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Made in us
Beast of Nurgle






I've been playing 40k for 13 years. I don't regret a single dime I've ill-advisedly spent on this game. It has led me to my most lasting and cherished friendships in meatspace. However I have to face the music, this game blows. Now 40k was never a balanced gameplay experience, there has always been "that build" through the years. So the fact that 7th is broken is not exactly news to me. It's been a few months since I've rolled a D6 on a 6' x 4' board and honestly I have basically no desire to do so anytime soon.

I was the guy that organized events and ran tournaments. Recently with 6th and 7th, organizing events has been a soul crushing experience. "What's allowed? Why can't I play with my Warhound in the 1850 tournament?! Why can't my army be 1 inquisitor and as many tau formations as I want? I want to play with my Horus Heresy stuff in the upcoming 40k event, is that cool? What, what do you mean, why not?" Endless facebook arguments that always end with someone rage quitting the event and then not bringing any of their friends. 40k as of late in my local area seems to be attracting the "wrong" kind of gamer, the kind of gamer that enjoys spawn camping in online games and tries to get away with as many rules as they can bully their opponent into. "Can I put some turrets with executioner cannons in my deployment zone, the rules say gun emplacements can be terrain. and we have to agree on the terrain." These are the kind of people that bring broken nonsense to narrative events and claim that the rules allow them to bring such and such and we can't exclude them.

Now I know these experiences are not universal. However I look at other games and players can bring what they want, and people have a good time. This is because the games are actually well-written and well balanced enough that two players of equal skill usually have a tight game. The core of our gaming group has moved on to Malifaux and Infinity. We find that we argue less about rules and how "broken" something is and more on "well that was a fun game, I lost but If I did this and this I could have won." Not to mention those games are far less expensive to play, and with everyone getting older, having mortgages and families, smaller less expensive games with more depth appear to be where it's at for us. I'll still hang on to my 40k models, perhaps one day someone competent will write some rules for GW.

Anyone else feel this kind of malaise towards 40k, or any other game that you loved and played for a long time?
   
Made in us
Cosmic Joe





I played 40k for over twenty years. Quit this year. Started playing Warmachine and Infinity and haven't looked back. I had some good times with 40k, but compared to the other games out there, it just too much of a mess with gross power imbalances, convoluted rules and sloppy additions to the game that polarize the playerbase.



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

I think you'll find that this forum is full of people like you.

People drift in and out of the hobby over time, so its hard to really get a gauge on the overall net loss, but my gaming group has sold most of our 40k armies over the last few years.
   
Made in us
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






See ya



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November 2010 
   
Made in us
Martial Arts Fiday






Nashville, TN

20+ years here. Stopped last year and play Infinity now.

Once you go D20 you never go back!

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 warboss wrote:

GW didn't mean to hit your wallet and I know they love you, baby. I'm sure they won't do it again so it's ok to purchase and make up.


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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Stopped in '09 and sold everything. Want to start again, even picked up a bunch of stuff on ebay, but the game in its current form holds no appeal. Unfortunately, something about the models, setting etc of the other options out there don't appeal to me much which is sort of odd since I'm not big on the whole grimdark aspect of 40k.

I'm stuck fiddling with homebrew rules and the hope I can get my kids to want to play and eventually have something sort of competitive. Also got old 4th and 5th rules and come codexes so I can play those if I ever find someone who wants to. Those editions may not have been perfect, but were close to what I want in the game for the most part.
   
Made in us
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot




Magnolia, TX

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Made in us
Sneaky Lictor




I stopped playing a couple of months before 6.5/7 and despite having picked up a Necron army that ended up costing me $0 and still haven't played...I have a about six armies right now just collecting dust as I have lost interest in playing...though I have been getting into WHFB lately and it is a much better game. It doesn't help that it is still expensive as heck and the rules have some extremely questionable problems, but it is fun still.
   
Made in us
Sniping Hexa





Some small city in nowhere, Illinois,United States

Stopped fully with 40k and Fantasy for almost a full year, and currently the thing I'd ever really touch from Games Workshop is some of the specialist games and kits to convert for those and/or traded with people since the current game holds little to no appeal to me now. If I want my 40k expierence, there are homebrew rules and the FFG RPGS (maybe even their new LCG if it is good and get one of the RPGs finally).


I Moved on to Warmachine/Hordes and Infinity as my main games, and I feel like my gaming has never been better or more refreshed. Granted I had some really good times with 40k and Fantasy,but I cannot support a game with horrible balance and rules issues as I see it.

My personal blog. Aimed at the hobby and other things of interest to me

The obligatory non-40K/non-Warmahordes player in the forum.
Hobby Goals and Resolution of 2017: Paint at least 95% of my collection (even if getting new items). Buy small items only at 70% complete.
 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





Oregon, USA

Not completely given up on 40K, but scaling WAY back.

I've been into 40K since the beginning, and have been playing less and less since 6th and 7th hit.

I've sold the bulk of my 40k armies, hanging onto a small, themed army from each.

I am getting started with Malifaux, Infinity, Warmahordes...

I'm also playing some of the old GW games a lot more, like Necromunda, Space Hulk, Tyranid Attack, Blood Bowl, Gorkamorka...

And i'm having a blast

I got so tied into being a 40K player i forgot the other great games out there, and now i'm giving some of them a shot

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Made in au
Oberstleutnant






Perth, West Australia

The Why I left GW and where I went to thread might be useful for you OP. You're far from alone. GWs shenanigans seem to have gotten drastically worse lately. Some people can get enjoyment from the game still but many can't - thankfully there are many other options out there. We can still enjoy 40k thanks to video games and novels, and hopefully some rule systems will gain widespread acceptance as a replacement for 40k with 40k army lists. I can still get enjoyment out of my 40k models thanks to these things - my Blood Ravens for example I want because of the video games and am enjoying assembling and painting them regardless of not playing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/09 04:38:27


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

Im trying to scale back myself, Im not sure what I think about 40k tbh. I mean rules wise I believe its a joke, and has been for a long time, but Im so... ambivalent I guess you could say towards everything else. The fluff, which I once loved, has become a bit stale IMO, between various retcons, Matt Ward tropes, and sheer utter nonsense that lacks logical consistency within its own setting, it just doesnt do it for me anymore... I think the GrimDark has lost much of its GrimDark, and the fact that the timeline is basically stopped at the last minutes of when things are really starting to get interesting isnt helping either. Its just stale...

Model wise I feel theyve taken an "art-direction" towards something more cartoony in appearance, which is a but of a turnoff... a lot of these recent kits look like they were designed to appeal to prepubescent boys moreso than anyone with descent aesthetic taste.

I think the biggest turnoff is the costs though, I once purchased every new rulebook as it came out... rulebooks are more than double the price that they were when I got into the hobby, on top of that there are twice as many of them, and even then I wont have a complete collection as there are rules which are only available in white dwarf or via online download, and damnit if I dont have the time, money, space, interest or mental faculties to keep track of and properly organize all the different rules sources that now exist.

And then we have Fantasy, which I feel IS actually a solid ruleset and setting which has earned itself a bad reputation for whatever reason... sadly nobody plays it, and it looks like GW is going to nuke it and give it tye 40k treatment.

These days Im playing WMHDs, Infinity, Dropzone Commander, X-Wing, and Malifaux and very much enjoying it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/09 05:19:12


CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought





The Beach

The recent developments in the game both ruleswise and stylistically have killed most of my enjoyment.

We've been playing Necromunda recently. It's far more fun than whatever 40K has turned into.


Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?

True Scale Space Marines: Tutorial, Posing, Conversions and other madness. The Brief and Humorous History of the Horus Heresy

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Made in jp
Sinewy Scourge






USA

I just sent out my first order for infinity. I have 3 40k armies and I will not be buying anymore. The recent changes to rules and the game itself have obliterated my interest in the system. They lost a good customer in me. Oh well, at least I can sell off extra 40k stuff to fund a game thats actually tactical/balanced. The toxicity of the 40k boards is really off putting, but its to be expected.

Have fun with infinity!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/09 06:48:10


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Made in au
Hacking Proxy Mk.1





Australia

I wasn't around for anywhere near as long as some of you but God I know that feeling all too well.

Infinity, Dystopian Wars, X wing and the like are all scratching my itch now and I am a lot happier for it.

 Fafnir wrote:
Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
 
   
Made in gb
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM





-

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/24 10:34:19


Bye bye Dakkadakka, happy hobbying! I really enjoyed my time on here. Opinions were always my own :-) 
   
Made in dk
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

 Bottle wrote:
Go back and play the old editions you liked more. I'm hoping to play a few games of 2nd edition with my bro when he's back in the country. 2nd edition and 5th are the ones I had the most fun with, so that's what we play.

I also recommend Necromunda!

Playing Kill Team or Combat patrol is also a good idea. It's easier to play super competitively but without steamrolling everyone with a cheesy build.

If he was a TO (and judging by his complaints) there is a good chance the social aspect was a large part of the hobby for him. If you pick your own older edition, you're gonna be playing with that one mate that also liked that edition better.
GW has saturated the market with endless versions that, rather than improving on the old rules, keeps rewriting them entirely, making each edition a game of its own with some adherents sticking to the previous one.
On top of this, they keep releasing these additions or changes to the main game that keeps chipping off people to those alternatives too. In the end we're all scattered around too many different versions of the game, in a scene that is already not huge to begin with.

GW is a company that seems completely blind to this problem, and just keeps saturating to try and fix the saturation problem.
If you want to look at a company that sees this problem and addresses it, because they know that their players don't know what's best for them, then look at Riot games of the League of Legends computer game.

First of all, LOL has millions of players. They are not even close to having the small scene that 40k does, and yet they know to address the problem before it becomes one.
In LOL you have four different game modes that the game actively promotes. You have 3v3, 5v5, ARAM and Dominion. The least popular of which is Dominion.

They also sometimes have a fifth. What they do is, they make up a fifth game mode, implement it, and let it run for a month or two. Then they completely remove it again.
Some of these modes become very popular. Ultra Rapid Fire mode and Doombots come to mind, and many many people ask for these modes to come back full time (Especially URF.)
But it doesn't matter. Riot knows that if they keep adding different modes, they will be dragging players from the other modes. If you saturate too much and it becomes a chore to find a game, people that cried to get all these modes will start getting tired of the wait times and leave the game altogether.

Competing with your own game is a bad business idea. and people that say "if you don't like the current edition you're free to play the older ones!" can't see farther than their own noses. Disclaimer: Bottle here didn't say it that way. He was trying to give a leaving disillusioned player a tip on how to keep doing something that he has obviously enjoyed before. What I'm talking about are the "GW appologists" that see going playing another edition as a solution to GW releasing bad editions. The people that say "if you don't like escalation, then don't play against escalation players! Simple!" and don't see that that would mean alienating parts of a crowd that we can't afford to alienate.

 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




Snake Mountain

 lordwellingstone wrote:
I've been playing 40k for 13 years. I don't regret a single dime I've ill-advisedly spent on this game. It has led me to my most lasting and cherished friendships in meatspace. However I have to face the music, this game blows. Now 40k was never a balanced gameplay experience, there has always been "that build" through the years. So the fact that 7th is broken is not exactly news to me. It's been a few months since I've rolled a D6 on a 6' x 4' board and honestly I have basically no desire to do so anytime soon.

I was the guy that organized events and ran tournaments. Recently with 6th and 7th, organizing events has been a soul crushing experience. "What's allowed? Why can't I play with my Warhound in the 1850 tournament?! Why can't my army be 1 inquisitor and as many tau formations as I want? I want to play with my Horus Heresy stuff in the upcoming 40k event, is that cool? What, what do you mean, why not?" Endless facebook arguments that always end with someone rage quitting the event and then not bringing any of their friends. 40k as of late in my local area seems to be attracting the "wrong" kind of gamer, the kind of gamer that enjoys spawn camping in online games and tries to get away with as many rules as they can bully their opponent into. "Can I put some turrets with executioner cannons in my deployment zone, the rules say gun emplacements can be terrain. and we have to agree on the terrain." These are the kind of people that bring broken nonsense to narrative events and claim that the rules allow them to bring such and such and we can't exclude them.

Now I know these experiences are not universal. However I look at other games and players can bring what they want, and people have a good time. This is because the games are actually well-written and well balanced enough that two players of equal skill usually have a tight game. The core of our gaming group has moved on to Malifaux and Infinity. We find that we argue less about rules and how "broken" something is and more on "well that was a fun game, I lost but If I did this and this I could have won." Not to mention those games are far less expensive to play, and with everyone getting older, having mortgages and families, smaller less expensive games with more depth appear to be where it's at for us. I'll still hang on to my 40k models, perhaps one day someone competent will write some rules for GW.

Anyone else feel this kind of malaise towards 40k, or any other game that you loved and played for a long time?


This is basically the exact same scenario I am in, only difference is you've been playing for 3 more years than me

I've played 3-4 games of 7th and each game has been more soul destroying than the last. I found that taking a break and playing other games has really helped, I've been doing a lot of 40k RP and working on a lot of my other forces for other games (Warmahordes, Infinity etc), I now no longer even miss 40k, I'll get back to it one day I reckon but for now I'm content being free from the stress and needless over-complication from both the games and my local players.

I've picked up the GK book and the Nemesis Vanguard, my plan is probably in a few months I'll build that as a new force and that'll launch me back into the game a bit more, but that will probably be another 6+ months away or even longer.

My general philosophy is if you aren't enjoying something, don't do it. Although this is the first time I've really had to apply it to 40k which is quite sad but I understand where you are coming from.

'I'm like a man with a fork, in a world of soup.'

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Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Manchester, NH

I have not played anywhere as long as some other players. I started in a few years ago near the end of 5th ed. I enjoy building and painting the models a lot. The game could probably be better, but I still enjoy playing. I have found the concerns over all of the different/chnaged rules and OP stuff is kind of a tempest in a teapot. if you don't make a big deal about it is nowhere near as game breaking or bad as people make it out to be. Is there imbalance, sure, but I can get over it, play the game as the rules state and don't worry about house ruling stuff to "fix" the perceived imperfections. I simply just play as the current rules state and have enough fun playing with people I know at the local shop.

The other thing about moving to other systems is finding people to play with is so much more difficult. 40K has plenty of players and finding a game on just about any weekend I want one is not difficult. that is not the case with other games.

For now I will continue to build and paint my models and play an occasional game every other week or so.
   
Made in us
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




USA, Maine

I have been playing 40k for 15 years and still love it.

I actually enjoy playing with the variety the game currently allows. I think 5th was the most balanced edition, but this is the most flexible and fun.

Painted armies:

Orks: 11000 points
Marines: 9500 points
Khorne Marines: 2500 points
Khorne Demons: 1500 points 
   
Made in us
Beast of Nurgle






Part of it is though that i find that even under ideal conditions the game (40k) is still a bear to actually play. There's so much pre-game and unless both sides are really well matched all that effort easily slips into an exercise in patience. But my experience is not universal and i get that. There's so much social engineering that makes 40k so bad, if you take that which is good from a list building and tabletop perspective you are TFG. But if you take a soft fluffy list then you have so little hope of getting a decent game in.

All the other games i mentioned don't have that divide. You just play the game. You can play the game to the best of your abilitu and nobody dislikes you for it.
   
Made in us
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




USA, Maine

Totally fair. I think of it more like Magic the Gathering. There are different formats and some formats will trash others.

If GW would take similar steps to create codes or names for the different lists, other than Battle Forged and Unbound, it would probably help.

Painted armies:

Orks: 11000 points
Marines: 9500 points
Khorne Marines: 2500 points
Khorne Demons: 1500 points 
   
Made in us
Beast of Nurgle






Agreed, i think the game would be massively better off if there were officially supported formats. Players would know where it is and is not okay to bring certain kinds of armies.
   
Made in us
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




USA, Maine

I wonder if they are concerned people won't get certain models if they play in an area where specific formats are frowned upon.

Magic certainly requires less of a commitment, since you aren't buying, assembling, and painting cards!

Painted armies:

Orks: 11000 points
Marines: 9500 points
Khorne Marines: 2500 points
Khorne Demons: 1500 points 
   
Made in fi
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





I actually have been playing 40k for only few years.
But even in that short time I've been terrified by the problems in both internal and external balance of codices and it just makes the game difficult to enjoy every now and then.
I still love the game and like the fluff, but I am interested in Infinity as one of my friend said that he played it some years ago.

How do you people find the game overall, are the rules balanced enough?

4000p
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Made in us
Monstrous Master Moulder




Rust belt

There is life after 40k.
   
Made in at
Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren





40k is balanced.

Because it's not one army that is ridiculously broken, but most armies.

And if you happen to have an army that is underpowered, there is nothing limiting you from allying in stronger stuff now.

So nobody feels disadvantaged, except the guys who want to stick with one codex and feel angry that GW is no longer publishing codexes with good internal balance that also scale up well to other codexes.


The tourney scene hasnt changed much... while emphasis in the early days was put on creating the most beardy list a codex could provide, emphasis now lies on creating the most beardy combination of allies and units instead.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/09 21:02:27


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 Ravenous D wrote:
40K is like a beloved grandparent that is slowly falling into dementia and the rest of the family is in denial about how bad it is.
squidhills wrote:
GW is scared of girls. Why do you think they have so much trouble sculpting attractive female models? Because girls have cooties and the staff at GW don't like looking at them for too long because it makes them feel funny in their naughty place.
 
   
Made in us
Cosmic Joe





 Sir Arun wrote:
40k is balanced.

Because it's not one army that is ridiculously broken, but most armies.

And if you happen to have an army that is underpowered, there is nothing limiting you from allying in stronger stuff now.

So nobody feels disadvantaged, except the guys who want to stick with one codex and feel angry that GW is no longer publishing codexes with good internal balance that also scale up well to other codexes.


The tourney scene hasnt changed much... while emphasis in the early days was put on creating the most beardy list a codex could provide, emphasis now lies on creating the most beardy combination of allies and units instead.

I'm not sure if this was said, tongue in cheek, but "Just ally with a codex that's actually good" isn't a very good solution.



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in us
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






 MWHistorian wrote:
 Sir Arun wrote:
40k is balanced.

Because it's not one army that is ridiculously broken, but most armies.

And if you happen to have an army that is underpowered, there is nothing limiting you from allying in stronger stuff now.

So nobody feels disadvantaged, except the guys who want to stick with one codex and feel angry that GW is no longer publishing codexes with good internal balance that also scale up well to other codexes.


The tourney scene hasnt changed much... while emphasis in the early days was put on creating the most beardy list a codex could provide, emphasis now lies on creating the most beardy combination of allies and units instead.

I'm not sure if this was said, tongue in cheek, but "Just ally with a codex that's actually good" isn't a very good solution.



It's a perfect solution. If you're jaded by a book not being the strongest out there, then allying solves this. And if you dint care about winning then just bring your army and it will be fine. It's only a bad solution for people who only want to win but are unwilling to budge from their mediocre list, and those people generally don't exist.



" $@#& YOU! There are 3 things I want in a guy: Tall, Handsome, and plays Dark Eldar!"-every woman since
November 2010 
   
Made in us
Cosmic Joe





 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
 MWHistorian wrote:
 Sir Arun wrote:
40k is balanced.

Because it's not one army that is ridiculously broken, but most armies.

And if you happen to have an army that is underpowered, there is nothing limiting you from allying in stronger stuff now.

So nobody feels disadvantaged, except the guys who want to stick with one codex and feel angry that GW is no longer publishing codexes with good internal balance that also scale up well to other codexes.


The tourney scene hasnt changed much... while emphasis in the early days was put on creating the most beardy list a codex could provide, emphasis now lies on creating the most beardy combination of allies and units instead.

I'm not sure if this was said, tongue in cheek, but "Just ally with a codex that's actually good" isn't a very good solution.




It's a perfect solution. If you're jaded by a book not being the strongest out there, then allying solves this. And if you dint care about winning then just bring your army and it will be fine. It's only a bad solution for people who only want to win but are unwilling to budge from their mediocre list, and those people generally don't exist.

What if I want to play Chaos Marines without allies? What's a Nid player to do? Basically you're saying "Sure, your army sucks. Better get a new one!" That's the kind of solutions that turn people away from the game. Invalidation of a player's army is never a good solution. You're ignoring the problem and making other problems instead.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/09 21:51:00




Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
 
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