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Hey all,

Got a few questions, this game has caught my curiosity lately. Since the game types and missions in Warhammer 40k suck pretty bad (lets be honest). Its a big disappointment to me, they seem basic and repetitive, although I think lots of the reason is the games/armies.

I have absolutely no idea what the objectives/missions/goal in W/h and W/m games are, so I was hoping a few players could summarise them and tell me their opinion of them. and how they compare to the 7th edition 40k rules.

Another question I had (sorry about this) is what army/race plays most like Eldar, or has the qualities of being fast and mobile, either elite or horde, I'm not to fussed with. But speed and mobility is what I really like to exploit (does that work in these games?).

Thanks

Well first off the main constant in all Warmachine missions is that killing your opponent's warcaster/warlock (who is your general/leader and usually your most powerful model on the board) is a win condition. Some people find this hard to get their head around at first and it can be a turn off, but the best analogy I have heard is that your warcaster is basically a King and a Queen from Chess combined into a single model. This is much more obvious once you start playing, remember that Warmachine is a skirmish level game so you aren't going to see 100+ models on the table. Some armies will build heavily to rely on assassination as a win condition, but they aren't any more powerful than list which are built to win on scenario (and scenario based armies can still definitely get wins on assassination and vice versa).

Usually people play using scenarios from the Steamroller packs released by PP. These are tournament packs which they update every year and contain 12 scenarios. All the scenarios are first to 5pts to win, with points being scored through controlling zones (either rectangular or circle) by having none of your opponent's models in it (and you having models in it obviously), controlling flags (similar concept as zones but they are just medium bases that you have to be in contact with to score with no enemy models within 4") and destroying objectives. The scenarios use various different combinations of zones, flags and objectives and its probably easier for you to find the Steamroller pack and have a look rather than try and explain them in any more detail than that. The only other way to score points is through the Killbox rule (not all scenarios have it), which basically forces your warcaster to be at least 14" from the board edge or your opponent gets 2pts - this is largely a balancing mechanic to help assassinations and stops squishy support based casters from camping at the back of the board. Its probably fair to call them simple, but imo that is a good thing and they blow 40k scenarios out of the water (the same way that the ruleset does as well). A simple, fair and balanced scenario is all you need to set the framework for a good game - the variation come from your list and tactical decisions.

As far as armies go the closest direct equivalent to Eldar is Retribution of Scyrah, who oddly enough are the 'hi tech, dying race of Elves' archetype. Most of their stuff is fast and has good base offensive stats and they have some of the longest threat ranges in the game (both shooting and melee), but they have no multi wound infantry so can drop like flies. Purely from a mobility POV I would have to put Circle Orboros ahead of them (who are kinda like Wood Elves I guess), they have incredible (non linear) threat ranges abilities through Teleports, spells and other special abilities which can also let them Hit and Run better than any other faction. That said the single most import thing in regards to the speed of the army is the caster and the units in the army, for example the base movement of a Skorne heavy is 4", which is a 7" charge, but with 1 buff from one of their casters and one buff from another model you can make that 11" (and that doesn't even factor in less common stuff like Pushes).

Powerguy covered it very well but I would say that scenario play in wm/h is in part stronger due to shorter shooting ranges. Long range is shortened from 48" to 14", which forces the lines to close in and position closer to the middle to be effective. One of the healthiest things a game can do for scenario play is give players a chance to score without always being targets in range of several big guns. Depending on how both players place their models, that can be true in wm/h.

On the topic of mobile factions, I would say the faction that is king of mobility has to be Circle of Orboros. Those druids can outright teleport things around and even have some goood forced movent to wiggle opposing forces a few inches. They are also a bit frail and rely on a narrow range of heavy hitters to crack high armor so their mobility comes at a price
Retribution has a few things that move very quickly conventionally and a little forced movement as well but it is hard to compare with Circle's options. Retribution also tends to field far more infantry and far fewer warjacks than Circle fields warbeasts.

Thanks for the feed back, food for thought.

Scenario play is what the game is balanced around, specifically the Steamroller packet.

If you don't use scenarios you actually break the game because it tosses faction and caster balance out of whack. This game is designed around scenario play. It ensures that assassination isn't the dominant playstyle while also forcing people to commit instead of bricking up.

 Dais wrote:

Powerguy covered it very well but I would say that scenario play in wm/h is in part stronger due to shorter shooting ranges. Long range is shortened from 48" to 14", which forces the lines to close in and position closer to the middle to be effective. One of the healthiest things a game can do for scenario play is give players a chance to score without always being targets in range of several big guns. Depending on how both players place their models, that can be true in wm/h.

This is also a reason that melee is still very important in the game, only one gun in the game has a based range of 20", it can't move and shoot on the same turn, and it can only be taken by one warcaster, who is one of the most limited warcasters in the game in terms of what models he can take.

There are some corner case models/combos who have longer shooting ranges, which usually can only be done once per game. But there are also examples of when models have melee ranges of 24.5".

Though there still are a couple army lists(legion and Retirbution) that can shoot you off the table on turn one.

The mortar also has RNG 20 iirc.

Steamroller is where it is at for most people. Rules are free and give you a number of scenarios. It is also updated every year to keep it balanced.

Other options are also available, many of them from PP.