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Link to some Wonderfully Written Tactical Guides on Dark Eldar

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t11454-dark-eldar-guides

Links to "Freakshow Tactics" Armies built around leadership based warfare by JimSolo

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/645774.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/646292.page

Thought I would start a thread for Dark Eldar Tactics with the new codex.

So far some people have the codex and some people do not, and some people do not care and will never buy it, so here we are.

As usual some people say the sky has fallen in, and some people like the new options.

Lets look at whats different, starting with HQ-

Most of the special characters are gone. Baron, Kher, Malys, Duke, Vect. See ya, obviously they are now too busy with plots to go onto battlefields. GW broke a pattern here, normally only unit entries without models have been dropped for 7th codexes, Vect had a model, which was same era as Drazhar, but is currently MIA or POW, or just gone.

Special Characters that remain-

Lelith
Urien
Drazhar

Lets Begin.

HQ

Lelith-

Dropped in cost 25pts base.

Lost shardnet and impaler base.

Can purchase impaler, it is now reroll all 1s to wound in assault. Costs 15 pts.

Gained warlord trait 'blood dancer: +1WS to model if it is the warlord.

Attacks still ignore all armor

Dodge rule is the same as before

Gained rampage

Now attacks = 5 base, old = 4

League apart changed:
Old- gained bonus attacks based on WS difference between highest WS in target unit and Lelith's WS
New- Reroll all failed to hit and to wound rolls when in a challenge


Overall thoughts-

Against High WS models/units you now have more attacks if Rampage goes off, reroll all failed wounds and hits in a challenge is very good, especially given you have a good chance to end up with 7+d3[5+1 charge+1 for two ccwpn]+[d3 rampage] attacks on the charge, average 9 against any unit that outnumbers you regardless of target WS, netting more attacks than before.

Average 9 Attacks against T4 will see ~ 4 wounds on average that ignore saves after rerolls in a challenge if PfP is giving FC ~ 6 wounds on average in a challenge. Against T5 will see ~ 2.3 wounds average, if PfP is giving FC will see ~4 wounds in a challenge. Reminder that these attacks ignore all armor saves.

Urien

Dropped in cost by 50pts

Profile unchanged

With pain tokens gone no longer grants a pain token, now has haemonoculus ability that improves PfP level by 1 turn, normally it applies only to the unit a Haem is in, Uriens applies to all units within 12" not just his own. This means pfp 6+ turn 1, 5+ turn 2 for units within 12". There are other ways to augment this further in the codex.

Warlord trait- fixed, 'ancient evil' model and all friendly dark eldar units within 12" cause fear

Lost the ability to make grots uber grots
Lost mend the flesh
Lost father of Pain

gained 'It Will not Die!'

gained FnP 4+

Old ichor gauntlet- 3+ poisoned any unsaved wounds = ID
New Ichor injector- Fleshbane, lethal dose[wound rolls of 6 = ID]

Old Casket: 12" str=d6 ap=d6 assault 2d6 one shot
New Casket: 12" str=3 ap=3 assault 2d6 one shot

Old clone field: Negate d3 hits in assault
New clone field: 4++

Overall- In assault Urien lost the ability for every wound to be ID, but is now more likely to cause wounds, making him more threatening to non multiwound models, and slightly less threatening to non multiwound models. The casket is in some ways more useful now, you don't have to worry about the the chance of rolling a str 1 or 2 result, and don't have to worry about rolling an ap 4 ,5 ,6 making it overall slightly better at killing MEQs, as before you essentially had a 50/50 shot it was str 3 or less, and a 50/50 shot it was ap 3 or less, meaning the chance it was both was less than 50/50, which is where it is now given S 3 versus T 4, but at least you can predict the odds of something happening, and being able to make predictions about what you can do is more of a basis for competitiveness than before.

Urien is a force multiplier now with the extension of improving PfP for units within 12" whereas before he improved it only for d3 wrack/grot units


Drazhar

dropped in cost 40 pts

profile unchanged

wargear the same

Lost:
Darting strike
Riposte

Klaivex powers: 'muderous assault' and 'onslaught' gone

Master of blades:
Old- Incubi joined become fearless, drazhar gets klaivex powers listed above
New- Can only join incubi. While part of incubi unit, drazhar and all incubi in unit +1 WS

Gained-
Rampage
Muderous assault- gains additional attack for each to wound roll of 6 at same I step, these attacks do not generate further bonus attacks

Overall- still no access to grenades, or an inv save. Has the power to severely cripple anything he charges that is Toughness 5 or less, regardless of armor. Either possible 5+d3 str 5(6 with FC from PfP) ap 2 attacks, or 6+d3 str 4 (5 with FC from PfP) ap 3 attacks, with bonus attacks for to wound rolls of 6. With a unit of Incubi 3 incubi if they assault a unit that is not in cover, or even get assaulted by another unt, have the power to completely decimate said unit before they get to strike back due to large amount high initiative S4-5 ap 2/3 attacks. On the charge 3 incubi get 3x(4+d3) str3 ap 3 attacks or 3x(3+d3) str4 ap2 attacks at I 5 plus Drazhars attacks stated above, assuming no klaivex in squad, cost would be 250 for said unit.

Against a unit of TWC for example if you take the +1str ap2 option for all would see on average ~ 5.87 wounds that are AP 2 caused, if incubi have FC from PFP would be average ~ 8 wounds that ignore armor. if you take the AP 3 option for the extra attack but not the extra strength would see ~3.6 wounds on average without FC from PfP, and ~6.5 wounds with FC on the charge with ap3.

Results improve drastically against T4 and MEQ or TEQ.



Still weak against high toughness 6+ things due to needing to kill whats in assault and not being able to withstand a lot of attacks that ignore armor.

My first thoughts are that Dark Eldar have some really good vehicle hunting options now.

Scourge with Haywire blasters for dealing with Knights or Wave Serpents.

Reavers actually could be pretty good in this role as well. With Str 4 Rending and d6 Str 6 Rending caltrops for HoW, coupled with their speed, could make them quite good vehicle hunters. Throw in a Heat Lance and you have a fast threatening unit that can hunt vehicles and pound MSU infantry units.

Whats the math on Reavers going after a Knight Titan? Ignoring that Ion Shield and smashing it with loads of Rending HoW in it's back or side sounds like a decent possibility off the top of my head.

Might add in Heat Lance/Blaster shots as well if you can. Preferably you would move/shoot/and then charge if possible.

rollawaythestone wrote:
My first thoughts are that Dark Eldar have some really good vehicle hunting options now.

Scourge with Haywire blasters for dealing with Knights or Wave Serpents.

Reavers actually could be pretty good in this role as well. With Str 4 Rending and d6 Str 6 Rending caltrops for HoW, coupled with their speed, could make them quite good vehicle hunters. Throw in a Heat Lance and you have a fast threatening unit that can hunt vehicles and pound MSU infantry units.

Whats the math on Reavers going after a Knight Titan? Ignoring that Ion Shield and smashing it with loads of Rending HoW in it's back or side sounds like a decent possibility off the top of my head.

Aren't all CC hits against walkers resolved against the front?

assuming you could get rear armor somehow(you would have to set up and then have the knight not run away or turn to face you)
12 reavers with 4 clusters ~270 points
8 str4 HoW needing 6s
4d6 str6 How ~14 hits needing 4+
8+ hull points.

You could take 6 and get half the result...

I don't have my book on me, but i'm like 80% sure HoW is resolved against the side it hit against. But regular hits are against the front for Walkers. HoW is an exception.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's a question. Does Furious Charge modify a Reaver's Bladevane / Caltrops? I suppose not cause it's worded like a set modifier.

rollawaythestone wrote:

Here's a question. Does Furious Charge modify a Reaver's Bladevane / Caltrops? I suppose not cause it's worded like a set modifier.

static str 4 or 6

The Reavers are really durable too. 4+ Jink, 5+ armor, and very quickly will have FnP as well. Will get shredded by Wave Serpents, but are small and can attempt to hide.

rollawaythestone wrote:
The Reavers are really durable too. 4+ Jink, 5+ armor, and very quickly will have FnP as well. Will get shredded by Wave Serpents, but are small and can attempt to hide.

everything gets FNP at the same time, they are a little slower moving across the table than they use to be. :(

So serious question...is it worth collecting Dark Eldar now? I really have begun to get tired of my Nids always getting shredded by pretty much any army these days

Frozocrone wrote:
So serious question...is it worth collecting Dark Eldar now? I really have begun to get tired of my Nids always getting shredded by pretty much any army these days

I certainly wouldnt start the army now, so much BS junk. It also is a fairly expensive army to play, with a lot of it's best units in finecase or lots of cheap vehicles.

That said if you already play them, I wouldnt get too much doom and gloom. It sucks, but it has been done. Find a way to make it work or wait 4-5 years

WWP is insanely powerful. Expect to see eldar allies for no scatter wraithguard.

Beastmasters can take power swords. I could see 8 khymera and 4 beast masters with powerswords being a very scarry unit coming across the table.

Chronos and talos have fnp and can be ungraded to fnp 4+. That is a huge boost to survivability. They still maybe slow but they might be able to make it across the table.

Isn't there a Formation with them that gives them Scout? So that's kind of awesome.

Quick question as I don't have the dex yet, is blasterborn still a possible thing or is it dead?

Blasterborn is still a thing.

Khymera are only daemons now so although they cause fear they are reduced to a 5+ invlun, so hug that cover with your beast squad.

There's a formation of 5 Taloi that gives them scout, I would hate to be facing that when they outflank...especially since they start with FnP.

I would love to see the tantalus deepstruck in with a WWP.

The funniest combo that I can think of is deep striking a unit in on turn 2 or 3 that's outfitted with the relics and war gear that stack to cause -4 LD and psychic tests to peril on any double and hit with soul fright, fear etc and cause as many LD checks as possible. The one problem is that this doesn't work against ATSKNF...

 Barrywise wrote:
Blasterborn is still a thing.

Khymera are only daemons now so although they cause fear they are reduced to a 5+ invlun, so hug that cover with your beast squad.

There's a formation of 5 Taloi that gives them scout, I would hate to be facing that when they outflank...especially since they start with FnP.

I would love to see the tantalus deepstruck in with a WWP.

The funniest combo that I can think of is deep striking a unit in on turn 2 or 3 that's outfitted with the relics and war gear that stack to cause -4 LD and psychic tests to peril on any double and hit with soul fright, fear etc and cause as many LD checks as possible. The one problem is that this doesn't work against ATSKNF...

Archons can only take one relic each. Though a spiritseer might be nice to add for phychic shriek and the power that takes away fearless.

I am rapidly building some stuff to finish off my army and play with my buddy tomorrow and am stuck on the talos/cronos... I don't know which to build! Talos has the better statline, and could melee vehicles or other tough stuff, and is a bit shooty... Cronos gives 4+ fnp but the 6 inch range seems marginal... Help me out! Ha ha, I will be facing Orks almost all of the time with my buddy if that helps..

 flaming tadpole wrote:
Quick question as I don't have the dex yet, is blasterborn still a possible thing or is it dead?

certainly still a thing. Changes are you have to take 5 models min, but each is 1 point cheaper and no shard carbines.

Kind of lacking compared to scourges, or allied firedragons though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Metalhed2434 wrote:
I am rapidly building some stuff to finish off my army and play with my buddy tomorrow and am stuck on the talos/cronos... I don't know which to build! Talos has the better statline, and could melee vehicles or other tough stuff, and is a bit shooty... Cronos gives 4+ fnp but the 6 inch range seems marginal... Help me out! Ha ha, I will be facing Orks almost all of the time with my buddy if that helps..

Cronos are good in the massive 5 beast unit. You want 1 of them and 4 talos. so everyone has 4+ FNP

Thanks! also are cluster caltrops and heat lances still one for every 3 reavers?

 flaming tadpole wrote:
Thanks! also are cluster caltrops and heat lances still one for every 3 reavers?

Yes that is correct!

Thanks exergy! I am not sure when I will be able to afford 5 more... But you have a good point, I am going to want both eventually so I may as well go either way for the first.

 Barrywise wrote:


There's a formation of 5 Taloi that gives them scout, I would hate to be facing that when they outflank...especially since they start with FnP.

Or just march them foward. They cannot charge from outflanking, so either fire turn 1, get really close and fire + charge turn 2
compared to arrive turn 2 or 3, possibly on the wrong board edge, shoot, but possibly have no targets in range, and then charge turn 3-4 if there is anything in range

 Barrywise wrote:

I would love to see the tantalus deepstruck in with a WWP.

The tantalus can DS anyway, if you really want somethign DSed, the WWP can do it without a vehicle.

Frozocrone wrote:
So serious question...is it worth collecting Dark Eldar now? I really have begun to get tired of my Nids always getting shredded by pretty much any army these days

If you like the army and want it, if you are really thinking abou tit, the new book IS'NT AS BAD AS PEOPLE ARE SAYING!

There is alot of hate going around for stupid reason.

Also with the ability to take 9 fliers, or the Coven codex with amazing good walking unit/formations and dont forget WWP's!!!! No scatter DS is amazing.

With Scourges getting much better, Bikes are still very useful, just in a different way, can take Blasters/Heat lances with Rending HoW for cheaper.

The meta shifted, something that was a Must to take now have to compete with other things (this is a good thing) more favor to the armor and a lot more options.


Some Army options:

Full DS: DSing 90% your army, get some grots in an Imperial Bastion (placed in the corner of back field table) with Voidshields+Common relay for easy to get Reserves.
-this will also work with the Flying lists Ive seen being thought about. 9 Fliers with DS'ing Venom/raiders.

Coven list: Lots of Grots, Wracks in Venoms, many Talos (formations) 4+ FnP's good AT and AI, just lacks AA (Normal for DE)

Tac: 2-3 Raiders, 2-3 Venoms, 1-2 bike lists, 1-2 fliers, 2-3 units of Scourges, DSing Archon+court, some Shields with Splinter Rack.


The point is, there are many options and different ways to play now, No army will be Eldar good for the Tournament scene. We will never be Top tier, but we IMO gain alittle ground compare to Orc, Tau, GK and Nids.

Why not equip an Archon/Succubus with a WWP and attach it to a Scourge unit to make sure they get where they're going? Have to take an HQ anyway, and might as well use it to help make sure that certain vehicle dies. Maybe 4x Heat Lances instead of Haywire Blasters- perhaps a Blaster(Archon)/Blast pistol(Succubus) for an additional chance at a Pen?

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Why not equip an Archon/Succubus with a WWP and attach it to a Scourge unit to make sure they get where they're going? Have to take an HQ anyway, and might as well use it to help make sure that certain vehicle dies. Maybe 4x Heat Lances instead of Haywire Blasters- perhaps a Blaster(Archon)/Blast pistol(Succubus) for an additional chance at a Pen?

Scourge should be used for haywire. Turn one you need to apply pressure on tanks and they do it better then anything else in the book. Hide them from sight then jump out 12 and start stripping hull points.

Using an Archon with scourge is frankly a waste of it's potential. If your playing mono DE then consider what role you need more. If you need to threaten their backfield for more then a turn I would use him to bring a Sslyth or Grot bomb. I honestly prefer the Sslyth as they are 10 points less a piece and each have a shard carbine meaning they can drop a unit on arrival. If your after more anti tank, I would take blaster born.

If your considering CWE allies then I would say warp in fire dragons. Some people like wraith guard more, but FD are cheaper and lets be honest, both units will be dead the turn after. Dragons are much better at AT and have a much smaller footprint meaning they are harder to prevent from coming in. If you want to have a shot at distorting a MC, take the WG. Either way also consider a shadow council of Shadow seers, being able to psishriek a different target then you shoot leans me toward FD's again as they can hit a high AV target while the Archons helm + a few psishrieks will drop any MC's or high value infantry out there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On another note, I am thinking of fielding Barahoth +12 clawed fiends.

555pts for 40 T5 wounds.

On the assault they will poor out 72 S5 attacks plus barahoths 5 s4 ap3 attacks.

All with hit and run, should shred anything it looks at while being immune to tarpits!

Just got done playing the new DE with my Chaos and I will say that there vehicles have gotten weaker with the loss of the Flicker Field, they did gain shroud though which is still annoying.

Aether Sails have changed as well, no more raiders BSing there way across the table first turn.

 jackflashultra wrote:
Just got done playing the new DE with my Chaos and I will say that there vehicles have gotten weaker with the loss of the Flicker Field, they did gain shroud though which is still annoying.

Aether Sails have changed as well, no more raiders BSing there way across the table first turn.

They have, what, a 36" Flat Out with Aether Sales now? That doesn't seem much different then before.

Also, I didn't see this at first, but Raiders and Venoms come stock with DS now, FWIW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I really think stall tactics are going to be a very common thing for DE, now. Aim for second, and reserve, reserve, reserve. The longer you can wait, the better PfP is when you come on.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

 jackflashultra wrote:
Just got done playing the new DE with my Chaos and I will say that there vehicles have gotten weaker with the loss of the Flicker Field, they did gain shroud though which is still annoying.

Aether Sails have changed as well, no more raiders BSing there way across the table first turn.

They have, what, a 36" Flat Out with Aether Sales now? That doesn't seem much different then before.

Also, I didn't see this at first, but Raiders and Venoms come stock with DS now, FWIW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I really think stall tactics are going to be a very common thing for DE, now. Aim for second, and reserve, reserve, reserve. The longer you can wait, the better PfP is when you come on.

Completely depends on format. If it's maelstrom then stalling loses you the game real fast.

Completely depends on format. If it's maelstrom then stalling loses you the game real fast.

Really? If anything I would think stalling is perfect for Maelstrom.

To be clear, I'm not saying reserve the entire army (which would obviously lose you any game). Keep enough fast elements on the board early, and reserve other fast elements to respond to new Maelstrom dynamics.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Why not equip an Archon/Succubus with a WWP and attach it to a Scourge unit to make sure they get where they're going? Have to take an HQ anyway, and might as well use it to help make sure that certain vehicle dies. Maybe 4x Heat Lances instead of Haywire Blasters- perhaps a Blaster(Archon)/Blast pistol(Succubus) for an additional chance at a Pen?

a unit of scourges, decked with weapons is 120 points

an archon with blaster, WWP and nothing else(no shadowfield) is 110.

So the archon is nearly doubling the cost of the scourges, for not much effect.

with haywire, it only needs to DS within 24" of it's target. No risk of mishap
with heat, it needs to DS within 9" of it's target. With average scatter you should be able to make it almost all the time.

with heat, it needs to DS within 9" of it's target. With average scatter you should be able to make it almost all the time.

That's a fair point, and I tend to agree. Though, I don't think attaching the WWP to them is a terrible idea all the time. I would envision a list where the WWP is flexible, and if you had something you absolutely wanted to kill, like a Land Raider for instance, bringing in the Scourges for assistance.

 Red Corsair wrote:


If your considering CWE allies then I would say warp in fire dragons. Some people like wraith guard more, but FD are cheaper and lets be honest, both units will be dead the turn after. Dragons are much better at AT and have a much smaller footprint meaning they are harder to prevent from coming in. If you want to have a shot at distorting a MC, take the WG. Either way also consider a shadow council of Shadow seers, being able to psishriek a different target then you shoot leans me toward FD's again as they can hit a high AV target while the Archons helm + a few psishrieks will drop any MC's or high value infantry out there.

Is there anything in CWE eldar that has split fire, because that could really make things interesting

 Red Corsair wrote:

On another note, I am thinking of fielding Barahoth +12 clawed fiends.
555pts for 40 T5 wounds.
On the assault they will poor out 72 S5 attacks plus barahoths 5 s4 ap3 attacks.
All with hit and run, should shred anything it looks at while being immune to tarpits!

Obvious counter are things with str10 or ID. Luckily it could outrun a bunch of grotesques