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So A while ago I emailed GW Investor Relations with a few ranting questions. I freely admit that I was being something of a douchey brat but I was frustrated with the company that makes one of my favourite things making me feel stupid for liking the things so much. So yeah, it wasn't the most thought out email I've ever sent.

Anyway, I thought some of you guys would get a kick out of some rarely seen official reaction from Games Workshop. I've put their responses in bold because the email that was sent back to me was a little hard to follow.

Cheers,

My original email:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write to you today as somebody who fell in love with second edition Space Marines. I still collect those old metal marines and pick them up when and where I can. Let us suppose that I would want to invest money into the company that has formed such a large part of my free time and the free time of my friends over the years. I have some questions about why you do business the way that you do.

1. Why do Games Workshop shy away from all customer relations in this interconnected age? Instead of talking to your customers through the internet, you use it as a shield with which to keep them away. Even the 'eavy metal facebook group was shut down without explanation, leaving us to assume that it was a draconian and clandestine measure that does little more than hurt a community which has already been shrunken to its smallest by your actions.

Instead, why not foster and grow that community? Your fans want to love the company, not just your products. Why not support international tournaments - like League of Legends - and have fans play test and break your rule sets again and again so that they can be better with each revision? Why not have an official forum for people to share the hobby and get FAQ's in real time from the design team? Why not open the design team up and let us see their process through video blogs? Why not give the company a face?

2. Why are your retail stores not places where I feel free to play, create and share in your fabulous hobby? The massive cuts Games Workshop have undertaken and the relentless mark-ups on box sets has alienated great swathes of your customers. Every Games Workshop store I have visited has tried to get me to buy Dark Vengeance or, before that, Assault on Black Reach. I have three standing armies of around 2000 points and still, they treat me like a new player.

And it's because old players don't want to go there. We don't want to deal with other people's children, we want to enjoy our favourite game. But now, in place of hobby centres we have virtual stalls that spit out box sets and ask us if we need any glue. I don't buy your glue, it's overpriced and ineffective. The same with your paint, it's overpriced, comes in useless flip tops instead of dropper bottles and has changed too often for me to connect to it anymore. Those issues go back to customer relations.

3. Why can't Tom Kirby admit that the company is in trouble? Every annual report is filled with this nonsense about healthy numbers when we can all see that dropping sales is being covered up by soaring prices. Why not do the logical thing and try to grow the consumer base by engaging with older hobbyists? If the prices were right, I wouldn't have spent my last lost of 'hobby money' on everything me and a friend would need to play the X-Wing Miniatures game, I'd have bought a Land Raider, some Terminators and a Tactical Squad with Rhino.

Prices are too high and even though Alan Sugar says bad salesmen cry about the prices, consumers just stop paying them. You've gone past the goldilocks zone and off into the woods with current prices and now you're faced with the problem of slashing those prices and not devaluing the product.

If you could please direct this mail to somebody who is willing to answer my many questions, I'd be thankful.


The Reply


Dear Mr -

Thanks so much for taking the time to send your email to the investor relations email address.

Your question 1

'1. Why do Games Workshop shy away from all customer relations in this interconnected age? Instead of talking to your customers through the internet, you use it as a shield with which to keep them away. Even the 'eavy metal facebook group was shut down without explanation, leaving us to assume that it was a draconian and clandestine measure that does little more than hurt a community which has already been shrunken to its smallest by your actions.

Instead, why not foster and grow that community? Your fans want to love the company, not just your products. Why not support international tournaments - like League of Legends - and have fans play test and break your rule sets again and again so that they can be better with each revision? Why not have an official forum for people to share the hobby and get FAQ's in real time from the design team? Why not open the design team up and let us see their process through video blogs? Why not give the company a face?'

Well, we certainly do not shy away from contact with our customers - we see them face to face all the time in our stores around the world, at events and of course the thousands of visitors who come to Warhammer World in Nottingham every year. Our experience of the comment sections of, for example, Facebook, is that they are not very helpful to most of our customers as they simply become a place for trolling, spam or vitriolic opinion. This is to be regretted, but is a fact of the internet age. We are not alone in this opinion.

http://mashable.com/2014/09/02/pewdiepie-cuts-youtube-comments/

As regards international tournaments, letting fans break our rule sets and so on, our main thrust is not about competitive gameplay, but about the wonderful worlds of Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 and the amazing models which we painstakingly create for our customers to collect. Of course, if some of our fans wish to play competitive, 'hardcore' tournaments, then that is up to them - we wish them well and hope that they very much have a good time. We, however, do not seek to prescribe what anyone does with our models, rather we let our customers and collectors get stuck in to whatever takes their fancy from the broad and inclusive spectrum of collecting, assembling, modelling, painting and gaming. If collectors wish to write their own rules, or use no rules, paint their models, leave them unpainted - we are not precious! -'Everyone's hobby is not the same as mine' is something we take very much to heart.

Linked to that sentiment and principle is our belief that any 'cult of personality' is not helpful either. We do not wish to hand out official 'rulings' from 'personalities', and we see no need to - by and large our customers enjoy engaging with each other and making their own minds up about what rules (if any) to use, how to interpret a particular phrase or line and so on. Again, we do not wish to be prescriptive in that regard.

Your question 2
'2. Why are your retail stores not places where I feel free to play, create and share in your fabulous hobby? The massive cuts Games Workshop have undertaken and the relentless mark-ups on box sets has alienated great swathes of your customers. Every Games Workshop store I have visited has tried to get me to buy Dark Vengeance or, before that, Assault on Black Reach. I have three standing armies of around 2000 points and still, they treat me like a new player.

And it's because old players don't want to go there. We don't want to deal with other people's children, we want to enjoy our favourite game. But now, in place of hobby centres we have virtual stalls that spit out box sets and ask us if we need any glue. I don't buy your glue, it's overpriced and ineffective. The same with your paint, it's overpriced, comes in useless flip tops instead of dropper bottles and has changed too often for me to connect to it anymore. Those issues go back to customer relations.'

It does not feel as if it is our place to answer such a personal question as to why you do not feel at home in a Games Workshop store. Many thousands of customers do, every day. However, it is equally true that many other customers would rather engage with like minded collectors in a club, an independent retailer, or in a pals games room. All of which are super- we make no judgement about where, when or how anyone enjoys their hobby, and very much encourage such diversity and choice.

As to prices, ultimately it is of course entirely down to each individual how they wish to spend their hard earned cash. We would not want that any other way. We do, however, believe that Games Workshop products are better quality than ever before and offer good value. Not that we are resting on our laurels of course - we can always do better, and strive every day to do so.

Meanwhile our paint range has always been a key part of our offer and we continually strive to make it ever better too. The current range is extremely popular, and the painting system it supports allows and encourages everyone to get on and achieve really good results. Some of the new paints are amazing - have you seen the technical paints? Ardcoat gloss varnish, Agrellan Earth, Blood for the Blood God (blood effect), Lahmian medium for glazes and transfer sealing, liquid green stuff, Nihilakh oxide verdigris effect to name a few. We experience few issues with our paints or glues - but we are always seeking to improve our products and receive any comments/observations thankfully.

Your Question 3
This question/observation seems to be about price. We make no apologies about our prices and Games Workshop is, as Tom Kirby says, in good health. We are a very profitable business, manufacturing all our own products in Nottingham, UK, and regularly deliver strong dividends to our owners. Not many businesses have been able to say the same, especially over the difficult economic times of the last few years. We achieve this success by selling lots of Citadel miniatures to lots of happy collectors all around the world.

Of course, we know that all customers have choices - no one does business in a vacuum. We respect that, and think it is a very healthy thing. Whilst we would of course prefer that you continue to enjoy the wide range of products available from Games Workshop, we also very much hope that if you decide that X Wing prepainted models are the range for you, that you have a great time with them.

Once again, many thanks for your considered letter.

Best Regards


Investor Relations.

Very interesting.

That reply probably went through four or five meetings and 8 drafts.

I do not miss doing public liaison work.

What I took from this: Wow, GW recognises X-wing exists!

On a more serious note related to that, though, I find it a little odd that they answer a question about price/value by referring to no-assembly pre-painted figures made by a company they actively work with rather than talking about the likes of Mantic/Dreamforge that are producing much more similar product and content for half the price!

If collectors wish to write their own rules, or use no rules, paint their models, leave them unpainted - we are not precious! -'Everyone's hobby is not the same as mine' is something we take very much to heart.

So, they essentially said, "if you don't like the rules, make up your own!"
If that ain't a blank check...
But it also sounds rather lazy on their part. They'll keep making rules that would suit them, rather than their customers?

I find it sort of off-putting that this mail continually refers to the community as "customers" or "collectors".
Who are they kidding? If the game aspect of GW didn't exist nobody would buy their overpriced models.

Its not a bad set of answers to be fair imo.
They are right in that
GW does engage with customers through the stores, events and games days more so than social media, thats the way they like to do it, have stated so and probably will continue to do it. Should they engage in social media a bit more? Probably but they're also right in that its an avenue for trolling and worthless gak, I see it everyday in my job.

They are right on the tournament angle, for years GW has stated they arent going to run competitive tourneys and would rather see players engage in the cinematic beer and pretsels style events. Whilst many people dont agree with that, at least they have stated it openly and make no effort to conceal that fact. Its a case of accepting it and organising ones owns events, of which loads take place anyway.

Agreed on the response to the store question, I dont love GW stores but having said that they arent woeful either. Usually the staff are friendly, they will let you paint a bit, play a small game and generally get on with what you want. Yes YMMV quite a bit but the original question was highly subjective so everyone is inevitably going to have a different experience with the stores. Could they do a bit more in store? Yes, probably, but they arent dens of depression either.

Fully agree that their scuplts and range of paints/sprays etc have improved beyond measure in the last few years and have stated as such before. Whether they justify some of the price increases is another matter but some of the newer kits imho are stunning. Whether one agrees is down to subjective and artistic taste but for hard evidence something like his might be salient: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/617492.page
In addition some kits are actually good value, its the ones that make you go "huh 40 quid for 3 guys" that annoy me most. I really wish they'd change to a model of price per points ingame or price per unit slot (troops=super cheap, elites a bit more expensive etc).

The price argument I cant comment on, its been done to death and I dont have enough financial knowledge to comment on whether a price of X is really fair based on production/shipping/sales/support etc etc.

But an interesting reply nonetheless. Cheers for sharing.

 Paradigm wrote:
What I took from this: Wow, GW recognises X-wing exists!

Most likely a 2nd e-mail on the way saying the person who wrote the e-mail is no longer with the company and any view expressed..........etc


Thanks for sharing the e-mail dude

 darkness screamer wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
What I took from this: Wow, GW recognises X-wing exists!

Most likely a 2nd e-mail on the way saying the person who wrote the e-mail is no longer with the company and any view expressed..........etc


Thanks for sharing the e-mail dude

Then we find out GW bought X-Wing

Atomic Number 50 + Auditory Canal.


... if ever I saw one.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Atomic Number 50 + Auditory Canal.


... if ever I saw one.

I don't get it

You have Google.

Oh wait...never mind, googled the wrong thing.
Heh.

Paradigm wrote:What I took from this: Wow, GW recognises X-wing exists!

On a more serious note related to that, though, I find it a little odd that they answer a question about price/value by referring to no-assembly pre-painted figures made by a company they actively work with rather than talking about the likes of Mantic/Dreamforge that are producing much more similar product and content for half the price!

The funny thing is I thought it was quite a decent reply then you get to that last bit which in my head I would paraphrase as "we're 'really' glad you like your X-Wing prepaints (yuk) now take them and feth off!".

H.B.M.C. wrote:You have Google.

Yeah all the best comedy requires research!

 notprop wrote:
Yeah all the best comedy requires research!

On the contrary, all the best references require the most obscurity.

I have to admit, that's a very polite and reasonable answer from GW. Thoughtful, well placed arguments and less marketing blabla (except for the paints part...).

Whenever I have a complaint to make and contact a big business I'd love to have such an answer and not the normal

"Thank you for your E-Mail, it will be forwarded to the right place" blab and then never to be heard off.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 notprop wrote:
Yeah all the best comedy requires research!

On the contrary, all the best references require the most obscurity.

Now I think you are just being Atomic Number 50 + Biblical Boat + y.

Wow..
That whole thing is a mess.

I think you misformatted the second paragraph from the bottom- it seems to be part of the reply to you, and your "question 3" seems to be missing.

Yeah, apologies for that, I've gone through my sent mail and attached my original. The reply is copy/pasted in full from GW

Steelmage99 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 notprop wrote:
Yeah all the best comedy requires research!

On the contrary, all the best references require the most obscurity.

Now I think you are just being Atomic Number 50 + Biblical Boat + y.

That was a good one.

 Paradigm wrote:
What I took from this: Wow, GW recognises X-wing exists!

On a more serious note related to that, though, I find it a little odd that they answer a question about price/value by referring to no-assembly pre-painted figures made by a company they actively work with rather than talking about the likes of Mantic/Dreamforge that are producing much more similar product and content for half the price!

It's because pre paints are the opposite of the "hobby", so the safest alternative they can suggest.

Herzlos wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
What I took from this: Wow, GW recognises X-wing exists!

On a more serious note related to that, though, I find it a little odd that they answer a question about price/value by referring to no-assembly pre-painted figures made by a company they actively work with rather than talking about the likes of Mantic/Dreamforge that are producing much more similar product and content for half the price!

It's because pre paints are the opposite of the "hobby", so the safest alternative they can suggest.

Exactly what I mean, they use a totally different product to avoid answering the question of why there are people producing basically the same product at a fraction of the price. Maybe it's just because the OP mentioned X-wing, but I'd be interested to see how they'd respond to the same example but swapping X-wing for Warpath/Deadzone.

I was never expecting GW to agree with any of the criticisms - especially on their prices. They are clearly not going to back down on that one any time soon.

Seems like the official stance on rules is that they're secondary to the models and fluff. Again, this has been fairly clear for some time, so if you're hoping for a redesign of the rules to make them more streamlined, I wouldn't get my hopes up. Same goes for social media, they obviously prefer to maintain secrecy rather than change their minds on that one.

All in all I'm not surprised by their response - they were never going to open up to someone who emailed them and admit they'd done wrong. But I have to give them credit for bothering to write a proper reply.

Yeah, they actually put some reasons for why they choose to act the way they do. Sure, I think their arguments are wrong, but at least I feel like they have thought through the justifications for thier actions.

That allows meto give them a bit mor ecredit thatn I did before.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Atomic Number 50 + Auditory Canal.


... if ever I saw one.

SnEAM?

It didnt seem canned at all which is nice.

It strikes me as another instance of GW pushing the 'collectibles' narrative.

The thrust of the message in that email is that GW makes collectible miniature figurines. What customers decide to do with those collectibles is their own damn business.

I.e. GW does not make toys designed to be used in games. This, of course, is a pile of bull-gack, and directly contradicts decades of GW's own statements about its products.

I owned stock back when finecast first came out. I had picked up a Librarian and it was complete gack so I sent an extensive rant to Investor Relations detailing exactly what I thought about their "fine" product. A few days later I received a response from Tom Kirby; I'm not silly enough to think that Tom actually typed and sent the email but it was signed by him instead of "Investor Relations" though I'd almost believe he wrote it because it was chock full of the drivel he posts in the Chairman's Preamble on the earnings reports.

This bit was interesting:

Well, we certainly do not shy away from contact with our customers - we see them face to face all the time in our stores around the world, at events and of course the thousands of visitors who come to Warhammer World in Nottingham every year. Our experience of the comment sections of, for example, Facebook, is that they are not very helpful to most of our customers as they simply become a place for trolling, spam or vitriolic opinion. This is to be regretted, but is a fact of the internet age. We are not alone in this opinion.

At this point, it would have been good to reply; why is it then, that every other major miniature and wargame producer on the market has a variety of social media inc. FB, twitter and forums, and is able to run them without them being overwhelmed by 'trolling, spam and vitriol'?

Intresting,
It was a good reply, one you would expect from any company. If the people at gw aren't brain washed or something it must of killed the poor guy (or guys) to type "Our prices are reasonable".
They did however had a strong point about the fact they do make contact with the customer through there stores.
Thanks for sharing!