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If I take Toxin sacks on a Crone or other FMC do I only get the poison attacks or can I choose to not use them? With the increase in Superheavy monsters (tranny for example) I find I need a little more punch on toughness 9 but still want to be able to attack vehicles or use my normal strength. Also does the AP2 rule for MC follow the poison or does it become ap-?

Poison was may much better in 6th/7th edition. You wound on the value, unless a lower number is needed. So for example, if you are Strength 6 with Poison (4+), anything Toughness 6 or higher is wounded on a 4+, while T5 or lower is wounded on a 2+ or 3+. Poison does nothing against vehicles so you would still attack at Strength.

Smash applies to all Melee attacks unless specified otherwise (such as Tail biomorphs).

Poison was made better in 6th, and worse in 7th.

Fishboy, I think you are confused about how poison works... how do you think it would affect fighitng vehicles or other models?

And there is really no reason to ever put TS on a crone, and almost no reason to put them on a HT.

coredump wrote:

And there is really no reason to ever put TS on a crone, and almost no reason to put them on a HT.

Best answer.

I am list building with Nids and the only reason I would think of adding sacs to the Crone or harpy would be if they get knocked out of the sky then charged by a knight that I can barely wound or a Ctan tranny that I can not wound at tough 9. Poison would at least get a few wounds and if at my ap2 (monstrous creature) then I would at least not die in vain. I have a few points left in my list and want to use them in a way that can do something. Am I just totally missing something?

 Fishboy wrote:
I am list building with Nids and the only reason I would think of adding sacs to the Crone or harpy would be if they get knocked out of the sky then charged by a knight that I can barely wound or a Ctan tranny that I can not wound at tough 9. Poison would at least get a few wounds and if at my ap2 (monstrous creature) then I would at least not die in vain. I have a few points left in my list and want to use them in a way that can do something. Am I just totally missing something?

Dude, that is a pretty niche occurrence.... Think about this, he has to shoot at your crone, get some hits, get wounds, get past your armor save or jink/cover save, do some damage but not actually kill the FMC, and have it fail the 3+ grounding check and have a knight in charge range, and manage to hit it.

Just how often does this happen?

I would never waste points for something that is so unlikely to happen, and so unlikely to make much of a difference.

That said... Knights are a vehicle, so TS will have no effect. Spend the points on egrubs for the flyrant instead.

 Fishboy wrote:
a Ctan tranny

Amazing!

he probably meant Wraithknight, but if he did mean Imperial knight yes, Toxin sacs do nothing.


Basically, toxin sacs are only useful on low str nids and nids that dont focus on shooting.

A squad of 30 hormagaunts with toxin sacs will scare alot of things though.

coredump wrote:
Poison was made better in 6th, and worse in 7th.

Fishboy, I think you are confused about how poison works... how do you think it would affect fighitng vehicles or other models?

And there is really no reason to ever put TS on a crone, and almost no reason to put them on a HT.

I'm confused. How was Poison made worse?

In both 6th and 7th you Wound on a fixed value (as listed in parenthesis) unless a lower number is needed. In both editions, unless otherwise specified, Poisoned weapons are Strength 1. In both editions they do nothing against vehicles.

In other words on a S6 model, against T1-4 you Wound on 2+ with re-roll, against T5 you Wound on a 3+ with re-roll, against T6+ you wound on the set value.

 Happyjew wrote:

coredump wrote:
Poison was made better in 6th, and worse in 7th.

Fishboy, I think you are confused about how poison works... how do you think it would affect fighitng vehicles or other models?

And there is really no reason to ever put TS on a crone, and almost no reason to put them on a HT.

I'm confused. How was Poison made worse?

In both 6th and 7th you Wound on a fixed value (as listed in parenthesis) unless a lower number is needed. In both editions, unless otherwise specified, Poisoned weapons are Strength 1. In both editions they do nothing against vehicles.

In other words on a S6 model, against T1-4 you Wound on 2+ with re-roll, against T5 you Wound on a 3+ with re-roll, against T6+ you wound on the set value.

In 6th, against T6 you would wound on a 4+ with a reroll, and on T7+ wound on 4+ without a reroll.

In 7th, against T6 you lose that reroll.

For Nids, it means AG/TS gaunts used to wound marines on a 4+ with reroll, now they just wound on a 4+. Which means furious charge does nothing for them against T4 models.

Ah, missed that bit. It appeared to me you were making the claim that Poison was hit as hard with the Nerf bat as Nids were in general, and Poison was completely useless.

 Happyjew wrote:
Ah, missed that bit. It appeared to me you were making the claim that Poison was hit as hard with the Nerf bat as Nids were in general, and Poison was completely useless.

No, it was just some of the 'insult' to go with the 'injury'. And AG/TS got too expensive for gaunts anyway, so it doesn't really matter much.