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Hey guys,

Next week I will play in my local store vs a CSM (mostly Khorne) player.

I plan the following:

1 Big Mek KFF, lucky stick
3 Mek Gunz, KMK, 3 ammo runts

29 Shootas
1 Nob PK, BP
1 Painboy

29 Shootas
1 Nob PK, BP
1 Painboy

2 Dakkajets OR
2x 8 Lootas, and 1 naked Mek in each squad above, to nullify a few challenges.

What is your opinion?
Thanks!

I'd invest in chaff like grots, empty trucks and stuff. Your main aim vs a mellee-oriented army is to deny charge.

And i'd use mek gunz as chaff either. Sometimes, there are just no worthy targets for your artillery. In this case, march forward and block the way to your troops for a counter-charge.

I like the idea of the empty trukk, but wouldn't it be a too easy "first blood" point for my opponent? :/

Btw, how are the helldrake and the new walkers (ferrobrutus and co) doing in v7?

Heldrake is nerfed with just 1 attack instead of 1+d3 and hull-mounted flamers, so just a 45 degree arc. Ferrobrute? You mean Helbrute? Well, it's just a dreadnought. It's pretty meh unless used within one of Helbrute formations.

Helcult brings a helbrute + 2 squads of fearless cultists. Helbrute gets 3+ cover from them.
Mayhem pack is a squadron of 4 freaking helbrutes and one character helbrute. They can choose the crazed result themselves and it affects the whole pack. Could be dangerous to orks in some casesbut it's a 500+ pt formation of footslogging walkers.
Another one is 3 deepstriking helbrutes with auto-crazed.

On the whole, they're nice and could cause trouble for orks. However, pretty vulnerable to hardcounters. And orks usually have plenty of stuff to chew through them. Personally, i run a DLS warboss and a bunch of rerollable s10 ap2 attacks are deadly.

BTW your list is a bit illegal cause you have 3 HQ and only 2 troops.

Take slotless meks to die in challenges.

And nope, i don't think that giving up first blood is that scary. Especially when you have a choice to either give up first blood or have a 30-strong squad massacraced on a charge. Besides, the more stuff you have - the better you usually fare in maelstorm.

@kooosei: therefore, what would you field vs CSM ? More melee units than I planned I guess ?

Not necessery. Just more chaff to protect yourself from Khornate mellee. See, mellee-oriented lists usually don't have enough firepower to clear the way and thus have to waste time on killing 40 pt grots with their 500 pt deathstars.

Yeah, good idea, I will throw a bunch of grots (like 2x10) in the field. It may help, or at least make him waste of few shots.

But I am still hesitating on the following:
- SAG (as I would like to test it once) vs Warboss (maybe a biker one, to hunt big demons walkers)
- Dakkajet vs Lootas

Any opinion to share ?

it all depends on his list.

SAG is random but lots of fun. Warboss with pk+dls is usually a better bet but SAG mek is surely fun. If you take him, don't forget about ammo runts.

I don't run any of those (lootas/dakkajet) simply cause i don't like lootas and dakkajet is a waste in my lists, so can't tell you anything in particular about them. Maybe lootas will be a safer bet cause they'll be on board turn one while the dakkajet might apear too late.

 koooaei wrote:
SAG mek is surely fun. If you take him, don't forget about ammo runts.

I gave him DLS instead. Good to go ?

Why not warboss than?

Anywayz, it's a friendly game. Besides, vs khornate marines. I'd go for SAG and hope to get teleported somewhere.

I mean, I use DLS to reroll the scatter dice, like with ammo runt. Is this wrong?

And btw, if I screen my Boyz with Gretchin, do the Boyz get the 5+ cover save vs pie templates as well ? (except Barrage ofc)

Do you have any versus khorne? Painbosses. Get them in there. That 5+ FnP makes all the difference when it comes to orks dealing with CC, and it isn't negated by flamers or most CCW, two things that can really wreck orks.

Ofc, if you look at my army in the first post, you will see 2 Painbosses, one per Boyz squad

 RedizDead wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
SAG mek is surely fun. If you take him, don't forget about ammo runts.

I gave him DLS instead. Good to go ?

Just 3 ammo runts might be better than DLS. Firstly, you can't reroll str dice with DLS anywayz. Secondly, you want to hang back with a SAG mek, so will likely not get the benefits of +1 ws for your boyz - but it's situational. Thirdly, i doubt you'll need the reroll more than 3 times per game and it's plain cheaper.

DLS is nice if you plan to just sit your mek + boyz in the backfield. It's not if you plan to be more mobile with the boyz cause mek's gona be immobile - that's for sure.

I may face Nurgle + Khorne, and not just Khorne. But I guess that won't change anything for me.

And btw, if I screen my Boyz with Gretchin, do the Boyz get the 5+ cover save vs pie templates as well ? (except Barrage ofc)

Yep they do get cover. I occasionally screen the boyz with big gunz. KMK are nice shots but sometimes killing 1-2 models is not worth giving up on protection to your centerpiece squads.

I feel like I've joine this thread late, but I have to ask: do you have a ADL? They're are VERY useful for protecting your lootas and Mek Guns. Speaking of which:

 RedizDead wrote:
2x 8 Lootas, and 1 naked Mek in each squad above, to nullify a few challenges.

I think your mistaken on how these work. The mek upgrades that are available to Lootas aren't allowed to move to a different squad. Only the HQ MiniMeks can join random squads. The Loota Mek is fixed to the Loota squad.

A few points of interest:
-- A 30 ork blob NEEDS a painboy. it should be your next investment. FnP on 30 boys is a gift and you shouldn't leave home without it.
-- if you can, make sure your lootas are as big a unit as possible (aka 15). As they're no longer fearless, they can Go to Ground behind the ADL and get a nice boost (from the previous 4+ coversave they're offered) and will still allow them to snap fire, which only reduces us to BS1, which (if they're shooting things like fliers) really doesn't matter.
-- I feel like your army needs more Powerklaws, although it might just be on habbit. Personally, I would take a squad like this:

Either: HQ -- Warboss + Mega Armor + LuckyStikk + Bosspole
or: HQ -- Mek + Mega Armor + KFF + LStikk
Mini HQ -- 2x Meks + 1 Buzzsaw (the one without anything is designed to accept any challenges from scary stuff with AP1 or AP2 CC weapons)
TROOP -- 17 Slugga Boyz + Nob + Pklaw + BP
Inside: Heavy -- Battlewagon + Ram + Boarding Plank + 2 Rokkits

HQ -- Painboy + Bike + Da Finkin Kap
TROOP -- 30 Shoota boyz (with FnP from the above) + 3 Rokkits with 1 Nob + PK + BP
Reason:
Further ranged support:
Heavy -- 15 Lootas
Heavy -- 3 Mek Guns -- KMK
ADL to protect the Lootas and KMKs. Also unlocks a Comms Relay to re-roll the Dakkajets into play.

Thanks for the feedbacks, but I don't know if you guys did read my first post...

1. Regarding the Meks, I know that it's not the Mek from the Loota that I can use in other squads, but the "free" HQ ones.
2. If you look at my army, both my Boyz squads have 1 Painboy each
3. My 3rd HQ is and will be SAG, because I want to test it during this game.
4. My Boyz are Shootas as well. It's 3 years that they always been Shootas for me, while footslogging.

Otherwise,

4. I don't plan to use an ADL, but it's a good idea though. It could give a great cover to my KMK's and Lootas.
5. I am surprised that you give your Mek a buzzsaw... That makes him so expensive... I prefer having him naked for challenges, and with a Nob PK close to him to shred stuff.
6. Having only 1 vehicle (a BW in your proposal), from my experience, means that he will be focused from T1 on. Usually, or I go full mounted, or full footslogging. It's how it worked the best for me in the past. Moreover, I will play vs CSM, so Lascanons somewhere.

You need 3 troops to use 3 HQ

Loota meks won't nullify anything. Extra wounds in challenges go to the squad anywayz. They can be useful for a 1/3 chance to get mob rule and not run or get pinned. But it's usually not worth the loss of a deffgun.

Yeah for sure. I never gave my Lootas any Meks in years. It won't start now

This is my new configuration, but I will maybe change something for a ADL:

1 Big Mek SAG, 3 ammo runts
1 Mek
3 KMK, 3 ammo runts

28 Shootas
1 Nob PK BP
1 Painboy
1 Mek

28 Shootas
1 Nob PK BP
1 Painboy
1 Mek

2x 10 Gretchins (for diversion and meatshield)

9 Lootas

I will maybe remove 1 squad of Gretchins + something else to add 1 ADL.

Ah, i saw the lootas next to the meks so I incorrectly assumed, sorry about that.

I didnt realise the Painboys were included, as koooaei
mentioned, 3 HQ = 3 Troops, and I only saw 2 HQ.

Id on't thin kyou need 2 squads of Gretchin. I would much rather have a max squad of Lootas instead, much better support. I would keep 1 squad joined to the SAG Big Mek for extra wounds. Would it be worth putting the Gitfinder on him so he has BS3? Probably not since it scatters so much anyway...

If your planning on having the Ork Horde Detachment (which looses you Objective Secured) I would really recommend the Finkin Kap. This should increase your chance of getting in the 30 blobs via infultrate (badly spelt). Tho I'm not sure what you'd cut for these.

The buzzsaw on the Mini Mek was only on 1, and it was mainly to add a bit more punch in CC. I Would be worried about running an army with no Combat Piviot (Hence the Battlewgaon mob).

Spread the gunz to be 3 squads.
You can have 29 shootas + Nob.

Your mek doesn't have a SAG in the list. It has KFF.

koooaei wrote:Your mek doesn't have a SAG in the list. It has KFF.

Oops! Thanks, fixed

Sketchyfk wrote: I would much rather have a max squad of Lootas instead, much better support. I would keep 1 squad joined to the SAG Big Mek for extra wounds

I don't think that Lootas and SAG always have the same target. I put the SAG along with KMK as they are all pie plates.

 RedizDead wrote:

Sketchyfk wrote: I would much rather have a max squad of Lootas instead, much better support. I would keep 1 squad joined to the SAG Big Mek for extra wounds

I don't think that Lootas and SAG always have the same target. I put the SAG along with KMK as they are all pie plates.

Sorry I don't think I worded that very well. I meant you should keep the Grot Squad with the Big Mek. Most definately, the Mek shouldn't hang out with the Lootas. Pie's can't hit the sky.

I totally agree with you, my only concern is, as I play vs CSM, if I field my SAG with grots only, I have nothing left to nullify a possible challenge...

Your SAG should should, typically, be far way from everything that could challenge it. The main thought is: what could? They will need to cross the board or come in via infultrate. With the massive numbers of fire-power, you should be able to take out anything that gets close. Otherwise I would suggest getting a bastion and plonking the SAG ontop. He'll be protected this way and get a nice, big view of the battlefield.

Otherwise, your Rutherand can accept challenges.

And id say Just throw more boyz on him , you can swarm him and deal with him easy! Take a unit of sluggas, ma warboss with stick, pk nob and naked mek in one unit acept chalange with mek , look out all da ap 2 atacks from boss and than watch boss tank all his 20 berserks ! throw bunch of manz on some unit without ap 2 weapons on top of it , They cant win us in mele if we smart !!!!!!

Yup I like Darkflame's idea, bring the fight to them. I'm pretty sure I've heard of a similar plan somewhere before... oh yeah!

Sketchyfk wrote:
HQ -- Warboss + Mega Armor + LuckyStikk + Bosspole
Mini HQ -- Mek (designed to accept any challenges from scary stuff with AP1 or AP2 CC weapons)
TROOP -- 17 Slugga Boyz + Nob + Pklaw + BP
Inside: Heavy -- Battlewagon + Ram + Boarding Plank + 2 Rokkits

I just forgot to mention that the slugga's were designed as Look Out Sir fodder...

Sketchyfk wrote:
Your SAG should should, typically, be far way from everything that could challenge it. The main thought is: what could? They will need to cross the board or come in via infultrate. With the massive numbers of fire-power, you should be able to take out anything that gets close. Otherwise I would suggest getting a bastion and plonking the SAG ontop. He'll be protected this way and get a nice, big view of the battlefield.

Otherwise, your Rutherand can accept challenges.

The SAG on a bastion is a brilliant idea!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sketchyfk wrote:
Yup I like Darkflame's idea, bring the fight to them. I'm pretty sure I've heard of a similar plan somewhere before... oh yeah!

Sketchyfk wrote:
HQ -- Warboss + Mega Armor + LuckyStikk + Bosspole
Mini HQ -- Mek (designed to accept any challenges from scary stuff with AP1 or AP2 CC weapons)
TROOP -- 17 Slugga Boyz + Nob + Pklaw + BP
Inside: Heavy -- Battlewagon + Ram + Boarding Plank + 2 Rokkits

I just forgot to mention that the slugga's were designed as Look Out Sir fodder...

I will try that next time
But first I want to try this shooty army