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Hi there, here is my list, please critique and let me know what you guys think. It doesn't look amazing at first but it's flexibility is pretty outstanding if I'm understanding the new rules correctly. I'll post an in depth tactics below this in a moment. The Chapter name is still kind of up in the air. I'm thinking Forge Masters,

I call this list Melta Mulisha

Chapter Tactics - "Salamanders"

HQ

Vulkan He'stan
[190]

Troops

Tactical Squad x10 Marines
Plasma Pistol on Sgt
Melta Bombs on Sgt
Meltagun
Multi-Melta
(180) X6 Squads

[1080]

Fast Attack

Assault Squad x5 Marines trading jump packs for Rhino
Flamer x2
Melta Bombs on Sgt
Plasma Pistol on Sgt (115) X2 Squads

[230]

Total [1500]



Automatically Appended Next Post:
So basically the idea is to just overwhelm with the 8 Rhinos. The HQ will ride with one of the two Assault Squads. All 6 Tactical squads are identical and will all combat squad. This way the Multi-Melta will be with the 4 other bolter marines in one combat squad, and the Plasma Pistol and Meltagun will be in the second combat squad. I know a lot of people will say I should have taken the Combi-Melta on the Sgt, but I feel that the plasma pistol is more valuable in this scenario due to the following; He can use the plasma pistol and the bolt pistol at all times due to the "Gunslinger" rule, so this is just another shot that can come from the Rhino's two fire points. Also if he gets into CC (hopefully not) he'll get an extra attack for two CC weapons. To recap, the Sgt can fire both his pistols and the Meltagun will fire too, so i'm actually getting three shots from the rhino. Furthermore, as EVERY (CHARACTER) model in my army gets to "Master-Craft" one of his weapons (i got some ideas about a master crafted power weapon but decided to see how fun it would be to field 71 Marines in 8 Rhinos ), so naturally I'd "Master-Craft" the plasma pistol, as this allows you to re-roll if missed, and will negate "gets hot!" unless you roll double ones. I find this will be a bit more valuable than a master-crafted combi-melta, as the melta part would've been rerolling anyway. Plus I get to model something other than a bolt/Melta weapon in my army, lol. I'm coming with 71 marines, 4 flamers, 6 Multi-meltas, 6 Meltas, and 8 Plasma Pistols, plus my HQ's re-rolling heavy flamer, and 8 Rhinos. I was worried about AA, but everything in my army other than the bolt guns is master crafted so I get to try to roll 6's twice on every snapshot. Finally I can camp the multi-melta combat squads in the rhinos, or even just the rhinos themselves (they do count as scoring for the tac squads right?) on objectives.

I like the list. It seems like its going to be very good in Maelstrom. I would be most interested to hear how it goes.

I can't wait to try it out. Now I just have to go purchase 71 marines and 8 rhinos. LOL. To EBAY! I didn't realize how beneficial those re-rolls for meltas would be until I went down the list of scenarios i'd find myself in and realized how often i'll be taking snapshots. It has a lot of other possibilities too. I'm thinking of Landspeeders with dual multi-metlas as a possibility. I'd have to take 3 to get enough utility out of them as I believe they'd get saturated with fire due to having all armor, but target saturation may not be a problem if they kill the speeders they have 6-7 rhinos in their face.

I would suggest dropping the the plasma pistols. Why? That's enough points for a TFC. Or even a dread.

Though I'd agree on the modeling part.

While I do tend to agree with you I find myself wanting to keep them for the gunslinger and dual CC weapons. Not to mention any one thing outside of the rhinos is going to get raped first turn without some serious boxing by the rhinos...hrmm, maybe that could work, pill box them around a TFC in the back or a dread. I'd almost rather take a Vindy then though. Decisions decisions, a Vindy would fit the theme of all mech too. I've been considering sticking Vulkan in a Drop Pod as well with the Assault Squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So it occurs to me that Psykers and Avatars are going to be a little bit of a problem with this list. Especially the Avatar, being immune to flamers and meltas (enter plasma pistols), not so much the psykers now that I think about it. Everything will be in rhinos for a bit so he may not have a lot to target with it since psychic powers cannot target units in vehicles. Buffing his own troops however could be nullified with deny the witch but I won't have it without a psyker...Plus a Psyker Model would be cool. I could stick him with the second assault squad for a little more symmetry. I really wanna play it as is first though and see how it performs.

I looked too, apparently a single rhino troop transport is enough to contest or hold an objective. Yummy! I'll have 6 of them bought for "Troops" selections, plus 12 combat squads. It sounds so mean when you write it out, haha.

This list is nice cause its simple yet elegant. It maximises the CT and brings a ton of boxed bodies. I reckon stick with the mass of Rhinos, if dropping plasma pistols to get more stuff just get another assault squad + Rhino. With so many Rhinos, in maelstrom you will be able to camp objectives so you wont need to be moving much/snap firing. Maybe even put the mm guy with the meltagun guy to shoot from hatch? Combat squads will really help deliver bolter fire while protecting your melta guys. Things like riptides you should be able to tie up in CC.

Don't have a single pod with Vulcan in it. Protect Vulcan as much as you can. He's incredibly susceptible to instant death. I've had him die so many times to S8 things. I really wish he had Eternal Warrior. 2+/3++ is amazing, but one die is all it takes to kill him. :(

As durable as he looks on paper, people will kill him for easy warlord if they have anything with S8 and mobility. Obviously, you try to slaughter anything with 3+ sv or worse, but playing him aggressively is super scary. The better players will take advantage of the free secondary.

Edit:
So many Vulcan nightmares, but here are my top 2.

First one, I podded in Vulcan and when I looked across the way there was a Chapter Master with Bike, Thunderhammer, and the Shield Eternal. With 12" movement, it's almost impossible to deepstrike in and not be in range of a biker list. Anyway, 2 TL bolters from the bike shoot before he assaulted, Both hit, both wound, I failed both 2+ svs. Hammer of Wrath impact, auto hit, 1 wound, I failed the last 2+ save. T4 didn't play into effect but I cried.

Second Vulcan highlight. I deepstrike in with Vulcan + 9 sternguard (I don't run 9man stern anymore, not worth the lack of shots if you Combat Squaded them). Vulcan tanked all the fire power and survived their turn of shooting. They move forward and declare an assault on my Turn2. All bolter overwatched missed, 1 melta hit. 1 melta wounded. I failed the lookoutsir, I failed the 3++, Vulcan died. First Blood and Warlord. I shook his hand and smile. "Good game buddy".

I can't really drop the plasmas as they make the tactical squads about 1/3 less killy. If I drop them they need to be replaced with Combi-grav/melta which is 5 pts cheaper anyway. If I did Combi-melta i'd probably master-craft the sgt's chainsword then so I could re-roll one miss if I get charged as I already get the reroll for melta weapons anyway. Grav would give me a little more flexibility and 5 extra points to spare for other stuff like dozer blades for those dangerous terrain tests i'll be making when moving flat out.

Thanks for the headsup saythings. I was worried about this myself. I agree it's kinda annoying he has no eternal warrior, but it's just silly not to take him in a Salamander's chapter tactics list. His buffs are incredible. I'm a little worried about Psykers, and considering tossing a Librarian in with Level 2, or possibly even an AM Psyker or something just for the Deny the Witch if nothing else. LOL, Sorry for your losses of Vulcan man. I plan to have him surrounded by a sea of marines if possible, psykers will have a big juicy target though.

I've been watching some battle reps and having lots of mobility and objective grabbers seems to be very important, and with 18 i'll be pretty scary to deal with for grabbing objectives.


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I planned on shooting the meltagun and PP through the hatch, unless the target is over 12", then the MM. You don't want an assault weapon who needs to move to get into range with the heavy weapon. if I sit still I'll shoot the MM, if I move and I don't think I have range i'll snap shot the MM instead, if I sit still and they're within 12" then the PP and the meltagun will be in range, the only scenario where it's better is the last one, and really only if it's a vehicle. Where the MM would give me better armor pen, and only if it's within the 12" range. In my current setup the PP and meltagun complement each other well as they're both 12" range, as well as the bolt pistol the Sgt will be firing every turn too due to gunslinger.

Hey I may be being dense but looking at the points it seems incorrect. You have tactical squads with all those upgrades for 180 points. But where are the 6 tactical rhinos coming in?

 scommy wrote:
Hey I may be being dense but looking at the points it seems incorrect. You have tactical squads with all those upgrades for 180 points. But where are the 6 tactical rhinos coming in?

Yup yup. At listed points, none of your Tac Squads has a Rhino - with the Rhino, they should be 215 pts.

Alright, i'm hammering a new one out and taking into account some things i've learned, I'll update in a bit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Revised, wish I could fit more marines, but this is the best I could come up with with He'stan at the helm and I really think it would be competitive at 1500.
Vulkan He'stan [190]

Tactical Squad x10 Marines
Combi-Grav on Sgt
Melta Bombs on Sgt
Meltagun
Multi-Melta
Rhino
(210) X 5 Squads

[1050]

Assault Squad x5 Marines trading jump packs for Rhino
Flamer x2
Melta Bombs on Sgt
Plasma Pistol on Sgt
Dozer Blades
Extra Armor
(130)X2 Squads

[260]

Total [1500]

Let m get this straight. The plasma pistol does not replace the bolt pistol upon upgrading?

Does this mean all my Aspiring champions can take plasma pistol and bolt pistol? And gain the gunslinger rule?

Omg i think i found a use for my chosen squad now! They will all be mini Cyphers wannabes!

My Champions of chaos do not have to worry about power weapons anymore. They can have a single str7 ap2 attack at i4 during a challenge! Wait does pp have 1 shot or 2?

 Filch wrote:
Let m get this straight. The plasma pistol does not replace the bolt pistol upon upgrading?

Does this mean all my Aspiring champions can take plasma pistol and bolt pistol? And gain the gunslinger rule?

Omg i think i found a use for my chosen squad now! They will all be mini Cyphers wannabes!

My Champions of chaos do not have to worry about power weapons anymore. They can have a single str7 ap2 attack at i4 during a challenge! Wait does pp have 1 shot or 2?

I WANT THIS TO BE TRUE SO BAD

So we are clear if you take a combi melta, the whole thing is master crafted. Not just the melta, the bolter rounds too, if Vulcan is on the table, or its on a character. It sounded like you thought just the melta part was.
Yes, this does include the ammo variations when you give all your sternguard combi meltas. But keep in mind its master crafted so you roll all of the guns individually. (important at half range for double tap)

Also master-crafted means ONE reroll per turn so salvo weapons like the combi-grav will only get to reroll one miss to hit. It's going to be disgusting when someone charges my HQ and gets a Master-Crafted combi-melta to the face. Lol. And yes, I thought the gunslinger thing was pretty cool too. Especially to just get one more bolter shot from the rhino fire points every turn. It didn't mention anything anywhere I read about not master-crafting a combi weapon so why not.

“Pistols as Close Combat Weapons
A pistol can be used as a close combat weapon. If this is done, use the profile given above – the Strength, AP and special rules of the pistol’s shooting profile are ignored.”

Firsty since no one has mentioned it yet, do list individual cost upgrades. Two reasons, first we all should have access to them anyway if we comment on cost and second and more important it is against forum policy which keeps GW from shutting the forum down.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Filch wrote:
Let m get this straight. The plasma pistol does not replace the bolt pistol upon upgrading?

Does this mean all my Aspiring champions can take plasma pistol and bolt pistol? And gain the gunslinger rule?

Omg i think i found a use for my chosen squad now! They will all be mini Cyphers wannabes!

My Champions of chaos do not have to worry about power weapons anymore. They can have a single str7 ap2 attack at i4 during a challenge! Wait does pp have 1 shot or 2?

First When using pistols in close combat all of the them (plasma,grav, shrukein, etc) are treated as S:user AP:-. Cypher has a special rule that makes him awesome with pistols.

Depends on the unit entry some can replace bolter or pistol or chainsword Some don't. Tactical Sarges can now (good find) but ASM Sarges can't for example.

Edited, sorry.

barnowl wrote:
Firsty since no one has mentioned it yet, do list individual cost upgrades. Two reasons, first we all should have access to them anyway if we comment on cost and second and more important it is against forum policy which keeps GW from shutting the forum down.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Filch wrote:
Let m get this straight. The plasma pistol does not replace the bolt pistol upon upgrading?

Does this mean all my Aspiring champions can take plasma pistol and bolt pistol? And gain the gunslinger rule?

Omg i think i found a use for my chosen squad now! They will all be mini Cyphers wannabes!

My Champions of chaos do not have to worry about power weapons anymore. They can have a single str7 ap2 attack at i4 during a challenge! Wait does pp have 1 shot or 2?

First When using pistols in close combat all of the them (plasma,grav, shrukein, etc) are treated as S:user AP:-. Cypher has a special rule that makes him awesome with pistols.

Depends on the unit entry some can replace bolter or pistol or chainsword Some don't. Tactical Sarges can now (good find) but ASM Sarges can't for example.

I double checked the codex. Chosen must replace bolt pistol for plasma pistol. So i cant do it. Also a pp in ccw does not give a s7 ap2 like you said so pp for chaos is useless.

I looked at the aspiring champ and it does say replace 1 weapon for pp. So i can have pp and bp by replacing ccw but its worthless as i get no mastercrafted or cypher attack. Once Asp Champ is worthless.