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[1850] - Chaos Daemons - 3 Takes on Herald Hammer-Feedback Appreciated  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch





Lists utilizing lots of Heralds and fast assault units are my favorite way to play the Denizens of the Warp.

All three of the lists bank on flooding the opponents deployment zone with high priority threats from turn 1, and augmenting that with MSU annoyances via summoning. None include Fateweaver, however, as I'd really like to move away from using him in EVERY Deamons list. He just feels like too much for what he actually brings in 7th.

Which of these makes the best TAC list in your opinion? Is Be'Lakor good enough to replace the Big Bird?

List 1: Herald Hammer

Be'Lakor
Herald of Tzeentch: ML3, Disc
Herald of Tzeentch: ML3, Disc
Herald of Khorne: Juggernaut, Greater, Lesser, Locus of Wrath
--Hoping for Armorbane/Fleshbane on this guy, will probably go with Greater Aetherblade, unless he rolls 4+FNP or +1 wound/IWND
Herald of Slaanesh: ML2, Steed, Greater, Lesser, Locus of Beguilement

11x Pink Horrors
11x Pink Horrors

9x Screamers
17x Flesh Hounds
20x Seekers

This list banks on the following psychic powers combo to be most effective:
-Hounds scout in front, get Invis, screen Seekers
-Seekers, close behind, put a toe in the Shrouding bubble cast by Be'lakor granting a 3+ cover save
-Screamers and Tzeentch Heralds follow closely, cast Cursed Earth for what should be pretty much army wide +1 invuln, can jink for 2+ cover if they get near enough to Be'Lakor (shouldn't be too hard)
-Be'Lakor hides ideally

List 2: Hounds n' Heralds

Be'Lakor
Herald of Tzeentch: ML3, Disc
Herald of Tzeentch: ML3, Disc
Herald of Khorne: Juggernaut, Greater, Lesser, Locus of Wrath
Herald of Khorne: Juggernaut, Greater, Lesser, Locus of Wrath

12x Pink Horrors: Irridescent Horror
11x Pink Horrors

9x Screamers
20x Flesh Hounds
12x Flesh Hounds

Psyhic buffs distributed much as before. Both Khorne Heralds hide in the Big squad of Hounds and then one splits off to join the other hound squad on turn 2.
Can more Hounds do as well as Hounds and Seekers? I know they lack rending, but they are MUCH more durable, and Khorne Heralds are pretty brutal if you get them where they need to be.

List 3: Herald Grinder

Be'Lakor
Herald of Tzeentch: ML3, Disc
Herald of Tzeentch: ML3, Disc
Herald of Khorne: Juggernaut, Greater, Lesser, Locus of Wrath

11x Pink Horrors: Irridescent Horror
12x Pink Horrors: Irridescent Horror

9x Screamers
20x Flesh Hounds

Soul Grinder: Slaanesh, Torrent
Soul Grinder: Slaanesh, Torrent

Very interested in running this one at some point, but alas I do not own any Grinders and the wallet is tight. The possibilty of Cursed Earth on the Grinders seems like a very pleasing combination. My only concern is that the Grinders are a good bit slower than the rest of the list so that target priority is less of an issue for my opponent on turn 1.

How do you think these stack up? Which list would you bring to a local tourney and why?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/22 01:55:02


"Backfield? I have no backfield." 
   
Made in us
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch






I love the first and third list. I am definitely going to have to try them out. I usually like more rolls on divination for a good chance at misfortune.

Fun fact, a dog squad w herald charging a misfortuned knight will kill it before it strikes most of the time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am thinking that outflanking the seekers may also be a sweet option.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/22 02:05:46


Aftermath can be calculated.

Dark humor is like food, not everyone gets it.  
   
Made in us
Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch





Yeah I used to roll on nothing but Divination back in 6th (I took a hiatus, but I'm jonesin' to get some games in), but it seems like fishing daemonology for that sweet, sweet cursed earth would be pretty dope. Maybe if I hit Cursed Earth on one of my horror squads or early on in rolling for my Herald's powers. Also might depend on the opponent. If I know I'm going up against multiple big bad MC's I'd probably start looking for misfortune.

Are you talking about a Wraith Knight or an Imperial Knight? Because if a squad of Hounds can do that to an Imperial Knight, like, [keanureeves]whoa[/keanureeves]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/22 02:46:38


"Backfield? I have no backfield." 
   
Made in us
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch






I am in fact referring to the imperial knight. A khorne herald by himself can kill a Wraithknight rather easily.

Lets assume the dog squad has the rage locus (What I usually take) and charges a misfortuned Knight.

80 attacks (.66666)= 53.3333
Needing 6's to rend (.166666)= 8.8888
2/3 glance/pen= 6 glances
+Herald= .666 glances (More if armorbane)
Total=6.6666 glances.

Assuming prescience= 8.888888 glances on our turn= dead Knight before it strikes!. (messed up on math, had to go back and do it again)

Keep in mind this is a solo dog squad. Of course add in an i5 MC like a LOC, or for a sure kill, Be'lakor. You will definitely kill it before it strikes.

However, my preference is to keep the knight alive during my turn, so I kill it in the following turn, freeing my units to act on my terms, thus why I usually take a slightly smaller dog squad.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/10/22 03:15:37


Aftermath can be calculated.

Dark humor is like food, not everyone gets it.  
   
Made in us
Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch





Pretty nifty. I do love me some hounds.

I feel like I'm almost always multi charging with them so I usually go for the locus of wrath as it never goes to waste. Might have to reconsider seeing this though lol. I can't wait for this to actually happen someday. Just to see the Knight player's face after laughing at you for charging it, and then actually bringing it down.

"Backfield? I have no backfield." 
   
Made in us
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch






I only take rage because my list is very divination heavy, and has tons of warp charges. So I usually take rage because +1 attack is something I can;t really get through a psychic power.

My list can more or less kill 2.5 Knights in one game turn. 1 from the dog squad, 1 from Be'lakor and a LOC, and usually 3 HP's from my screamer squad. Only one of those combats need psychic powers, and to get all necessary powers off reliably need about 12 warp charges, my list has 18.

So I can usually get invis off as well, as well as try and go for a psychic scream or a witchfire or something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Redid the math above, either way, Knight dies on their turn, which is preferable to me. I can take a turn of stomps no problem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Messed up the math again, its actually more glances. I did the math where we needed 5 or 6's on the rend. All we need is a 3+ :p

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/22 03:13:04


Aftermath can be calculated.

Dark humor is like food, not everyone gets it.  
   
Made in us
Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch





So from what I take your list is essentially 1 unit of maxed hounds and a Khorne Herald, LoC, Be'lakor, 2-3 Tzeentch Heralds with screamers and some pink horrors?

Do you use the grimoire? I just cant see it being good without Fateweaver though I'd like to hear your take.

"Backfield? I have no backfield." 
   
Made in us
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch






I always take grimoire. Mostly for anti-Eldar/Tau purposes (They have ignores cover and from good ol' belly I have a 2+ rerollable). I only put it on Screamers though, because without Fatey its a gambit, and screamers can safely boost to safety if it fails.


One thing is that my list requires self-allying, yours doesnt. Depending on what your areas allows this can be an illegal list.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/22 03:17:50


Aftermath can be calculated.

Dark humor is like food, not everyone gets it.  
   
Made in us
Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch





Awesome, thanks for your thoughts. I play in a small group (the people I play with know their stuff though) and I end up playing Tau or Eldar like 90% of the time, so I know those ignores cover woes. I don't think be'lakor gets the 2+ rerollable. LoC definitely can though. I'll probably try out something like that set up soon too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Its a small group so we usually reach a consensus on stuff like that pretty easily. I'm sure nobody would have a problem with me at least trying it out.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/22 03:25:31


"Backfield? I have no backfield." 
   
Made in us
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch






The LOC and the screamers get the 2+ rerollable not useful against Taudar.

Really I don't think we have problems with Eldar, Waveserpents dont do great snapshoting at invis or flying targets, and shooting at grimoired targets is not useful for them. Wraithknights get instant killed by dog squad etc.

The damned Tau though with their markerlights. ! or two hits and suddenly that missileside squad doesnt care if you are invisible or flying.

Aftermath can be calculated.

Dark humor is like food, not everyone gets it.  
   
Made in us
Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch





Ugh tell me about it. First few times I was bringing out Be'lakor I forgot about SMS not needing LOS and he died to massed SMS hidden in a unit of broadsides, a skyray, a hammerhead, and maybe a riptide. I was a very sad panda. That, and my buddy loves to run a squad of burst suits. Those with some marker light support can make a lot of dogs have a very bad day. I always think it looks really grim at first when going against Tau, ya know just removing handfuls of models before you get to do anything, but once the multi assaults start going down and he's running off the board then it's all gravy! And that sweet moment when your Khorne Herald guts a riptide. . . mmm dem feels. This was all in 6th mind you when Taudar was a thing and prescience/guide were like candy and before invis got so boss, so I'm hoping things will be different.

"Backfield? I have no backfield." 
   
 
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