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Made in gb
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout






Hey guys!

I'm kinda new to Eldar so I don't really know if my list is very effect or what I can do to improve.. So any help would be appreciated. I've gone with the models and ideas that I liked

Illic Nightspear

Farseer

5 rangers

5 rangers.

5 wraith Guard with D-scythes
In wave serpent with scatter lasers

5 wraith Guard with Wraithcannons
in wave serpent with scatter lasers

2 war walkers with starcannons and scatter lasers
2 war walkers with starcannons and scatter lasers

WraithKnight with suncannon and scattershield.

It comes to 1550 so I'm 50 points over :/ I really like the idea of using illic and his rangers as it fits my theme. I just don't know where to drop my 50 points? Any ideas?

Thank you
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

I'd upgrade the Starcannons to Bright Lances, you already have enough anti-MEQ shooting. I'd also personally drop Illic, which will free up those 50 points you need to lose, and try to bulk out the numbers a bit more.
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout






But surely dropping Illac won't give me numbers that would make a difference? Plus I like the theme he fits in I agree I need anti tank though :/ I don't think the Wraithcannons would do the job
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan






Austin, Texas.

Ill be honest, the list could be way better.
Luckily the solution is very very easy. Drop illic and rangers, some of the worst units in the codex. If you are in need of a sniper, take a vindicare assasin. With points buy a jet bike and mantle of the laughing god for your farseer, and then jet bikes. Lots of jet bikes for troops.
Then your list is great.

Let me reiterate.
Rangers are terrible.
The rest of your list is perfect.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/23 02:29:56


I do drugs.
Mostly Plastic Crack, but I do dabble in Cardboard Cocaine. 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout






I don't want a list that's going to win me every game though. So I'm not bothered if I Was gimping myself for taking rangers. I like the idea of them. Not so much with jet bikes... In know I could make my list better and take another 3 wave serpents...

I don't see how rangers are that bad :/ 12 points for a basic troop sniper.. surely with infiltrate and stealth? Can't you go to ground and make good for holding objectives?
   
Made in us
Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch





The only change i'd make is dropping the Suncannon. The S10 with distort is worth losing an invuln for.

Alternatively you could swap out the d scythes for more stock wraithguard

"Backfield? I have no backfield." 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout






Thank you

That sounds like something I might try. More anti tank as well! I'd the wraith knight survivable enough without the invulnerable?
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Middlesbrough

Nice looking list, and nice to see someone else thinking outside of Wave Serpent spam or Mantarch/Loltarch.

Maybe I'm not using him correctly, but I've not had much success with Illic. One of his special rules seems a bit pointless, as a sniper why would I want to set up any where on the board, even if it's with 18" of an enemy. I want to be as far away as possible, coz despite the power sword and high initiative, he still sucks in combat. Split fire on the other hand is quite useful, especially when you use him in a Dark reaper squad, but possibly not so in a 5 man ranger squad (if that's where you are running him).

Here's a suggestion give your Farseer the Uldanorethi Long Rifle, this will fit in with your theme, could still use the Illic model and will improve his range to 120" and give him AP3 (loses distort though). You can then take a Spiritseer as 2nd HQ, this will then make your Wraithguard units troops and will save you 45pts.

I've tried the Wraithknight in both standard configuration and with Sun Cannon, and preferred having the inv save and the destruction of the sun cannon. If your taking that over the wraithcannons, then you may want to swap the starcannons on war walkers for brightlances. You'll only lose three shots, and this way they can potentially pop tanks, with re-rolls if you hit with scatter laser. As we need to save 5pts some where and I don't know whether you had any gear on farseer, you could leave one walker with a stock weapon and save 5pts that way.

D-Scythes are expensive, but so much fun. 10 man blood angel tac squad dropped into my deployment zone, I disembarked from transport on my go and destroyed the lot.

Anyway, that's my two pence worth

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/23 12:41:56




6000pts 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout






Can I just ask?... what's the mantarch and loltarch?? Or am I being naive? Haha..

Well my incentive was to use.him for picking out power fist Sargents, power klaw nobs. And anything that will pose a threat to my wraith guard in cc. Maybe even luckily insta kill something more dangerous! With ap2 you can even pop the occasional terminator!

I love the idea of using the farseer with the sniper. Would fit well with the theme of my army So if I'm really pushed for points then that definitely sounds like a good option

The problem I'm having with the wraith knight with the sun cannon is that I already have some decent ap 3 and 2 across the board.. but Nothing with a high strength.. and to be honest the heavy Wraithcannons has the same chance to pop a land raider as the bright lances. But is much better for any else so I'm unsure. And it's 50 points I'm area is that I have to shave off :/ my farseer is also stock. Nothing on him what so ever!

Yeah they're eexpensive but I should imagine they'd wreck marines... including terminators... and if they aren't in a vehicle then my wave serpent shall be making a bee line for them haha!

Thank you very much with your input
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Middlesbrough

The Loltarch or Matarch (whichever name it's same guy), is an Autrach on a jetbike, with the mantle of the laughing god. He's usually taken with a laser lance, and possibly fusion gun and banshee mask (I'm trying this next game, just because I've never taken one).

He zips around on his bike, knacking small squads and taking out vehicles. The mantle grants, shrouded and stealth so he gets a 2+ cover save and 3++ jink. He also has hit and run so can leave combat at end of any assault phase, normally most useful leaving at end of enemies, so you can shoot before charging in again.

I had a good game with heavy wraithcannons when my opponent brought lots of drop pods, think he brought 5 and I popped each one with Wraithknight. In annihilation missions it's great and a few relatively easy VPs. On capture the flag it kinda would've been a points sink, after getting first blood for destroying one. It all depends what your opponent brings I suppose.

My problem was in other games, he's wary of heavy wraithcannon so gets everything into cover. The sun cannon was a lot better at clearing out his 3 dev squads who were camped behind aegis defense lines. As you are probably already aware they perform two very different roles on the battle filed. If you take the bright lances on war walkers, you gotta think, do I need two more anti tank shots, or would some marine killing pie plates sound good bear in mind he's also jump MC, so can tear vehicles apart in CC and will be able to get in range without too many problems

Oh and yes, I forgot about Illic's precision shot rule, it sounds great, but with look out sir and cover saves it's not as effective as you'd like it to be.



6000pts 
   
Made in de
Been Around the Block




 Andy140491 wrote:
I don't want a list that's going to win me every game though. So I'm not bothered if I Was gimping myself for taking rangers. I like the idea of them. Not so much with jet bikes... In know I could make my list better and take another 3 wave serpents...

I don't see how rangers are that bad :/ 12 points for a basic troop sniper.. surely with infiltrate and stealth? Can't you go to ground and make good for holding objectives?


I like seeing the Rangers being trusted despite some dogmatic opinions towards them on the internet. They certainly don't win you games but sometimes they can fulfill their job and surprise the opponents. You should however reconsider the equipment on your Wraithknight: -60 points and two very good tank hunting weapons would bump you right under the 1500 mark - your opponent(s) won't likely do the same mistake (clumping their squads together when you have the suncannon) again (this is directed to Gapow).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/23 14:50:15


 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout






I thought against precision shot you couldn't take look out sir?

I'm not expecting the rangers to do great. Just cheap, effective harassing units. If that one squad fires at a terminator squad and kills just one... they've done their job

I think I'll keep my star cannons on the war walkers. And downgrade my knights equipment! So I have decent anti tank and decent MEQ quashing weps. I know the knight is a jump MC but I'd rather not run the risk of something tying me up in cc on the way into destroying the tank
   
Made in us
Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch





The Knight will be pretty survivable in a 1500 pt game, especially if you're not playing super competitive games T8 6W is tough.

You can LOS! against precision shots, but ONLY if you choose a character/independent character to allocate the wound to. So don't put it on the character, put it on the joe with the melta/plasma/ML etc.

Scatter Lasers and Bright Lances is a bad combo. It's just mixing roles too much. You're better off just to go with two Bright Lances. Scatter Laser/Starcannon is the only mixed weapon combo that really makes sense on WarWalkers. Both S6, you just trade rate of fire for AP2 on one weapon. It works.

And you're right, you definitely don't want your Knight tied up with a bunch of little gribblies. He needs to shooting/punching other big scaries every turn

"Backfield? I have no backfield." 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Middlesbrough

Suite, yup he didn't clump them together as much, but I still managed to hit two marines per template (when getting decent scatter or hitting directly), which isn't too bad on a 5 man squad. Plus the scattered shots still hit something most of the time.....................probably got quite lucky

It certainly is a big points sink in a 1500pt battle though, and I only really take my Wraithknight when playing 1750-2000pts.

It's personal preference and no one's opinion is wrong, if the walkers are taking bright lances, and he has the wraithguard in WS as anti tank, would you take the Wraithknight as anti tank too? On that list I'd probably take the Sun Cannon.

Here's my reasoning The Rangers are all one shot weapons, as are wraithcannon (on wraithguard), so until dscythes get into range, there's not a lot of dakka except for the walkers

If the walkers are going to remain scatter lase/starcannon, then I would take the Wraithknight as anti tank. I'd also personally take double scatter lasers over star cannons due to amount of cover saves, I'd rather force more saves per shooting phase..............something else to think about I suppose.

I guess your Wraithknight load out is going to be based on your walker load out. I'd just go with your gut and what you want to play/try out

I play with both variants and like mixing it up, so hopefully Andy's got a few ideas where he can save those 50pts

Have you played Illic Suite? Any joy?



6000pts 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout






Sorted then thanks so much for all your help

So could I snipe his Sargent if I wanted to? IF not I suppose a plasma or melts guy would do

So ill have 2 x 2 with scatter laser and star cannon?

Wraith knight with dual heavy Wraithcannons?
   
Made in us
Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch





Almost all Sergeant types in squads have the Character rule which means your opponent could use LOS! but it only works on a 4+ for Characters. It's a 2+ for Independent Characters so probably not gonna work too well there.

And yes all those loadouts sound good


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you see a list that's bringing a lot of S6-7 shooting and you're going second, then it's probably a good idea to outflank the war walkers for a beta strike

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/23 15:34:36


"Backfield? I have no backfield." 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout






Awww nips! Still. Do disarm a unit of a power fist or power sword on a 4+ may still be worth it or snipe my friends rip tide and hope for a 6

Tbh I think I'd beta with both of them anyway. Everything else is going to be behind cover as much cover as possible and try and get up close and personal once I've either sniped enough stuff that I'm comfortable I can roll over the rest
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Middlesbrough

@ astro_nomicon is it really that bad to take the BL/Scatter laser combo? I wouldn't have done it in previous editions, but with the laser lock rule giving twin linked on the bright lance it means you might miss less shots (I haven't done the math hammer)

You'll also only lose 3 shots against MEQ and have more tactical options with them



6000pts 
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan






Austin, Texas.

WALL OF TEXT INCOMING

Gapow wrote:@ astro_nomicon is it really that bad to take the BL/Scatter laser combo? I wouldn't have done it in previous editions, but with the laser lock rule giving twin linked on the bright lance it means you might miss less shots (I haven't done the math hammer)

You'll also only lose 3 shots against MEQ and have more tactical options with them


It is MUCH better to take all of one role. Twin linked isnt neer as good as 3 extra shots, especially when you have such easy access to guide. all 6 scatter lasers are my favorite though.

Gapow wrote:Have you played Illic Suite? Any joy?


Yes I played with him for the better part of a month trying every combo I ould think to make him even decently good.
To no success. sure hell hit every time, but wounding only 1/2 the time makes him quite terrible at his job. killing 3 models a game is bad. Especially when your opponent doesnt have any Mcs.

Gapow wrote:The Loltarch or Matarch (whichever name it's same guy), is an Autrach on a jetbike, with the mantle of the laughing god. He's usually taken with a laser lance, and possibly fusion gun and banshee mask (I'm trying this next game, just because I've never taken one).

He zips around on his bike, knacking small squads and taking out vehicles. The mantle grants, shrouded and stealth so he gets a 2+ cover save and 3++ jink. He also has hit and run so can leave combat at end of any assault phase, normally most useful leaving at end of enemies, so you can shoot before charging in again.

Oh and yes, I forgot about Illic's precision shot rule, it sounds great, but with look out sir and cover saves it's not as effective as you'd like it to be.


Forgot to mention he can re-roll the cover save, making him near invulnerable to shooting attacks. His problem is he sucks at combat, the one place he is supposed to be good at. Tactical marines, one of the marines worst and most basic troops for CC, knock off 1/3 of his wounds in one go. Thats bad. And sense his only use is getting into combat and trying to do damage, the mantle taurch is a decent option. Comapred to a mantle seer, who doesnt need to suicidal charge toward the enemy to be usefull, there is a clear winner.

Gapow wrote:Nice looking list, and nice to see someone else thinking outside of Wave Serpent spam or Mantarch/Loltarch.

Maybe I'm not using him correctly, but I've not had much success with Illic. One of his special rules seems a bit pointless, as a sniper why would I want to set up any where on the board, even if it's with 18" of an enemy. I want to be as far away as possible, coz despite the power sword and high initiative, he still sucks in combat. Split fire on the other hand is quite useful, especially when you use him in a Dark reaper squad, but possibly not so in a 5 man ranger squad (if that's where you are running him).

Here's a suggestion give your Farseer the Uldanorethi Long Rifle, this will fit in with your theme, could still use the Illic model and will improve his range to 120" and give him AP3 (loses distort though). You can then take a Spiritseer as 2nd HQ, this will then make your Wraithguard units troops and will save you 45pts.

D-Scythes are expensive, but so much fun. 10 man blood angel tac squad dropped into my deployment zone, I disembarked from transport on my go and destroyed the lot.
Anyway, that's my two pence worth


If its for a friendly game, then these lists are fine. If its for anything more than a friendly game with a friend, your going to want to change it. Not taking wave serpents or wraith knights because of this is flat out dumb. Im not suggesting spamming them, (spam=7-8 btw) but taking 2-3 isnt a problem.
Your probably using him right. Hes just bad.

Only reason to take the rifle is if you are hell bent of having a ranger theme, because its a big point sink for what you get.
Really anything ranger related in the codex is just flat out bad. I use my ranger models as vindicare asassins, so that my rangers are actually good, and represent themselves from the fluff.

Andy140491 wrote:I don't want a list that's going to win me every game though. So I'm not bothered if I Was gimping myself for taking rangers. I like the idea of them. Not so much with jet bikes... In know I could make my list better and take another 3 wave serpents...

I don't see how rangers are that bad :/ 12 points for a basic troop sniper.. surely with infiltrate and stealth? Can't you go to ground and make good for holding objectives?


60 points for a squad thats easily killed, has no damage output and can score objectives as well if not worse than the other good troops is not good.
A ENTIRE 5 man ranger squad does LESS than 1 wound to tactical marines. Basic troops. Thats bad.
And rangers die much faster than you think they would.

Even if you take spam serpents and knights, you dont win every game.
Im trying to give you advise so you dont lose 75% of pick ups games at your local flgs.

Rant over

I do drugs.
Mostly Plastic Crack, but I do dabble in Cardboard Cocaine. 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






The mathammer shows that two Bright Lances are more efficient. Rerolling one BL with a useless secondary or just shooting twice? You still get the reroll because there's two guns, but if you hit with both then that's two shots in. I don't get why people would twin-link when they can just double their shots...

The benefit of a few extra S6 shots isn't worth crippling the anti-tank platform. Anti-infantry, sure, but not on an anti-tank.
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout






Okay so how could I re write the list so it's a little more efficient in the future? I'm not entirely keen on jet bikes.. although I suppose I could pick a few up when I want to get a little more competitive!

I wasn't criticising you for helping (ninafiredragon) I was just saying that most of the games I will be playing are friendlies

I was trying to go for an army that can do well... and has a fairly low model count. I was stuck between eldar and space wolves. And seen as though I liked the wraith knight and I was told every unit can do well in eldar, and that the internal balance was better? Plus I hate the data sheet layout of the new rulebooks :/ much prefer the older style
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Middlesbrough

My rangers have died very quickly every game I've played, it sounds great having a nice 2+ cover save, until your opponent flames them with a landspeeder or drop pods with flamers in.

I think you need more bodies. If I've counted right, you've only got 20 guys across the four squads. The rangers won't last very long, so you'll soon be left with just two 5 man wraithguard squads.

To make it competitive you'd probably need to drop the WraithKnight in this size of game drop the rangers etc, but then we're getting away from what you wanted to play with. Give your list a play through, you might get wiped off the board, but then you may get great dice rolls and do better than expected, it's all part of the game.



6000pts 
   
Made in de
Been Around the Block




Really anything ranger related in the codex is just flat out bad.


No.

Not taking wave serpents or wraith knights because of this is flat out dumb.


Flat out no.
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan






Austin, Texas.

Unless you are playing friendly games with friends who have equally bad lists I guarantee you they arent a good choice.
Suite wrote:
Really anything ranger related in the codex is just flat out bad.


No.

Not taking wave serpents or wraith knights because of this is flat out dumb.


Flat out no.


If you arent taking wave serpents because people say they are over powered, then you dont understand what people complain about. People complain when you take 4-6 wave seprents, and or 2-3 wraithknights.
Never once will you be derided or insulted by bringing a few wave serpents and a wraith knight.
And wave serpents are very fluffy, especially when you have one for each squad.

I do drugs.
Mostly Plastic Crack, but I do dabble in Cardboard Cocaine. 
   
 
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