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Ok so I understand this is a very unusual title for a thread, however this is a thread my opponent requested me to post up from Saturday just gone.

Further more I cannot remember all the units my opponent had within his army, so if my opponent would like to post his list he used in battle or shoot me a PM of that list so I can put it in this OP.

All I am about to tell you is what I experienced and what went through my mind at these points of times, I will make this OP as neutral as I can, but just letting everyone know that this is my perception regarding what happened.

So, Saturday a fortnight ago I was talking to my opponent about the state of the game and how I was observing how every army within the meta of the game at my LGS was turning into a gunline meta and how as someone who plays assault armies (primarily Orks and CSM) the game was becoming a bit boring for me knowingly that every game felt like I was playing tactics used in the operations of The Battle of the Somme and Omaha Beach, (and when I say this I mean no disrespect, just the way I have observed the game is that for me is that I find myself constantly charging right into the enemy lines whilst my opponents just blaze away with ease because to me the game has become better adjusted to shooting armies than assault, but that is just my opinion).

We then agreed to have a combat game, we were discussing about my Orks however I decided on to use a Khorne force from my CSM as to be fair I was sick of my Orks. I had told my opponent this on that day, I also said to my opponent that I may use tanks because I did not know what I was going to use yet, my opponent said that they will have anti-tank in the form of Thunder hammers.

We agreed to a 2000pt game.

So as the week went on I sat there debating on what to put in my Khorne force, so I came up with the following self-imposed conventions to keep to when building this list:

1) The most important... It had to be Khorne, anything that can take a mark, daemon or dedication has to be Khorne, no mixing of other gods within the force. BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!

2) The force had to be as painted as possible, anything that was fully painted to the colours of WE had to be used, if I had not anymore painted models I will have tried to use basecoated red models. after that then I could use unpainted stuff but still following to convention 1).

3) No competitive units were to be used, that meant I did not want to use the Dynamic Duo (as I call my dual Baleflamer Helldrakes) and Obliterator's. This was not meant to be a competitive game, just a game where we both chuck some dice.

4) I had to feel comfortable with the list I made, it was my first time using a Khorne list and I wanted to feel at least a little bit comfortable with the choices I made in new territory so to say.

5) WYSIWYG as much as possible.

And so I had created a List with the following (I will also guide you all through why I had made these choices):

H.Q

Kharn the Betrayer (warlord)

(seems obvious for a Khorne list)

Sorcerer
VoTLW
(2) additional mastery levels
Sigil of corruption
Burning brand
(3) Powers from Malefic demonology (Khorne Daemons)

(Ok I understand that this may make people think that something fishy is going on.. Sorcerer in a Khorne list? I chose this guy because as according to Convention 1) I needed as much Khorne as possible and I have a shed ton of Bloodletters and a squad of Bloodcrushers which I added, my fluff behind this that this Sorcerer was for hire or was a Khornate Sorcerer, as I know Sorcerer's can choose to worship Khorne however Khorne treats then as if they don't exist like a secret swept under the carpet so to say, and I know I could have taken Allies however this meant I would be breaking convention 2) as it means I would have not been able to field some of the fully painted models).

Troops:

(10) Khorne Berserkers
(10) VoTLW
Champ: Meltabmobs (X2)


Rhino Dedicated transport
Dirge Caster
Combi-Bolter
Dozer Blade
Extra Armour (X2)


(9) Khorne Berserkers
(9) VoTLW
Champ: Meltabombs

Rhino Dedicated transport
Dirge Caster
Combi-Bolter
Dozer Blade
Extra Armour

(This also seems a bit obvious as it is a Khorne list)

Elites:

Contemptor Dreadnought:
Dedication of Khorne
Extra Armour
Twin-Linked Lascannon
DCC with in-built Meltagun

(Ok so yes a contemptor is within the list And it is painted to the colours of red and the Dark Mechanicum, however it did follow convention 1), 4) and 5) hence why I chose it).

Hellbrute

(I chose this as it followed Convention 2).

Heavy Support:

Vindicator
Siege shield
Combi-Bolter
Extra armour

(I chose this as it followed convention 1), 2) and 5) plus it was its first game in its new paintjob, so naturally I wanted to test it out )

Defiler
Dirge caster
Extra Armour

(I chose this unit as it filled in convention 1) and 2) as it was painted WE colours).

Blood Slaughterer of Khorne

(I chose this under convention 1) and the model is really cool).



So that was my list and I was ready for the Saturday cometh.


My Opponent brought Space Wolves and Grey Knights.


So I get to my FLGS and start bring the units out of my box, and my opponent has a small gripe with me as my opponent has little anti-tank within the force in the form of one thunder hammer, one power fist and one of something else which I cannot remember.

The Deployment was DoW and mission was Purge the Alien, we decided to just take these missions and not roll for them just to speed up the game.

The units I remember that were on the table were a unit of TAC SW marines, Thunderwolf cavalry and in reserve he had his GK, I also think he had 1 or 2 Dreadknight in reserve that he did roll for to come on.

I then say that he could add in the Knight Errant (the one with the Melta canon) he brought with him to which he accepted.


So we roll off for deployment. I won the roll off and said that my opponent could deploy first.

My opponent deploys, and as we both deployed in the deployment phase another player on the opposite side of the table who was watching a game of WM/H came over to our table, and we talked and had light hearted jest about how my list was "OP and Broken" because it had no Helldrakes or Obliterator's. this of course was just light hearted jest and no offence was meant to come from it.

So I deploy my force knowingly my opponent was not happy that I brought armour into the game I looked at his deployment, I then saw were his infantry and Wolves where, and I decided to make two deliberate tactical errors. I decided to deploy my Vindicator and Defiler away from his infantry units already on the board and in front of his Knight within deployment distance and I decided on this as I had said before this was not meant to be a competitive game and I just wanted to chuck some dice around, not sledgehammer units into submission.

I deployed my Rhinos with Zerkers and Kharn in front of his infantry as well as my Khorne Demonology Sorcerer so I could summon my Bloodletters and my Zerkers could be able to fight hand to hand with my opponents infantry, a good fight marine on marine as I thought to myself.

My Contemptor Blood slaughterer and Hellbrute were deployed compactly within the middle of the board as they had no where else to be deployed plus it allowed flexibility to reinforce which every flank was taking the largest casualties.

So I roll to Seize after my deployment, which I failed.

My opponent takes the first turn and rolls for reserves for the dreadknight AFAIK (I think my opponent was using the new GK formation in the codex), both of which failed to come on the board.

My opponent rushes everything forward to get too combat quickest I had assumed.

Shooting phase, my opponent fires his Knights melta cannon and covers the Defiler and the Blood slaughterer.

My opponent then rolls for scatter in which the scatter moves 5" away from the Blood slaughterer but still catches the Defiler.

My opponent the rolls for penetration, and succeeds to penetrate the tank.

I then take my Invulnerable save for the Defiler..

Its a 2/6 chance on a 5+ I needed to save my Defiler..

I roll..

I succeed on a dice result of a 5..

At this point my opponent then declares that he is conceding the game..

My opponent then goes on to vent off at me saying that "I don't care about others"..

So I say to my opponent that he could add 500pts onto his list, (afterall I could have not cared if I won or lost the game, I just wanted to throw some dice around) to which my Opponent refused..

My Opponent then keeps on venting off at me saying that "I don't play for fun" and that "I don't play fairly, I don't care about what my opponent thinks, all I had done is laugh at my opponent throughout the game" and that "I did not/don't bring fluffy/friendly list to the game" and apparently I'm "one of the worst". due to the fact I brought armour and demonology completely disregarding what the actual units were and generalising them as if I had brought Land raiders and Tzeench daemons to the table (at least that's how I felt due to the way my opponent was acting towards me)..

My opponent then attempted to silence my opinion in regarding to what I say on this very Wargaming Forum of DakkaDakka by saying that "I cannot say anymore on Dakka about how my opponent does not want to see me posting about how I should treat and adapt to my opponents after that game"

At this point I did not speak at all as I just found that there was no use trying to talk to my opponent whilst he was venting off at me, only saying that I brought a Khorne force..

My Opponent the asked of me to post in topic in this forum asking if I had played fairly..

My Opponent then packs up his stuff and then proceeds to leave the LGS with the following words "You've wasted my weekend. Cheers!"..

At this point I had no game, it was luckily I had another friend who turned up with his stuff for 40k and so we then proceeded to have a game in which I lost, but like I said I could not have cared less and I just wanted to chuck some dice around.



So afterall that and I will admit I was a bit stumped and a bit shocked at first, mainly because I thought I had brought a combat force, afterall everything that was Khorne or could be Khorne I took, I kept guns to a minimal and I had no idea of what my opponent was bringing aside from marines.


So here we come to the question. after all I have told you very people on Dakka about everything I know in depth, was I being a TFG WAAC gamer? was I playing unfairly? and did my list appear to have the intention of curb stomping my opponent mercilessly?

Like I say I could understand if I shoved 3 LR right in front of my opponent, I could also understand if I brought a gunline army to my opponent, I could also understand if I tried to exploit the rules and get demonology for use with Tzeench and somehow get a weird combination to a Screamer Star, all that I could understand if my opponent was upset with me, but I really did not think my list was that bad so as stumped gamer as I ask you all, was I wrong? was I being selfishly WAAC? I am inclined and interested to hear upon your thoughts..

Cheers to all comments

Edit: Grammar and spelling

Sounds like he didn't bring anything to punch trhough the armor so "rage quit" and blaimed you for it.
The fact that you are missing 2 hell turkeys tells me you arn't going for the most optimized build i think.

wat

Since when did Khorne lists become WAAC?
Your opponent should have brought something to punch through armour. You always need to have something that can deal with armour.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Since when did Khorne lists become WAAC?
Your opponent should have brought something to punch through armour. You always need to have something that can deal with armour.

Best response lol.

I see nothing wrong here. you used only a very sparing amount of armor. he was warned in advance, and had the tools to deal with it. Honestly, I think he could have tabled you with the Knight and dreadknight alone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
You always need to have something that can deal with armour.

This. I mean it's not like you where running a land raider rush. 2 rhinos, a vindicator and a defiler will die easily eneugh, can't comment on the contemptor. but I can't see em being more then av 13

A list is not what makes someone WAAC TFG.

The overuse of both those terms gets tiring. People who are poor sports, who actively seek to harm the enjoyment of others knowingly, and general douchebaggery unrelated to the contents of your army list are what defines someone as a WAAC player or TFG.

I won't even get into how your list was pretty fething far from optimized. Your opponent just straight up sucks. Sounds like he was looking for an easy win, not a fun game.

 Blacksails wrote:
Sounds like he was looking for an easy win, not a fun game.

I'll second that.

This sounds like one of the tfg's that I know. He concedes if any dark eldar shadow field takes less than 10 rolls to fail.

Based on what you're telling us, I voted no.

I can't believe how seriously people take this stuff. I played one of my first games of 40k at a gaming club a few weeks ago. I brought my dark eldar army (which is totally not built to be competitive) and got completely smashed by the club organiser (he played sm). I had some horrendous luck (e.g my wyches charged a tactical squad, failed to kill anyone, took 2 wounds, fled and were wiped out).

At the end of it, he apologised for beating me so heavily. I just laughed and thanked him for playing. I learned a lesson or two and met someone new.

If you leave a game like yours or mine feeling like its "ruined your weekend" it suggests you need to mature a little. Life's too short for this sort of nonsense.

First things first, this is a game, don't get too down about it. Maybe the guy had some other things going on in his life, who knows?

some things that I want to mention as I read this.

1) if I was your opponent I would've expected maybe half the armor that you brought and for the vehicles to have no guns or maybe 1 at max, then if his power fist or hammer manages to tear through all of your units and is able to destroy your armor on the final turn then it would just be epic. That being said, in order to play like that it would be like Omaha beach all over again with Rhino's acting as the landing boats but instead of your guys getting shot to bits they would be shred to bits by his melee units. Still doesn't excuse the fact that he was expecting to win.

2) Realistically even if your opponent was mad at the list you brought, or that you didn't bring orks so he couldn't chop through wave after wave of boys, it all comes down to the dice. By the end of the day it wasn't whose list was better, the only thing that matters is whose dice rolling was better.

3) I might be reading into this too much but with your armor having some big guns that could wipe whole squads with a single turn. He might have felt that if he couldn't kill your big guns first turn you would be able to kill a large portion of his army and turn it into armor vs. armor shootout.

So in conclusion I can see where they're coming from but I really don't think it's ok to walk away and call your opponent a TFG.

I would like to point out to the guy that said the opponent should mature up, hes a 40 odd year old bloke. The guy making the topic is a teenager!

loleypainter wrote:
I would like to point out to the guy that said the opponent should mature up, hes a 40 odd year old bloke. The guy making the topic is a teenager!

A sad real life example of the perils of decades of GW rules exposure...

The way I see it, from your point of view, is your opponent is a cry baby and needs to win with plastic toy soldiers.

I believe your opponent is like me. He can't play the game. He can only grasp a little bit of the game so he removed this removed that. He didn't foresee about armour, or he would have mentioned that no army was to be used as well.

Personally I don't think you did anything wrong and will be interesting to hear your Opponents point of view. You have seemed to oblige him in "nerfing down your army" and not bring a power list.

Also you are playing CSM. One of the worst codices out there. (compared to there) and he had the 2 newest codices out there. So he had the advantage. He just didn't know how to use that advantage and if your story is true, he just had a tantrum and crying that you are not playing his way. His ay, he wins, you loose. Rolling in the beginning of the game and getting a 5 and he quits? Something is missing here. A grown man, or even a teenager shouldn't be just rage quitting over a successful roll. What if you failed that roll? Then all is good?

I hate to see this guy play Monopoly or go to a Casino if the story is true. This person has issues. He is a sore sport, sore loser, and then to go onto say "you ruined my weekend" means a person who can't take responsibility for his own actions.

If you show up with no way to kill armor, it's like french frying when you're supposed to pizza.

You're gonna have a bad time.

I mean, the OPs list was a little beardy given him telling the other guy that he was going to have "some armor" and showed up with like 2/3rds of the point allocation as armor. But really, he was playing Chaos. And who uses Space Wolves without Long Fangs? lol

Wonder if we'll get a response from your opponent...

 CShaffer wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Since when did Khorne lists become WAAC?
Your opponent should have brought something to punch through armour. You always need to have something that can deal with armour.

Best response lol.

This. Even if you had only brought "some armour", his list wasn't going to cut it - not that the amount of armour that you did bring was all that extensive anyway. The Knight would have been enough to kill a fair few of your tougher models.

Lol

On occasion I can be a whiny loser, but it's never directed at anyone except myself. If I make a stupid mistake and I know it'll cost men the fame I get frustrated but as said above, we play to be fun nerds in the first place. This guy seems right out of hand.

I once brought my venom spam to a game against an opponent . He brought av13 necron spam. Wrecked me. Even then I made the most of it and realized I needed to really tweak my list.

From the sound of it, you gave your opponent as much as you could, did everything as sportingly as possible and were more than fair. Honestly, you've got nothing to worry about.

Your opponent is TFG for crying about a list from one of the weakest books out there that didn't even spam the good units from that book. If I took my space wolves army and added some GK, you might beat me 1 game out of 100 with that list you took. Your opponent needs to learn how to list build, then learn how to play and quit being such a cry baby.

 Blacksails wrote:
A list is not what makes someone WAAC TFG.

The overuse of both those terms gets tiring. People who are poor sports, who actively seek to harm the enjoyment of others knowingly, and general douchebaggery unrelated to the contents of your army list are what defines someone as a WAAC player or TFG.

I won't even get into how your list was pretty fething far from optimized. Your opponent just straight up sucks. Sounds like he was looking for an easy win, not a fun game.

This sums it up pretty nicely.

1) list doesn't make you TFG, an attitude does. From this we can draw a conclusion (a bit streamlined I suppose) that if one asks if he's TFG, he isn't.
So the obvious answer to your question is 'no'.

2) it doesn't represent a good sportsmanship to quit a game like that. No matter the enemy list, or yours, if you quit on the first turn it's disrespectful as the preparations have already taken a lot of time and quitting means it was all wasted.
It's even worst if he quits just because of bad luck.

I don't wish to make anyone the bad guy here. Just pointing out that sometimes sportsmanship isn't found where it should be and if that makes a game unpleasant to a player, it's truly a shame.
Avoiding such occasion should be done if possible.

He had anti-armor of a sort... with a Knight and two dreadknights that should be able to deliver enough mobile firepower to take down the most annoying of your list. Mind you I am not too familiar with forgeworld rules.

It sounds like he was having a crappy day.

Your opponent is a low level strategist with no foresight, who was not capable of having a friendly game due to his attitude. Some people are so far indenial it's amazing, they just cannot accept that the fault could POSSIBLY lie with them.

Rock up to a game with zero AT - lose to some of the crappiest walkers in the game - what do we learn from this? Khorne lists must be OP! My damn opponent has ruinedmy weekend with his WAAC OP list! There is no other explanation for my loss today

Melee is hardly a viable way for the SW/GK to take out vehicles and he kind of a tried to do it and failed.Specialy not of the LoW kind. On chaos turn he would get counter charged by the whole chaos army, before eating shoting from it at close range. I kind of a understand why he quit.


The problem here is that you were talking about orks and gave the false impression that your going to play them. I don't know about the GK/SW player model collection, but if his only ways to take out vehicles are a few melee weapons and 1 LoW and he fails to counter your bigger hitters turn 1, he does kind of a end up with a wasted weekend. No one wants to play a game you know you will lose.

I think the best part of this is the that the final straw so to speak was passing a 5++ on turn 1.

No, he told his opponent he would be bringing Khorne, and tanks. His opponent just choose to disregard this and rely on a single a Thunder a Hammer and power fist for his dedicated AT. Lol.

If the only models the guy owns in a 2k collection of GK and SM are anti infantry, he fethed up. Nothing else to it. And if that's the case he should inform his opponents. Or play smaller size games and work on building a somewhat balanced less cheesy force.

That all being said, nobody forced him to take the game, if he was that upset about facing that many tanks he could have said it before he sat down. If he's that upset about wasting time, he could have left. Instead, he played it out, and as soon as it clicked to him that he was going to lose he then decided to ragequit and be a rude jerk about it because he lost.

If nothing else, he should have played to the bitter end, and used that to work out what his list lacked.
That way, if he got you to bring the same list next time, he'd have more chance to beat you, not complain about his weekend.
I have never conceded a game, and always played to the end. My opponent has done before, so maybe it's me.

I always find answering questions like these really tricky, as your perception of what happened will inevitably be in your favour. Perhaps you stressed 'some armour' a lot (or said something similar but stronger). Perhaps he said he'd only bring a couple of AA weapons (in the literal sense) and hoped you'd take the hint. Perhaps he mentioned another time he'd bring almost no anti-armour, which you forgot about. Maybe your offer for reinforcements was accidentally mistaken for sarcasm, leading to the guy feeling insulted.

Long story short, there's a lot of things that could have happened that would make me agree with your opponent, while you would be completely unaware that they happened. Now, I'm not accusing you of any of these things, I'm just saying it could have been. It's just that, if your story were to be the absolute truth, there would have been absolutely no reason to act so irrationally. Since he did, I can only assume that something happened that pissed him off. Most likely, this was something you had nothing to do with, let alone intended to do, but nevertheless your opponent had some cause to think he was right and you were wrong.

I'd let your opponent read this and ask him if he experienced any part of it differently. If what you say is the truth, then he is just a bad sport you shouldn't play against any more, but it seems more likely to me that somewhere along the way there has been some misunderstanding that caused him to react so angrily to your list and then the game itself.

There is casual list building and then there is not knowing what the hell you are doing list building.... your opponent suffered from the latter.

Besides on turn 1 expecting to knock out vehicle"s" with a single shot - that's pretty damn optimistic. I'm surprised someone entering a battle with that much confidence suddenly rage quit.

No, he told his opponent he would be bringing Khorne, and tanks. His opponent just choose to disregard this and rely on a single a Thunder a Hammer and power fist for his dedicated AT. Lol.

If someone said to me he is going to bring a khorn list with tanks. I would never imagine ton of walkers and FW units. Zerker, rhinos , khorn lord and bikers yes. But not 50% of the list in AV units.

Besides on turn 1 expecting to knock out vehicle"s" with a single shot - that's pretty damn optimistic. I'm surprised someone entering a battle with that much confidence suddenly rage quit.

Well I can imagine that the tanks he would be facing would be rhinos, as when one thinks of khorn lists is tide lists and not AV spam with demon summoning.

If the only models the guy owns in a 2k collection of GK and SM are anti infantry, he fethed up. Nothing else to it. And if that's the case he should inform his opponents. Or play smaller size games and work on building a somewhat balanced less cheesy force.

he probably does. but he was told this is suppose to be a casual game against a khorn list. So the drop pod grav cent star stayed at home, as did the obligatory flyer transports for the mini GH squads.

That all being said, nobody forced him to take the game, if he was that upset about facing that many tanks he could have said it before he sat down

well his only way to win was to get turn 1, destroy the LoW, defiler and vindicator turn one and then play a normal game. And get his reservs from the formation. He did get turn 1, but failed in all the other ,which cost him a game. Now I know it maybe fun for the chaos player to beat up his opponent. But when you lost and you know you feel cheated by your opponent in what kind of a game you were suppose to play , the weekend is done. And sarcasm when your opponent has to do 3 things turn 1, helps little to make the game fun. And he was a "jerk" not because he lost,But because he wasted a gaming weekend weekend. Worse of it the chaos player seemed to have friends in the shop, so he could play more, while the marine player had the only option of driving home aka more wasted time and money.