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Assume, for the sake of argument, you're already into wargaming as a hobby, or were at some point. What convinces you to pick up another game?

(kind of curious as I consider what got me into the games I play, and why certain other games don't seem to interest me as much)

I think this question would be better as a list in order of importance.

For most people, I expect that there is a mix of factors. I am not surprised that models is so far (though only with 5 responses) the most common answer. I think in the wargaming market, models are the main reason most people get excited about a game. But I think it is also true that models without a game do not sell very well.

I am reminded of an interview Josh Qualtieri (Zombiesmith) did at Kublicaon this year in which he was asked about the game rules associated with the company's by now extensive Quar line of miniatures. Josh said that for a while the Quar models were sold without a related game, but he noticed that when attending a convention people who were interested in the models would ask about the game they were used for. Josh said that when he told these people that the models were just models that you could paint, display, use for whatever game you wanted, etc. most of these people would leave and he wouldn't see them again.

I think lots of wargamers like to have some reason to purchase a model or a line of models, other than purely for the sake of collecting, and a game provides a very handy reason, even if you never actually play the game. Just having a game helps to sell miniatures, because at the end of the day, you can't spell wargame without game.

I think part of it has to do with feeling like a miniature is going to see some 'practical' use, but another big part of it is that, in my opinion, wargaming is an exercise of the imagination as much as it is an exercise of game-play. I think people like to imagine what is going on in the world just outside of a miniature's base, and playing a game (or even thinking about playing a game) helps one to imagine that world, whether it is historical or fantastical.

Models is #1 for me.

Otherwise I'd still be playing games with card chits.

Then if I like the rules, I might start to play it. The fluff comes later - I stopped paying much attention to game fluff years ago (admittedly, it was mainly because GW's fluff became so laaaaaaame).

This has changed from what it was for me - originally, it was models, then fluff for the game. Rules last.

Wish it was multiple part answer. For me it's the minis, the artwork in the books and the rules/gameplay.

Without good rules, don't matter how good the minis are, I will not play or quit. Like in GW case, great minis, crappy rules.

I also like reading the fluff and what not but without good artwork to go with the rules/gameplay it's like reading a text book then and the fun goes away then.

Models first. I need to like the aesthetics of what I'm going to be painting, or there's zero chance of it getting painted. Painting is a big part of the hobby for me. Bonus points if not as many models are needed, as it takes me a long time to paint things.

Second is ease of entry. If all I need to start is one starter box and a rulebook and I've got a reasonable legal list, there's a good chance I'll try the game if the models appeal.

Third is price. Not just per model, but value for money in regards to what it gets me in the game. Your box of models might be reasonably priced as per the market, but if I need to buy 5-10 of those boxes to make a minimal part of a list, forget about it. Likewise, one model might be a significant part of a list, but if it's going to run me over $100, forget about it.

For me it's equal parts models, fluff, rules. If one is lacking then I won't have interest.

The visuals. Mainly the models, but also artwork, setting, etc.
I think 40k has really awesome models and the artwork is also great.
I pre-ordered Infinity: Icestorm because of the models and the whole city-scape in the box.

Models usually initially draw my attention, then I read the rules to see if it's worth playing. Even with major Kickstarter projects I will not back anything unless they preview the rules.

I've also bought many independent rule systems that have no associated model lines or settings, though.

So I guess rules first and foremost, at the end of the day.

I used to buy based on cool projects and still do to an extent, but I primarily buy to play now so it's a factor of what gets played at my local club which has rules I like. Thankfully it's a pretty diverse range.

I think the biggest factor is the style of the miniatures and artwork, like the box-art. That's what really captures my imagination and draws me into the game.
SDE was a game I picked up primarily because of the miniatures and style.
City of thieves is another game I got mostly for the miniatures, which are the old Rackham OOP ones and they're beautiful.
Zobmicide, I think I was drawn in by the artwork and concept.

The game play is a consideration. I will usually watch some youtube videos of game play before I buy anything. The game-play is what really sold me on Infinity. Relic Knights: I was very interested in, but when I saw the game-play it just didn't appeal to me. Claustrophobia I picked up because of a recommendation. Mansions of Madness I bought solely for the game play, because I had so much fun playing it with a friend.

Cost is a huge huge factor, even if I really like something it has to be priced right. I have loads of games already and I'm all too familiar what a money-sink they can be. I like to feel I'm getting good value. Games like Zombicide with 70+ miniatures in the box are hard to resist. Cthulhu Wars I really liked the look of, but felt it was too expensive, and the expansions were too expensive. Arena Rex looked good, but I wasn't keen on the prices. Infinity is a bit pricey per model, but the buy-in and rent seemed quite affordable, and I really liked that the miniatures are metal. The plastics is actually one of the things that put me off getting the Warmachine starter set.

For me, it varies, but largely it's about style. The game has to have something standing out for it in the fluff, the rules, the minis or whatever else that makes me think it's going to be fun to experience.

With 40k, the whole setting and theme grabbed me, epic Space Fantasy, guns bigger than the guys holding them and side of the best minis out there for a converter.

With Deadzone, the smaller scope was intriguing, as was the hard sci-fi setting and the dice and cards mechanics. The fact that £100 got me four complete factions and terrain helped to.

Malifaux got me with the minis, particularly the Death Marshalls. I see a game with skeletal fire-throwing cowboys and I need it. Need.

Infinity took me a while to get past the parts of the look I didn't like, the more anime-type stuff, but once I realised I liked every model in Icestorm and then took a look at the rules, I was in.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Models usually initially draw my attention, then I read the rules to see if it's worth playing. Even with major Kickstarter projects I will not back anything unless they preview the rules.

I've also bought many independent rule systems that have no associated model lines or settings, though.

So I guess rules first and foremost, at the end of the day.

But how many models have you purchased without rules?

Friends. If there is nobody to play with, why bother? While pick-up games are sometimes an option, if my friends aren’t interested in a game it’s not worth me picking it up. No matter how cool it looks.

While there are times I’ll bee the one to infect my group with a new game, it’s rare.

 Smacks wrote:
I think the biggest factor is the style of the miniatures and artwork, like the box-art. That's what really captures my imagination and draws me into the game.

You just made me smile. You made me remember what, 30 years ago or so (give or take a few years) I walked into my comic book shop and saw this Awesome looking box cover. I picked it up saw the art work and read what it was about. What was on the cover? The REAL Warhammer. What was the game? Battletech. Something about the box cover and how great looking the card board cut outs were (minis came later) and you can make your own mechs/units, I was sold.

So yes, great artwork is really needed to catch your eye. After that you need great artwork to draw you in. This is where Battletech failed for me, after it lost it's licence for mechs and became the "Unseens". The direction they went with their artwork and it went down hill for me. With nobody playing anymore, and I didn't see any value for sticking with it for collections sake, I quit. I quit the hobby for years and came back later.

Now about 20 years later I am surprised Battletech is still around and looked at it out of curiosity. While the artwork is still not as great as it use to be, it has improved a lot and I can get back into it. Without the artwork, it's really hard to imagine the universe on how it's suppose to be.

Still, doesn't matter how great the art work is, or the minis are, if the rules are CRAP, the game sucks then. Great Art work enhances the experience. Great minis makes it a pleasure on the eyes to play. Having great rules, is where the fun comes in.

I said gameplay or rules. This might seem odd coming from someone for whom the modeling and painting aspect of the hobby is most important. However, I rarely buy all-in-one games where the rules and miniatures are coming from the same company, so when I pick out rules, I'm looking just at rules.

I buy my miniatures on their own merits and my "game" rules on their own merit. My approach means that I never have to play rules I don't like because they are attached to cool minis and I never have to use minis I don't like because they have some exceptional rules.

Secondarily, would be the friends issue. My friends who I game with at my club are a huge influence on what I game. If there's no chance of getting them to play a game, there's very little chance I'll be purchasing it or keeping it for long once I do.

It was a factor of things for me. A friend showed me his boxed set for Dropzone. I though it was interesting but everything was on sprue still. It wasn't until I saw the units painted up and out on a battlefield that I really took notice.

then I began to read blogs, watch battle reports and borrowed a copy of the rules and I was hooked. A fairly tight rule set, great models, alternating activation - and I was hooked.

Rules and models though moreover the models. I like Warmachine's rules but their models are meh and are overpriced. DZA is a ton of fun but I don't care for the scale. Bolt action has good models, solid rules and the most intricate fluff I've ever seen.

Models and fluff hands down. I can bypass poor rules and poor attendance at my LGS if the first two are excellent.

I won't buy a game if I don't like the Turn Sequence mechanics. So, very specific rules are key.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Rules and models though moreover the models. I like Warmachine's rules but their models are meh and are overpriced. DZA is a ton of fun but I don't care for the scale. Bolt action has good models, solid rules and the most intricate fluff I've ever seen.

The fact Bolt Action's fluff is World War II probably helps things ; ).

weeble1000 wrote:
But how many models have you purchased without rules?

I bought exactly one model "just to paint" in my 15 years of gaming. I never got round to painting it.

I did buy a fair few models to use with other companies' rules though, especially 15mm scale sci-fi.

weeble1000 wrote:


But how many models have you purchased without rules?

About 100 or so. ALL of them are just models for the sake of getting the model and in my experience, most miniatures companies don't DO rules as well as minis.

Not to say you CAN'T use minis from company X (that doesn't do rules) with company Y's rules (because they don't do minis) - but I've got minis from more companies than I've got rulesets for.

weeble1000 wrote:

But how many models have you purchased without rules?

Several Hundred if you count figures just purchased for myself. Well over 1000 if you count figures I purchased just to resell.
I've got many armies and forces that were purchased entirely separately from the rules and background they ended up being used with.
Just a few examples.
-A half dozen Song of Blades and Heroes Warbands.
-A Void Junkers army. Never played Void, just wanted the figs for use in other games
-Bad-Guy KoW army with some minis taken from other games and lots of minis that never had a game from companies like Grenadier, reaper, etc.
-4 Post Apoc Warbands that have been used with half a dozen different games.

Whether Minis from Defunct games or Minis who never had a game to begin with, it's far too a wide wonderful world of minis to limit yourself just to minis with supported games.

weeble1000 wrote:
I think this question would be better as a list in order of importance.

For most people, I expect that there is a mix of factors. I am not surprised that models is so far (though only with 5 responses) the most common answer. I think in the wargaming market, models are the main reason most people get excited about a game. But I think it is also true that models without a game do not sell very well.

I am reminded of an interview Josh Qualtieri (Zombiesmith) did at Kublicaon this year in which he was asked about the game rules associated with the company's by now extensive Quar line of miniatures. Josh said that for a while the Quar models were sold without a related game, but he noticed that when attending a convention people who were interested in the models would ask about the game they were used for. Josh said that when he told these people that the models were just models that you could paint, display, use for whatever game you wanted, etc. most of these people would leave and he wouldn't see them again.

I think lots of wargamers like to have some reason to purchase a model or a line of models, other than purely for the sake of collecting, and a game provides a very handy reason, even if you never actually play the game. Just having a game helps to sell miniatures, because at the end of the day, you can't spell wargame without game.

I think part of it has to do with feeling like a miniature is going to see some 'practical' use, but another big part of it is that, in my opinion, wargaming is an exercise of the imagination as much as it is an exercise of game-play. I think people like to imagine what is going on in the world just outside of a miniature's base, and playing a game (or even thinking about playing a game) helps one to imagine that world, whether it is historical or fantastical.

This is pretty spot on for me. It's nice to buy models with the thought that they could be used for. Game even if they never will be

The theme, setting, and background is #1 for me. Someone could show me the best game ever created with amazing miniatures, but if I can't get into the background and invest myself in it, then it may as well not exist for me.

Models first, with a keen eye for a potential "in game use" even if these days I never get to do any actual gaming!

First and foremost good minis. Though I would argue interesting theme/fluff ties into that.

Every choice is a factor but it boils down to if people are playing it. Too many times I have bought a game (board game, RPG or miniatures) that no one will play and it sits in my closet unused.

I moved 9 months ago and I can't find anyone to play Infinity with me in my area. I love the game and had a blast playing it where I used to live but now it is a total waste of money and space so all I can play is 40K.

At this point, the number one thing would have to be lightweight, easy to learn rules. (That are also fun). Models are nice, but they're secondary, since I have enough models to last me ten lifetimes, and I shoehorn figures from other systems (or no systems) into existing games anyway.

I also need to be interested in the background/setting in some way, or it should be very easy to subvert for my own purposes. (Like using 40k models for Deadzone to Forge a Narrative in the 40k universe, but with Mantic's ruleset.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

weeble1000 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Models usually initially draw my attention, then I read the rules to see if it's worth playing. Even with major Kickstarter projects I will not back anything unless they preview the rules.

I've also bought many independent rule systems that have no associated model lines or settings, though.

So I guess rules first and foremost, at the end of the day.

But how many models have you purchased without rules?

Thousands. No, I'm not exaggerating.

Kinda interesting to note how many people said concept art...I wouldn't have said it was a big deal myself, but when I was leafing through the ork codex the other day, I definitely missed it. Photos of models are well and good for learning, but I guess it doesn't spark much desire for me to interpret them in my own way.

And almost all my models are bought for gaming purposes, but I bought http://www.amazon.com/Revell-Germany-Viking-Plastic-Model/dp/B000N2F5G4 at Nova, because there is no way me owning a model viking ship can be bad.