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Hey everyone, thinking of making a semi-competitive Marines army using the Salamanders chapter tactics.

It's a pretty cookie cutter drop pod list, what I am mostly wondering about is how important anti-air would really be in a list like this with all the twin linked melta (and ignore cover melta from LotD) floating around.

HQ
Vulkan He'Stan
Master of the Forge

Troops
5 Tac Marines w/ MeltaGun, Combi-Melta + Pod
5 Tac Marines w/ MeltaGun, Combi-Melta + Pod
5 Tac Marines w/ MeltaGun, Combi-Melta + Pod
5 Tac Marines w/ MeltaGun, Combi-Melta + Pod

Elite
5 Sternguard Veterans w/ 5 Combi-Meltas, Melta Bombs + Pod
5 Legion of the Damned w/ MeltaGun, Multi Melta, Combi-Melta
5 Legion of the Damned w/ MeltaGun, Multi Melta, Combi-Melta

Fast Attack
5 Assault Marines w/ 2 Flamers + Pod
5 Assault Marines w/ 2 Flamers + Pod

Heavy Support
Ironclad Dread w/ MeltaGun, Heavy Flamer + Pod
Ironclad Dread w/ MeltaGun, Heavy Flamer + Pod

Comes out to 1850 on the nose. I figure Vulkan and the Master of the Forge can jump in with anyone really, most likely the sternguard or one/ either of the assault squads.
9 Pods total is 5 out on turn 1 with backup from the LotD and the other pods.

Any and all comments and changes are welcome as I haven't bought any models for this army yet.

Thanks!

Edit: got rid of the melta bombs from each tac squad and added another 2 combis to the sterns for the full 5

Here's mine for reference. Both drop pod version or rhino version can be devastating. Vulkan rides with one of the 3 Flamer Assault Squads. Combat squads are your friend with Sally's. They allow you to really make tactical squads valuable as they can split fire from opponents with a few big nasties and they can both grab objectives, as well as the Rhino or drop pod they ride in. Drop the meltabombs if you need more points. If a Krak grenade won't do it use "Our weapons are useless" and run away, then melta him in the face the next turn since marines auto regroup You're running a shooty army so you don't really want to get into CC. LotD are always a welcome site, but much more in the drop pod list than the rhino version. Cheers and hope you do well with it.
HQ

Vulkan He'stan
[190]

Troops

Tactical Squad x10 Marines (140)
Combi-Melta on Sgt (10)
Meltagun (10)
Multi-Melta (10)
Rhino or Drop Pod(35)
(205) X5 Squads

[1025]

Fast Attack

Assault Squad x5 Marines trading jump packs for Rhino (85)
Flamer x2 (10)
(95) X3 Squads

[285]

Total [1500]

Ha great thanks man! Definitely going for the pod approach, I love the mechanic and the fact that it is marine exclusive is pretty cool.

I agree about the meltabombs somewhat, with them I can at least theaten mc's a tiny bit or at least charge and get that last hull point off of something.
Not sure what I would use the extra 25 points for.

What do you find your biggest weakness is with the list? I could see really fast or shooty armies being able to with stand part of the alpha strike and then just kite the guys that have already dropped.

Any tactical advice?

I would try to get the legion as an allied detachment so they have ignores cover, but then that's just me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can't say enough good things about ignores cover twin linked melta

Why wouldn't they get ignores cover in the list I have now?

Thedecay wrote:
Why wouldn't they get ignores cover in the list I have now?

They do. Codex: Space Marines or Codex: Legion of the Damned, LotD models have Flaming Projectiles - no need to Allied Detachment them.

Okay lol that's what I thought. I figured they could be a somewhat decent anti air/bike/serpent counter, anything with jink really

Yea, people underestimate the necessity to KILL those LotD when they land in their face and they pay for it. It is one of the most efficient units in the game as far as utility goes. They can swamp stuff in CC, Destroy tanks, all while continuing to march forward like zombies! If you give him a Multi-Melta they get the reroll for He'Stan as well as long as they're taken as an elite's choice and not in a seperate detachment since it's not a Chapter Tactic. The Flamers don't get the re-roll though.

As far as a weakness, really I'm not scared of a whole lot with this list. It's very versatile and has some built in cushion. A shooty nids army might give it some trouble as they have just so many different targets to hit, but the flamers would help tremendously with swarm. The list really plays itself. If you need a sledgehammer, you pile all the stuff together in a table corner, if you need a gunline you park your tanks in front of half the infantry, move on your turn, and drop the other half in the enemies face. Combat squads and the rerolling meltas are really what makes this list competitive. You have to use your tactical squads well though. Bad rolls could lose against anything but you're probably going to have some problems with big Psyker turns. Stay out of CC as much as possible. You're playing a shooty army, don't engage unless it's very likely you'll win in one turn and get to consolidate. Templates are scary vs this list as you're going to be grouped together a lot in Drop pods and exiting rhinos, so look out for what your opponent can do to cause you irreversible game losing injury with and eliminate it before he can get utility out of it. Like heldrake's for example. Spread out and give him low value targets with Combat squads, then take it down with snap firing, rerolling meltas.

Large Mechanized lists are going to do massive damage first turn if they get to go first against the rhino version (Think Imperial guard with lots of pie plates). With the drop pods it's not as much of a problem if you roll correctly but it's still going to be all about the scatter. If you get sick of scattering off target you could take a detachment of scout bikes with a locator beacon for 64 points. Then you can drop your pods with pinpoint accuracy if they stay alive. You can add locator beacons to the ones you know are coming turn one and then the others will be able to come in as reinforcements. Opponents often don't see this coming even if you read off your whole list to them. They over-engage the first pod and the second one comes in and hammers them.

The Jink thing really comes into play with flamers and Sallies. Remember, not only are you auto hitting and ignoring cover (aka Jink), you're re-rolling against that toughness five to wound. Nom nom nom expensive bikes. And all for the cost of a 105pt assault squad.

Awesome.

I figured the huge burst damage potential of the list off-sets its weakness in utilizing almost exclusively Tac Squads, but had the same thoughts as you. If I can alpha their blast/template/high threat targets or at least neutralize a good number of them, my enemy should always be fighting an uphill battle while my reinforcements keep coming in and neutering their forces.

I added the Dreads for some more horde removal as well as tar pit potential with the AV13, I feel like having two of them will be really fun.

Interesting point about the homers, maybe that's what I can swap in for the Melta Bombs points.

Thanks!

No problem man. I live for this stuff. Wish there were more people here where I live. I'm painting my army now.

Shameless bump but I think if I drop the 4 melta bombs off the tac squads it would be worth it to add another combi melta to the stern guards, bringing the total to 4, and one to the Master of the Forge, that way he can jump in with any squad and shoot the combi plus his plasma pistol if he's in range

Yea, I was going to say if you take sternguard you should maximize the combi's to make them worth it. Just a thought, but I really think the MotF is a waste of points. He seems like a good idea, but if he's sitting in the vehicle you're not using his harness, and that blessing of the omnissiah is great in theory but it's only good to fix things, and replaces his shooting. So you're going to give him another weapon he may not be shooting if he's repairing a vehicle. Not to mention if it explodes he can't do anything to fix it. It's just way to specific a scenario where he'll get his points back, and I feel it's not worth it. Buy A TFC in a Drop Pod and he'll get his points back before the MotF will. Or even a level 2 Psyker, naked...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yea, don't forget, it's not a homer, it's a locator beacon. BIIIG difference. One let's you keep everything from scattering and the other ONLY terminators...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Epartalis Thanks! I will be taking these a lot more now that I realize that flaming projectiles affects ALL ranged attacks the LOTD make. Why would you ever take a flamer anymore with a LotD squad?

The master of the forge is basically a tax on my list to have the sternguard, 2 legion squads, and then move the two dreads from elite to heavy.
I feel like he isnt bad though even if hes not repairing. He has a twin linked plasma pistol and a heavy flamer (which will be rerolling wounds) and can fire both in a turn, as well as 2 power fists for extra attacks in close combat with a 2+ save. Pretty decent for 90 points if you ask me.

Is he better than an assault squad with two flamers and a drop pod? Because they're nearly the same price. I agree, he's not bad on paper, but he will always hit last, which means he's probably not hitting back, and he has an effective 12" shooting range, and that's only if he's not in a vehicle, and not repairing. Compare that to a drop pod squad of 5 marines with two flamers and I think you begin to see my point. If you want to keep him because you feel you need both dreadnoughts awesome, but i'd lose him and move my choices around a bit or replace him with a level 2 psyker which will probably be more influential overall even when naked and he'll help your deny the witch rolls. I'm not a huge fan of dreadnoughts myself but if that's your bag go for it man. Just trying to give you some more feedback. At 1850pts i'd be curious to see how many marines you could fit in. 90 marines would be awesome, lol. Just max out tac squads and sternguard and assault squads and put them all in drop pods, lol. So fun. Now i've got to point it up and see how many I could fit into 1850.

I guess dropping him and the dreads frees 450 points... I definitely want all pods though because having a tiny little squad in my deployment zone when I'm going second pretty much guarantees first blood. I really like the idea of land speeder storms with multi meltas. Maybe I can grab one or two of those to deepstrike in off of a homer. I'm also interested in the stormtalon lol. I'll post up another list in a few.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I could drop both dreads and the motf for a level 2 Libby, another tac squad in pod with a combi and a melta, a scout squad in a multi Melta speeder, and a stormtalon for 450.

So right away i get another 4 obsec units.
What I seem to gain from the speeder is a little more utility than a pod, but I also lose a 5th pod on turn 1 as I'm now at 8 in the army.

On the other hand, the stormtalon with skyhammer missiles can support almost any squad that needs it as well as providing a bit more reliable anti air.

Good trade off for the dreads?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HQ (280)
Vulkan He'Stan
190

Librarian w/ Mastery Level 2
90

Troops (735)
5 Tac Marines w/ MeltaGun, Combi-Melta + Pod
125

5 Tac Marines w/ MeltaGun, Combi-Melta + Pod
125

5 Tac Marines w/ MeltaGun, Combi-Melta + Pod
125

5 Tac Marines w/ MeltaGun, Combi-Melta + Pod
125

5 Tac Marines w/ MeltaGun, Combi-Melta + Pod
125

5 Scouts + Landspeeder Storm w/ Multi Melta
110

Elite (520)
5 Sternguard Veterans w/ 4 Combi-Meltas, Melta Bombs + Pod w/ Locator Beacon
210

5 Legion of the Damned w/ MeltaGun, Multi Melta, Combi-Melta
155

5 Legion of the Damned w/ MeltaGun, Multi Melta, Combi-Melta
155

Fast Attack (315)
5 Assault Marines w/ 2 Flamers + Pod
95

5 Assault Marines w/ 2 Flamers + Pod
95

Stormtalon w/ Skyhammer Missiles
125

That's a good MSU-style army.

What's the Librarian doing?

Honestly not too sure... He'd be rolling with vulkan but I don't really want to be in combat that bad. I was just thinking that if I dropped the Libby and an assault squad I can beef up the sternguards to 7 all with combis and get another stormtalon. That still leaves me with 4 pods turn one, 12 obsec units, and some great air support

Working on a reply now, hang on.

HQ
Vulkan He'Stan
190

Troops (1230)
10 Tac Marines w/ MeltaGun, Combi-Melta, Multi-Melta + Pod
205 X 6

Fast Attack (275)

“Dragon Pattern” Landspeeder w/ Multi-Melta, Multi-Melta
80 X 2 (160)

5 Assault Marines w/ 2 Flamers, Sgt w/(master crafted)Grav Pistol & Melta Bombs + Pod
(115)

Elite

5 Legion of the Damned w/ MeltaGun, Multi Melta, Combi-Melta
(155)

1850

REALLY fun list. Those landspeeders are vehicle poppers if ever i've seen one. Rerolling twin multimelta goodness ftw. Then you got 12 objective secured units, a pod to drop vulkan in with the assault marines, and the legion of the damned as an X factor. You should have no problems with Flyers with that many rerolling meltas, and if you combat squad you can choose 14 different vehicles to shoot at each turn. So yea, this is my 1850 list .

I think the 10 man squads are kind of necessary just to combat squad for staying power with the MSU. I think this is pretty much the final one I'll go with, just really want to try out the raven lol

HQ (190)
Vulkan He'Stan
190

Troops (945)
10 Tac Marines w/ MeltaGun, Multi Melta, Combi-Melta + Pod
205

10 Tac Marines w/ MeltaGun, Multi Melta, Combi-Melta + Pod
205

10 Tac Marines w/ MeltaGun, Multi Melta, Combi-Melta + Pod
205

10 Tac Marines w/ MeltaGun, Multi Melta, Combi-Melta + Pod
205

5 Tac Marines w/ MeltaGun, Combi-Melta + Pod
125

Elite (495)
5 Sternguard Veterans w/
5 Combi-Meltas + Pod
205

5 Legion of the Damned w/ MeltaGun, Multi Melta
145

5 Legion of the Damned w/ MeltaGun, Multi Melta
145

Fast Attack (220)
5 Assault Squad w/ 2 Flamers + Pod
95

Stormtalon w/ Skyhammer Missiles
125

Agree completely, you pretty much have to Combat Squad for this to work methinks. Also, looking at this list, for the same 205 you get from a sternguard squad, you could get the tactical squads instead maxed at 10. With the tac squad versus combi-melta sternguard you get 2 less melta shots, albeit one at double range, and two objective secured units, and two seperate targets...Just a thought. I love the Legion of the damned though. Maybe even replace the sternguard with another squad of them and have Vulkan ride with the assault marines. Legion get COVER IGNORING re-rolling to hit Melta weapons with He'stan at your helm!

HQ (190)
Vulkan He'Stan
190

Troops (945)
10 Tac Marines w/ MeltaGun, Multi Melta, Combi-Melta + Pod
205

10 Tac Marines w/ MeltaGun, Multi Melta, Combi-Melta + Pod
205

10 Tac Marines w/ MeltaGun, Multi Melta, Combi-Melta + Pod
205

10 Tac Marines w/ MeltaGun, Multi Melta, Combi-Melta + Pod
205

5 Tac Marines w/ MeltaGun, Combi-Melta + Pod
125

Elite (495)
5 Sternguard Veterans w/
5 Combi-Meltas + Pod
205

5 Legion of the Damned w/ MeltaGun, Multi Melta
145

5 Legion of the Damned w/ MeltaGun, Multi Melta
145

Fast Attack (220)
5 Assault Squad w/ 2 Flamers + Pod
95

Stormtalon w/ Skyhammer Missiles
125

Wowzers thats alot of Melta. Would you consider switching up any of the Melta Tac squads to be Plasma or Anti-Inf at all? Say HB/Flamer and Combi-Flamer? Perhaps give you a bit of versatility?

With Salamanders it's usually either Meltas or Flamers, not much else is worth it. They both get to reroll, meltas reroll to hits, flamers reroll to wound. Plasmas can kill your marine, and only have the advantage of being able to rapid fire and fire a bit farther. If he did plasmas it would likely be on the Sgt with a combi-plasma, as then it will be master-crafted as the salamander's tactics allow any character model to master craft one weapon. This would help prevent problems with "Gets Hot!". Also, he has bolters to deal with troops, lots of them. If he combat squads all the meltas together he has a vehicle kill squad, and an infantry kill squad. He can also split the heavy weapon off so he can charge with the squad with melta and combi melta. Can't charge if you fire a heavy the same turn. Snap firing will be much more beneficial for meltas as well, with all the rerolling hitting on 6's gets a lot easier. Also, Melta's will kill any character that fails an invul outright if they don't have eternal warrior. Much more likely to get Slay the Warlord. Plasma's at S7 are going to give SM characters another turn to hit back.

I think sternguard are way too versatile with their special ammo to drop, the rapid fire 2+ poison is just so good against so much. Also, I'm not 100% sure but I think even if they aren't shooting the Melta part of their combi it's still twin linked. So 10 twin linked rapid fire shots wounding anything on 2s is amazing.

This also goes the same for the anti infantry, so many tac squads will be pumping out bolter rounds I feel like it should be okay. Depending on the opponent I can also drop Vulcan with the assault squad turn one for 3 huge template attacks as well as overwatch if they try to assault me next turn.

The storm raven can also crank out a decent amount of shots for infantry clean up if it doesn't have to hit any other flyers or light vehicles.

I like the Sternguard naked to be honest! I know that sounds crazy, but they become too expensive otherwise and you'd be better off just using tactical squads or LotD instead. If you just take a ten man squad and combat squad them their versatility is pretty neat. They can become two five man squads with ammo that can deal with damn near anything. Also, their bolters are not twin-linked. They're not characters. Only the Sgt.

Chaos Combi-bolters are twin-linked because they are pseudo-Storm bolters and don't have secondary weapon profiles.

Vulkans ability says he twin links combi bolters though

I get what you're saying. Yes, the Combi-meltas are twin-linked due to Vulkan, so when the bolter armament is fired with specialist rounds, they are twin-linked as well.

I have been playing Salamanders for close to 2 years and have recently switched to Ultramarines. Calgar is just too big of a force multiplier and can't be ignored in the current Codex.

I digress. This will come from playtesting and playstyle but I have never found the C-Melta and Melta on Legion to never be worth it. Yes, you get the TL meltas but you need to accurately deepstrike 6" from an enemy. Realistically, you need to have both the melta and the combi BOTH within 6" so you're probably on average 5" away from them. You can see where this gets dicey. Pun intended. xD Even with rerolls it's crazy risk. Try C-Grav, Plasma, that way you have a 12" threat with that squad overall. 18" Grav, 12-24" Plas and 12" Dbl pen with MM. Recently, with extra points, I've switched to 2 Grav-pistols for 2 shots every turn with the Sergeant, not just 3 shots (from the C-Grav) on the first volley. If he survives the 1st counter volley/assault, it's usually worth it.

Also, try not to get worked up with how many pods come down on turn 1. A lot of players think I need to kill, table, or completely dismantle the enemy on Turn 1 Alpha. I've run 5 pods for most of my SM career at 1850. I've found a lot more success playing the war of attrition with pods. Just wound a few models and possibly look for easy first blood. But wait til Turn2 when you can get reinforcements with Legion and set up for the charge (with the first turn pod tacticals). Adds a lot more strategy. Play safer and maybe only go all out with 1-2 pods to get first blood.

Play to the objectives, not the player. The fact that you have null deployment is devastating. Even if you pod mid table, the other player ALWAYS has to deploy as if you were going to pod aggressively. It's a huge tactical advantage. Sometimes they have to turtle up hard to avoid easy first blood or wounds on important models that they hurt their own mobility. Use that distance to your advantage and pod mid table. Now they have to clear mid field to get to your home field and then deal with the Legion and 2nd wave of pods/flyers. Nothing is safe Muahhahahaha.

Lastly, I like have at least 2 Sternguard without Combis to take intercept wounds. I try to have 3, but 2 seems to be a good minimum. Example: If I run 10 Sternguard in a pod, I have 4 Combis and Combat squad them. 3 redshirts for each squad to take wounds before I lose 33 points from a single Stern (with Combi).
My two cents.

I agree Saythings. Drop Pod alpha is a risky tactic on turn 1, which essentially forces redundancy to increase effectiveness. I would consider taking units with Locator Beacons, whether on Scout Bikes or an initial Drop Pod that can give you a null scatter zone. Especially when you risk scattering off the table or mishap to allow your opponent to place the pod.

Okay, I didn't realize the bolter portion was master-crafted too, for some reason I thought it was just the melta portion. That totally makes sternguard worth it with their special Ammo. Talk about a take all comers unit.