaking him either...

The other Assassins are good fun though.

I need to try him a bit more, but I'm inclined to disagree. He's a reliable way to take an enemy vehicle out of action for a turn, if not permanently. He costs the same as a vanquisher but with way better BS. He's perfect for taking out heavy weapons troopers and characters, over a few turns he can essentially neuter several squads.

He's not going to obliterate entire squads like the other assassins, but he has the unique ability to shift his attention to exactly where you need it at any given time.

I really like the codex, and I've been thinking quite a bit about the different Assassins lately.

Vindicare: Fantastic in games where taking out specific models (especially those in deep cover) is important. Otherwise... well he mounts emplaced guns really well since his BS8/Ignore Cover/Precision Shots count toward weapons he's using as well as his own.

Callidus: I'm not sure how to use her. An AP2 4+ poison template is... good? It's really nice against some units like MEQs or TEQs in bigger groups, but against some armies it's dumb because wounding a Guard Blob on a 4+ seems pointless when any other gun can do it on a 3+ or better. Her Assault is alright, nothing special but good. AP2 Sword that can ignore Invuln saves is great but being S4 is not particularly good when a lot of the characters you want to assassinate come in T5 (or with some Special Characters, better).

It's like, her utility is good, her element of surprise (I can be anywhere on the board! Sup fools) is great, but her actual killing prowess feels pretty weak for her points cost. If you go first and the opponent does not have any Reserves, you're basically just paying a vehicle's price for her uber Infiltrate/Outflank and moderate shooting, which isn't necessarily bad, but I'm not sure how good it is either. I want to try her more, maybe it's better than I think.

Eversor: The Assault Bomb. 7 S5 AP3 Attacks on the charge with a possible 18" charge range and an Explosion when he dies. Cool! Wish we were playing an edition where Assault was good enough to warrant his price tag, since he has pretty much no defenses and his shooting pretty well sucks.

Culexus: Holy butts. HOLY BUTTS. The best assassin, hands down. His assault isn't as good as the Eversor but on par with Cally. His shooting is kinda short range but S5 AP2 is nothing to sneeze at, and since it's in the Psychic phase he can still Run. He has probably the best defense of the bunch by a long shot (technically Vindicare's 72" range is better, but that's semantics). His utility is probably the best in the game. Enemy rolled Invis? Prescience? Iron Arm? Guide? Fortune? Catalyst? Literally walk towards that unit and laugh at them. Remove Psykers from the Psychic Phase just by being nearby, no other unit can do that. Even if you play against an opponent with no Psykers, you still have 1-3 good shots and an AP2 ID weapon that forces you to suck at shooting/punching. And for some reason he's cheaper than Vindicare and Cally.

I've used a Culexus with my Necrons. It's pretty great because we don't use our Warp Charge, so he's always guaranteed as many shots as possible, and he gives some anti-Psyker presence when we really don't have any. Though, his issue is getting to his targets. Infiltrate and Outflank are nice, but I can't help but feeling it would be fantastic to put him in an Allied Dedicated Transport (like Drop Pods, which Wolves can just take empty now).

The Vindicare is very much geared towards removing linchpin models from squads, not for killing blinged out warlords or landraiders. He can VERY reliably take out special weapon carriers, sergeants, banners, apothecaries, and other special models that many units rely on to be effective. They may only be 30pt or whatever models, but often the loss of them will kneecap the entire 200+pt unit theyre in. If all youre doing with the vindicare is slinging shots at warlords with good invul saves and lots of wounds (as they usually have), then yeah. He totally can't one shot that model. Frankly, that would be lame as hell.

I guess that's fair. It just seems like a high cost for something relatively squishy that only puts out one (admittedly strong) shot per turn. Against some armies, the ability to take out an Apothecary or Character is terrifying. Against others, it doesn't really matter. For example, what does a Vindicare really focus on against Tyranids? He seems much less of a TOC choice than Cally or Culexus.

But, I haven't used him a lot yet, so I look forward to playing him more. Thematically he's cool, and picking off a Warlord or just an important character across the map is always fun.

Requizen wrote:
I guess that's fair. It just seems like a high cost for something relatively squishy that only puts out one (admittedly strong) shot per turn. Against some armies, the ability to take out an Apothecary or Character is terrifying. Against others, it doesn't really matter. For example, what does a Vindicare really focus on against Tyranids? He seems much less of a TOC choice than Cally or Culexus.

But, I haven't used him a lot yet, so I look forward to playing him more. Thematically he's cool, and picking off a Warlord or just an important character across the map is always fun.

Actually, he'd be great at picking off venomthropes and tyrant guard. Ap2 ignore cover with either d3 wounds or wound on 2+.

 TheSilo wrote:

Requizen wrote:
I guess that's fair. It just seems like a high cost for something relatively squishy that only puts out one (admittedly strong) shot per turn. Against some armies, the ability to take out an Apothecary or Character is terrifying. Against others, it doesn't really matter. For example, what does a Vindicare really focus on against Tyranids? He seems much less of a TOC choice than Cally or Culexus.

But, I haven't used him a lot yet, so I look forward to playing him more. Thematically he's cool, and picking off a Warlord or just an important character across the map is always fun.

Actually, he'd be great at picking off venomthropes and tyrant guard. Ap2 ignore cover with either d3 wounds or wound on 2+.

Ah, right. Our Tyranid player doesn't bring either, I had actually pretty much forgotten about them.

Not sure if I'm bringing him or Cally tonight, maybe I'll veer towards the Deadshot to gain more experience with him.

Requizen wrote:
Snip

Vindi: i needa get out of the mindset that he is a anti tank. though i did immobalize a landraider which was cool :(
Callidus: i keep forgetting about her hit and run. but i find her best as an alpha strike or a hide in the back with outflank to cheese out a line breaker if there are no good targets
Eversor: i disagree about the shooting. 4 2+ poison shots are awesome against bullgak high T models and does generally well in CC with fleshbane attachs against high Ts as well.
Culexus: holy butts is nice against those annoying blessing armies.

 TheSilo wrote:

I think they went a little overboard giving humans WS/BS at 8, initiative at 7. I get that they're supposed to be insanely well selected and trained, but they're still human. A few less points for a more reasonable WS, BS, Init of 5 would have been fine. I'm concerned about the increasing rules inflation, each of the assassins has 10 or more special rules in addition to 3 special pieces of wargear. I like the models, but it's impossible to remember all of the rules.

Just want to point out, that while they are "Human".

They are given the best cybernetics, they are given tons of enhancement drugs, many of them were also gene tampered and given various drugs as they grew, many of them have technology that is only available to the Lords and Highest Inquisitors, and those at the upper echelon of the Mechanicus, many things also given to them are impossible to gain otherwise.

They pretty much are "Human" in name only.

 Desubot wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Snip

Vindi: i needa get out of the mindset that he is a anti tank. though i did immobalize a landraider which was cool :(
Callidus: i keep forgetting about her hit and run. but i find her best as an alpha strike or a hide in the back with outflank to cheese out a line breaker if there are no good targets
Eversor: i disagree about the shooting. 4 2+ poison shots are awesome against bullgak high T models and does generally well in CC with fleshbane attachs against high Ts as well.
Culexus: holy butts is nice against those annoying blessing armies.

Eh, I dunno. BS8 and 2+ Poisoned basically guarantees 3-4 Wounds, but anything that you'd want to shoot with high Toughness will likely also have a decent save and enough wounds to not care that much when all is said and done. I mean, obviously you're not bringing him for his shooting, you're bringing him for his ability to charge into a squad of almost anything and shred them into red gibs, so any shooting is really just a plus.

Their stat line just makes no sense. Yes, they are awesome. Seems like a stretch to put them above Chapter Masters though. They're basically the human equivalent to Eldar Exarchs.

What would people think of counts-as for these models? I'd love to put together some Outcast or Exodite (Eldar) heroes using these rules?

Bharring wrote:
Their stat line just makes no sense. Yes, they are awesome. Seems like a stretch to put them above Chapter Masters though. They're basically the human equivalent to Eldar Exarchs.

What would people think of counts-as for these models? I'd love to put together some Outcast or Exodite (Eldar) heroes using these rules?

I've pointed out why, they are given a technological edge to the point where many of them could barely count as human due to the upgrades they've been given, technology that is only available to the highest of the high in the Imperium.

Bharring wrote:
Their stat line just makes no sense. Yes, they are awesome. Seems like a stretch to put them above Chapter Masters though. They're basically the human equivalent to Eldar Exarchs.

What would people think of counts-as for these models? I'd love to put together some Outcast or Exodite (Eldar) heroes using these rules?

I've been using Flayed Ones for Callidus/Culexus/Eversor and a custom Cryptek with a long Lance type weapon (used for Destructeks) for Vindicare. They seem to fit pretty well thematically.

Requizen wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Snip

Vindi: i needa get out of the mindset that he is a anti tank. though i did immobalize a landraider which was cool :(
Callidus: i keep forgetting about her hit and run. but i find her best as an alpha strike or a hide in the back with outflank to cheese out a line breaker if there are no good targets
Eversor: i disagree about the shooting. 4 2+ poison shots are awesome against bullgak high T models and does generally well in CC with fleshbane attachs against high Ts as well.
Culexus: holy butts is nice against those annoying blessing armies.

Eh, I dunno. BS8 and 2+ Poisoned basically guarantees 3-4 Wounds, but anything that you'd want to shoot with high Toughness will likely also have a decent save and enough wounds to not care that much when all is said and done. I mean, obviously you're not bringing him for his shooting, you're bringing him for his ability to charge into a squad of almost anything and shred them into red gibs, so any shooting is really just a plus.

Well obviously you want him to go in and ravage something fun but discounting his shooting as just sucks is what i was disagreeing with and even with a good save, dumping wounds are one of the ways to actually deal with them.

How is their 'technological edge' so obscenely better than that of a Chapter Master, in regards to WS/BS? Much less, anywhere close to the tech for an Exarch?

Dataslate Assassins wrote:“Key to the uncanny might of the Assassin is the surgery he must undergo during his ten years of tutelage. Augmentative nodes are stitched into his brain, and sub-muscular acoustic surgery prepares his body for the punishment that will be visited upon him in the line of duty. The level of arcane technology necessary is perhaps the most advanced the Imperium can provide – for good reason, it is constrained to Holy Terra to minimise the chance of it being captured by the enemies of Humanity. It is well that such ancient techno-magicks are revered so, and maintained with such painstaking care. Without them, the polymorphic drugs and reality-shifting devices used by the more esoteric temples would literally tear their operatives apart.”
.

Also, toy soldiers.

Bharring wrote:
How is their 'technological edge' so obscenely better than that of a Chapter Master, in regards to WS/BS? Much less, anywhere close to the tech for an Exarch?

You mean basically being funded Directly by the Lords of Terra and Inquisitors for their use with technology that most Chapter Masters would never see with the closest one we've seen is the Chapter Master of the Minotaurs, but even he's still not born from a genetic template and enhanced with tons of technological and drug based prowess.

There's also the other assassins from the other temples, along with the standard assassins who aren't prepped as the main temples are, but we don't see them anymore on the tabletop.

The Eversor's poison gun is only 4+ if I'm not mistaken, otherwise you'd never use his bolt pistol. His cc gauntlet is 2+ with shred.

I think, don't have the book with me. It's worth shooting with him, four BS8 shots is no joke against infantry.

 TheSilo wrote:
The Eversor's poison gun is only 4+ if I'm not mistaken, otherwise you'd never use his bolt pistol. His cc gauntlet is 2+ with shred.

I think, don't have the book with me. It's worth shooting with him, four BS8 shots is no joke against infantry.

You are correct, I was mistaken. So yeah, doesn't inspire too much confidence in me.

Requizen wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:
The Eversor's poison gun is only 4+ if I'm not mistaken, otherwise you'd never use his bolt pistol. His cc gauntlet is 2+ with shred.

I think, don't have the book with me. It's worth shooting with him, four BS8 shots is no joke against infantry.

You are correct, I was mistaken. So yeah, doesn't inspire too much confidence in me.

Eh, I used it to gun down some demon/chaos spawn yesterday. His pistol isn't his best asset, but don't under estimate it against light infantry and high toughness models.

Requizen wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:
The Eversor's poison gun is only 4+ if I'm not mistaken, otherwise you'd never use his bolt pistol. His cc gauntlet is 2+ with shred.

I think, don't have the book with me. It's worth shooting with him, four BS8 shots is no joke against infantry.

You are correct, I was mistaken. So yeah, doesn't inspire too much confidence in me.

well il be.... so not as good but still ok in a clutch.

Bharring wrote:
How is their 'technological edge' so obscenely better than that of a Chapter Master, in regards to WS/BS? Much less, anywhere close to the tech for an Exarch?

Because Chapter Masters aren't gods. They're just Space Marines +1, +2 in the case of Space Wolves and Grey Knights. The Officio Assassinorum is extremely well-funded by the Imperial organizations that directly control the Space Marine Chapters (The High Lords of Terra and His Ordos of the Holy Inquisition). Knights-in-Space are all well and good... but the Art of the Low War is best handled by professionals. Professionals like genetically-built assassins who can change into other species (or even other Families), kitted out with cybernetics that would make a Dreadnought blush, enough bioaugmentation and genetic manipulation that makes the geneseed of the Space Marines look like My First Chemistry Set, trained *constantly* through both practical means and hypno-indoctrination and direct mental engrammatic implantation (even while they sleep/are kept in cryostasis until they are needed), armed with weapons designed to kill absolutely anything.

Space Marines get 15 minutes of free time a day. The best of the Imperium's assassins don't even get that. They are thawed out, sent on a mission, and returned to cryostasis when the job is done.

 Psienesis wrote:

Bharring wrote:
How is their 'technological edge' so obscenely better than that of a Chapter Master, in regards to WS/BS? Much less, anywhere close to the tech for an Exarch?

Because Chapter Masters aren't gods. They're just Space Marines +1, +2 in the case of Space Wolves and Grey Knights. The Officio Assassinorum is extremely well-funded by the Imperial organizations that directly control the Space Marine Chapters (The High Lords of Terra and His Ordos of the Holy Inquisition). Knights-in-Space are all well and good... but the Art of the Low War is best handled by professionals. Professionals like genetically-built assassins who can change into other species (or even other Families), kitted out with cybernetics that would make a Dreadnought blush, enough bioaugmentation and genetic manipulation that makes the geneseed of the Space Marines look like My First Chemistry Set, trained *constantly* through both practical means and hypno-indoctrination and direct mental engrammatic implantation (even while they sleep/are kept in cryostasis until they are needed), armed with weapons designed to kill absolutely anything.

Space Marines get 15 minutes of free time a day. The best of the Imperium's assassins don't even get that. They are thawed out, sent on a mission, and returned to cryostasis when the job is done.

Just a note, not all temples employ cyrostasis. The main ones that do are Eversor (Because of the chemical cocktail and neigh insanity) and Culexus (Who aren't kept in a temple and instead located in a vast variety of starships in stasis kept on high alert)

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

Bharring wrote:
How is their 'technological edge' so obscenely better than that of a Chapter Master, in regards to WS/BS? Much less, anywhere close to the tech for an Exarch?

Because Chapter Masters aren't gods. They're just Space Marines +1, +2 in the case of Space Wolves and Grey Knights. The Officio Assassinorum is extremely well-funded by the Imperial organizations that directly control the Space Marine Chapters (The High Lords of Terra and His Ordos of the Holy Inquisition). Knights-in-Space are all well and good... but the Art of the Low War is best handled by professionals. Professionals like genetically-built assassins who can change into other species (or even other Families), kitted out with cybernetics that would make a Dreadnought blush, enough bioaugmentation and genetic manipulation that makes the geneseed of the Space Marines look like My First Chemistry Set, trained *constantly* through both practical means and hypno-indoctrination and direct mental engrammatic implantation (even while they sleep/are kept in cryostasis until they are needed), armed with weapons designed to kill absolutely anything.

Space Marines get 15 minutes of free time a day. The best of the Imperium's assassins don't even get that. They are thawed out, sent on a mission, and returned to cryostasis when the job is done.

Just a note, not all temples employ cyrostasis. The main ones that do are Eversor (Because of the chemical cocktail and neigh insanity) and Culexus (Who aren't kept in a temple and instead located in a vast variety of starships in stasis kept on high alert)

Well to be fair the other two are probably in the field stalking or infiltrating there targets anyway