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This thread will be about my personal hobby project, which is namned Corvus Corax Miniatures. You may also find it on these places:
The blog: http://corvuscoraxminiatures.blogspot.se/
The Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CorvusCoraxMiniatures/

My idea is to create a small scale skirmish game set in a quite standard fantasy setting, and the focus will be around certain selected characters in this world. These characters would some of the main characters of each faction that is being developed, so for example, we would get to see and read more about the leaders, champions or heroes of these factions.

While I am writing the rules, the game mechanics and the background of this system and world, initially at this point, I am mainly focusing around releasing a handful of miniatures. As I am working on my own with this project, it is proceeding steadily but very slowly. I am sure the lot of you can relate to this. But, honestly, I am not in any particular hurry. Anyway, I am now at the point where I feel confident about showing the first miniature of this project.

The "scale" of the miniatures for this project will be 35 mm (yes, I am sorry, but this is my vision and I have to stay true to it rather than attempting to create proxy miniatures for other gaming systems. Also, another reason to why I decided to go a little larger is because, at heart, I am a miniature collector and I personally prefer a little larger miniatures where you can get a little extra attention put into each miniature).

This is a long-time dream coming through, so I hope I will be able to convey my excitment to you guys as my project proceeds. My goal is to have around 15-or-so miniatures ready for the skirmish game, which would be just enough for three different factions. There is obviously a long way there yet, but small steps.

The Corvus Corax Miniatures collection



Outcasts of the Dur Makeb Tribe

Kruuz, painted version


Kruuz, resin version


Oren, painted version


Oren, resin version


Oren, simple scale reference shot


Faun, painted version


Faun, resin version


Gorgr, master sculpt


Gorgr, painted version


Keras, master sculpt


Exiles of the Tetsu Clan

Shogi, painted version


Shogi, resin version


Aktra, painted version


Otomo, painted version


Lo Jun, master sculpt


Nomads of the Birch House

Agni, painted version


Rigfr, painted version


Clansmen of Caer Loch

Ulsor, master sculpt


Dullahan, master sculpt

I will be interested to see how this develops.

I have no problem with the scale, IIRC Ilyad miniatures were 35mm and I have plenty of those

Really digging the miniature, and your project/ambition is pretty cool!

Two things that kinda worry me:

1) Name: Corvus Corax might be part of GW's IP, and might end up working against you eventually. I'd try to go for another name.

2) Scale: I'm not fully convinced yet with the 35mm size. Why wouldn't it be possible to give the same level of attention/detail to a miniature of about 30-32mm (modern "28mm scale" stuff tends to be around 30mm to 32mm tall)? Using a more conventional scale will mean the miniatures will have a wider appeal. I don't think you can (or should want to) stop people from wanting to use your miniatures as proxies for other ranges. That's just how these things go I guess.

Beyond that, keep up the good work!

 Malika2 wrote:
1) Name: Corvus Corax might be part of GW's IP, and might end up working against you eventually. I'd try to go for another name.

Good point. I'll have to dig about about that a bit, although Corvus Corax is the latin name of a Common raven (http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/birding/common-raven/) so they wouldn't be able trademark that, in particular. If anything, it would have to be the name Corvus Corax Miniatures in particular if anything. But I'll have to search so I don't overstep any boundries. Thanks!

Probably should have painted him more like Venom, with the white eyes.



Looks good though.

No because if it is looking too much like venom, Marvel will be knocking on his door

grefven wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:
1) Name: Corvus Corax might be part of GW's IP, and might end up working against you eventually. I'd try to go for another name.

Good point. I'll have to dig about about that a bit, although Corvus Corax is the latin name of a Common raven (http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/birding/common-raven/) so they wouldn't be able trademark that, in particular. If anything, it would have to be the name Corvus Corax Miniatures in particular if anything. But I'll have to search so I don't overstep any boundries. Thanks!

There's also a German band named Corvus Corax:

 Malika2 wrote:
There's also a German band named Corvus Corax:

Who knows, maybe there is some inspiration right there for some future miniatures, eh? :p

I think regardless of the fact GW use it as a lore character in their game's universe (which probably isn't a great way to set yourself apart) it's kind of a weird name for a company - *unless* you know it's a 40k primarch, and then you're back to the original problem that it doesn't really set you apart and give you your own identity.

Love the model, and that's a nice paint job. I'd agree about the eyes, though.

It's a pretty confusing name for a company.. Doesn't exactly flow off the tongue.

Looks like a Grendel. Cool.

There are a lot of good points about the name, and I'll consider altering it. But the common raven is a mythical creature and has quite a special place in folklore and legends in both western and asian culture (it's actually a mythical creature all round the world). And not only seen historically, but also in modern litterature (Shakespeare and Edgar Allan Poe in particular, but we also see it in Omen and various Hitchcook). This is a reason why this particular name was chosen as the project is influenced by it. My project is also inspired by Norse mythology (more about this later) where the raven obviously is an important element. So there will be a lot of things tied into it. Maybe not so much directly for the miniatures, but in the background and stories about the characters, the world, their culture and so forth.

grefven wrote:
There are a lot of good points about the name, and I'll consider altering it. But the common raven is a mythical creature and has quite a special place in folklore and legends in both western and asian culture (it's actually a mythical creature all round the world). And not only seen historically, but also in modern litterature (Shakespeare and Edgar Allan Poe in particular, but we also see it in Omen and various Hitchcook). This is a reason why this particular name was chosen as the project is influenced by it. My project is also inspired by Norse mythology (more about this later) where the raven obviously is an important element. So there will be a lot of things tied into it. Maybe not so much directly for the miniatures, but in the background and stories about the characters, the world, their culture and so forth.

If you want to eventually turn this into a business, it doesn't really matter why you like a name if it is a weak and/or problematic mark. Having a strong, recognizable mark is objectively beneficial, and having a weak mark is objectively limiting.

If you like the name, keep it, but the more you use the name now, the more you stand to lose if you ever want to change it.

weeble1000 wrote:

grefven wrote:
There are a lot of good points about the name, and I'll consider altering it. But the common raven is a mythical creature and has quite a special place in folklore and legends in both western and asian culture (it's actually a mythical creature all round the world). And not only seen historically, but also in modern litterature (Shakespeare and Edgar Allan Poe in particular, but we also see it in Omen and various Hitchcook). This is a reason why this particular name was chosen as the project is influenced by it. My project is also inspired by Norse mythology (more about this later) where the raven obviously is an important element. So there will be a lot of things tied into it. Maybe not so much directly for the miniatures, but in the background and stories about the characters, the world, their culture and so forth.

If you want to eventually turn this into a business, it doesn't really matter why you like a name if it is a weak and/or problematic mark. Having a strong, recognizable mark is objectively beneficial, and having a weak mark is objectively limiting.

If you like the name, keep it, but the more you use the name now, the more you stand to lose if you ever want to change it.

If we are allowed an opinion grefven, the name of a company does have great importance (obviously that's not all to what makes a company great).
I'm quite sure there are absolutely no legal issues with the use of "Corvus Corax" as a name for a miniatures company and you can easily search if there are any trademarks or registered names by it via a lawyer (just like we did when we chose -and trademarked- ours). You need "a strong recognizable mark", weeble1000 couldn't have said it any better. It is something that sticks with you once you've chosen it and it is great you considered it having a deeper and more complex meaning, I think every company's name should :-)

Corvus Corax isn't much different in difficulty to Corvus Belli and yet Infinity doesn't seem to have been too hurt by that 'complicated' company name. It could certainly be simpler, but if your game has a nice simple name that more people will associate with instead of the company name (much like infinity) then you should be fine. I mean I've had conversations with people about infinity, and then later mentioned something about how well Corvus Belli is growing and they've wondered who the hell that is before I clarify they're the people making it.

 Ignatius-Grulgor wrote:
Corvus Corax isn't much different in difficulty to Corvus Belli and yet Infinity doesn't seem to have been too hurt by that 'complicated' company name. It could certainly be simpler, but if your game has a nice simple name that more people will associate with instead of the company name (much like infinity) then you should be fine. I mean I've had conversations with people about infinity, and then later mentioned something about how well Corvus Belli is growing and they've wondered who the hell that is before I clarify they're the people making it.

And yet how many people know that Corvus Beli sells anything other than Infinity? Also, I am not a lawyer and am not providing any legal advice here, just some basic observations.

Bear in mind Grefven, I don't have an opinion about whether "Corvus Corax" is a 'good' mark, but I did want to emphasize that there's a lot that comes with choosing a company name, and factors to consider other than what the name means to you.

A casual perusal of the Swiss trademark database does not turn up any registrations for "corvus corax," and seven registrations for "Corvus," but I don't know the category codes and only read English, so I don't know how those marks are being used. There's also six registrations for "Corax."

The USPTO has a hit for "Corvus Corax & Canis Lupis," registered for apparel, 35 records for some use of "Corvus," and 6 records for some use of "Corax."

A quick Google search also turned up this as the first hit.

Remember that you have a responsibility to perform due diligence before using a mark, i.e. you need to look to see if anyone is using the mark or anything similar to the mark, and investigate how those marks are being used. Searching for "Corvus and miniatures" also turns up lots of Infinity pages. Corvus is a generic term for a crow, but that would only matter if you were selling crows . Apple is a generic word for...apples, but it is a good mark for computers, which have nothing at all to do with fruit. Considering that, there is a prominent company operating within this specific market niche that is using "Corvus" as part of its mark.

This is all just food for thought, and my only salient point is that selecting a trademark is not just a simple matter of picking a name that you like.

Name sounds fine to me.

Thanks for all the input, there will be some consideration for sure! The "raven" symbolism has been deeply rooted within the project for a while so it's sort of one of the major influences within the background. The background sort-of has been built up through years of RPG:ing and writing fiction. There are also some ties to the star constellation in the background regarding "religion and believes". But yeah, I guess you could argue that the branding is more of an emotional one.

I have, obviously, been doing research to see if someone was using "Corvus Corax Miniatures" in particular, but I haven't considered name-related companies too much. Anyway, lots of input, greatly appreciated to see a lot of people wanting to help out independing projects in this quite competative market! Thus far, it doesn't feel like a complete miss, at least.

Don't worry about the name. Every time someone posts something on this site that even remotely sounds like latin, inevitably someone comes along to tell them that GW owns this, that or the other.

The fact is, GW has tried to trademark the entire dictionary and a court of law has determined that they are about 80 something percent full of BS.

well, to be fair, i did open this thread this morning wondering if someone had made a version of the Raven Guard Primarch...
the association is pretty strong...

that said, go with whatever you like...
it got me to open the thread...

best of luck with your new endeavor...

cheers
jah

I think it's sort of peculiar that some of the posts here talk about IP infringements regarding the name, when the head of the miniature is so blatantly copied from Venom.

Don't get me wrong, I love when new miniature makers makes it (badum tisch), but I'd be very worried about Marvel taking offense to their IP infringement. This is not just a resemblance, this is a copy, right down to the way the upper lip sneers, the ragged eyes, and the grotesquely exaggerated mouth. It doesnt help much that the colours are reversed, since Marvel's also already done that (google Marvel Symbiotes).

I really do wish you the best of luck, and I really like the concept too, but you NEED to get IP problems out of the way, if you want to have some succes with this.

Regarding the name; As a fellow scandinavian, I know what you trying to get at, regarding the raven - but how about a different route for setting you apart, like calling it Korp miniatures og Rafn Miniatures? Or even Munin Miniatures? (Raven in swedish, finlandic and one of Odins ravens, for you non-scandinavians out there. )

I second the size issue, I would make them a similar size to the 28mm heroic scale. Give the people the option to use them in other games.

 GuitaRasmus wrote:
Regarding the name; As a fellow scandinavian, I know what you trying to get at, regarding the raven - but how about a different route for setting you apart, like calling it Korp miniatures og Rafn Miniatures? Or even Munin Miniatures? (Raven in swedish, finlandic and one of Odins ravens, for you non-scandinavians out there. )

Speaking of which, I can recommend people looking at the viking triology, starting with When the Raven Flies. It has brought me lots of inspiration and will also have a good deal of influence of one of the nomadic factions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MSRC27 wrote:
I second the size issue, I would make them a similar size to the 28mm heroic scale. Give the people the option to use them in other games.

Also, regarding the size. I am fully aware that going with a bit larger scale will rule out a lot of people that would be interested in them, and while I also agree that the 28 mm scale can be incredibly detailed (Tre Manor's Red Box Games comes to mind, for example), but this is much more of a small, independed venture and not in any way aimed to a broad appeal. My vision will only appeal to a very niche market of what already is an incredible niche market. Beside, I believe that 35 mm soon will be the new 28 mm. So I'll just pretend this is to be ahead.

Some of you who might have stopped by the blog or the facebook page earlier might have seen some of the silhouettes that I've posted. Here is the full monty of five of the characters that are in development in different stages.

What do you guys think?

Well I'm a fan of the literal take on Dr Octopus, and anything that's even vaguely rhino based usually does well in my books. Not entirely sold on the birdman but maybe the sculpt will change my mind.

Where's my Mysterio analogue?!?

So I have to ask, are these like medieval spider man rouges gallery interptations?

Doc ock, rhino, vaulter, goblin and I can’t place the guy on the far left, or am I miss interrupting this? the first guy looks a lot like venom(thou that means he has the extended jaw and the eyes lol) but if it is this is a cool idea, PS who is the left guy(if this is spider man based.)

And good job on both following Ur dream and making a cool mini.

 Ignatius-Grulgor wrote:
Not entirely sold on the birdman but maybe the sculpt will change my mind.

The birdman will possibly be the latest of the line-up to be sculpted, so it will probably be quite a while before I get to that point. I'll have the sculptor to push an extra mile to make it something special.

Doc Ock, Rhino, Vulture... Green Goblin and Shocker?

grefven wrote:

MSRC27 wrote:
I second the size issue, I would make them a similar size to the 28mm heroic scale. Give the people the option to use them in other games.

Also, regarding the size. I am fully aware that going with a bit larger scale will rule out a lot of people that would be interested in them, and while I also agree that the 28 mm scale can be incredibly detailed (Tre Manor's Red Box Games comes to mind, for example), but this is much more of a small, independed venture and not in any way aimed to a broad appeal. My vision will only appeal to a very niche market of what already is an incredible niche market. Beside, I believe that 35 mm soon will be the new 28 mm. So I'll just pretend this is to be ahead.

I wish you all the best, and don't think you should change your preferred name because one company also took the Latin name of the common raven as a character name. The scale issue, I think is much bigger. While figures like not-venom there can pass, due to basically being a monster, humans in 35mm cut you out of 99% of the market. I get it that it's a personal project, and if that's all you want it to be, then that's fine, but remember that none of us are invested in your game or gameworld in even the slightest amount at this point, so it's a disincentive to picking up a few of the models.

Also, I'm hoping that the 35mm is the new 28mm thing is a joke. GW figures are probably about 30mm/32mm these days, but a big leap isn't ever going to take hold too well. Just ask Spartan Games...