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The secretive Clan Eshin are masters of obscure sorceries, such as those used to create their infamous Weeping Blades and that ensure there are no remains to be found of their fallen agents. Rarely their agents must utilise these powers directly, most famously during the investigation of the cursed city of Mordheim.

Eshin Sorcerer [Hero] - 75 points

M6 WS4 BS5 S3 T3 W2 I6 A2 Ld8 Type Infantry (Character)

Equipment:
Hand weapon and throwing stars

Special Rules:
Scurry Away!, Sneaky Infiltrators, Verminous Valour, Bamf!

Magic:
An Eshin Sorcerer is a Level 1 wizard who always knows Skitterleap.

Options:
May be upgraded to a Level 2 wizard, generating a single spell from the Lore of Shadows...................... 35 points
May wear Light Armour: ....................................................................................................................+2 points
May take items from the Scavenge Heap
May take up to 50 points of Magic Items or Eshin Tools of War.

Bamf!: By increasing the casting value to 10+, the Eshin Sorcerer can Skitterleap into combat, as if overrunning into a new enemy after a won combat.

for 10 pts more than an engineer, it has a much better statline, lots of nice special rules, access to magic armour, access to shadows (Withering + Wither ? Yes please !)
Oh, and he's also automatically your General unless you field Queek as well

Simply use the one from Storm of Chaos, maybe give him his 2nd level for 35 instead of the printed cost, from the lore of Ruin

Ah, too much? Is this better?

Eshin Sorcerer [Hero] - 75 points

M6 WS4 BS5 S3 T3 W2 I6 A2 Ld8 Type Infantry (Character)

Equipment:
Hand weapon and throwing stars

Special Rules:
Scurry Away!, Sneaky Infiltrators, A Killer not a Leader, Bamf!

Magic:
An Eshin Sorcerer is a Level 1 wizard who always knows Skitterleap.

Options:
May wear Light Armour: ....................................................................................................................+2 points
May take items from the Scavenge Heap
May take up to 50 points of Magic Items or Eshin Tools of War.

Bamf!: By increasing the casting value to 10+, the Eshin Sorcerer can Skitterleap into combat, as if overrunning into a new enemy after a won combat.

A Killer, not a Leader: The Eshin Sorcerer may never be the army's General.

The points were actually based off the Branchwraith, since I don't have the current Skaven book to hand. In comparison, he's got 1 more Movement, BS and Initiative, but 1 less S, T, and A... he has Skaven SRs instead of Forest Spirit SRs, and he has Skitterleap instead of Life Magic.

He should be LD6-7 at best. LD8 for a skaven hero level wizard is too high.

The branchwraith is also really good value for what it brings to the table

 namiel wrote:
He should be LD6-7 at best. LD8 for a skaven hero level wizard is too high.

Aren't Skaven Assassins also Ld8? I know that previously, Eshin units had higher Leadership than their Warlord Clan equivalents because they have to work alone a lot and don't get nearly so much in the way of ranks.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 namiel wrote:
He should be LD6-7 at best. LD8 for a skaven hero level wizard is too high.

Aren't Skaven Assassins also Ld8? I know that previously, Eshin units had higher Leadership than their Warlord Clan equivalents because they have to work alone a lot and don't get nearly so much in the way of ranks.

can an assassin give its LD to the unit? For some reason i thought they couldnt do that

Unit yes, but not the army - Killer, not a Leader is an Assassin rule.

Heh. Give this dude the armour of silvered steel. 2+ armour, and T4. Charge into combat to pin a unit in place, move about, skitterleap into a unit in combat.

I question this. If i remember only warlocks are allowed to know magic outside of the grey seers. The plague kin of clan pestilens are an exception only because they've managed to survive so long. Clan Eshin is needed but have been neutral in wars. So i'm unsure if this sort of thing would cause an uproar among the skaven.

I'm pretty sure this is also pretty much better than assassin for less cost (though some stats are lacking and equipment are lacking). Wizards are normally crappy in the stats department.

I do love the idea of creating new units and stuff but this is really cheap for what it does.

To give you an idea warlocks cost 65 pts without gear for being a level 1 wizard. Necromancers also cost similar. With that kind of stat-line, abilities and wargear the cost is way too good.

I'm also pretty sure 'killer not a leader' is a rule that prevents any unit from using an assassin's leadership. Also assassins have leadership 7. If i remember only a couple things have leadership better than a 7 and that would be rat swarms (being mindless swarms), the vermin lord and queek. Boneripper might also be Ld 10 being a construct though. Named characters i'm not totally sure about.

Hm, he does have pretty good combat skills. I remembered ASsassins being Ld8, but if they're 7, I'll drop it down... and stop detailing Killer, not a Leader, since it's actually in the book.

As far as the fluff is concerned, this is an update to old rules rather than an entirely new concept. Eshin are mostly neutral, but they are also far removed from the other clans and the Council of Thirteen - Eshin makes its home under Far Cathay and are essentially unregulated by the Grey Seers.

Updates: +10 points, -1 BS, -1 Ld.

Eshin Sorcerer [Hero] - 85 points

M6 WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W2 I6 A2 Ld7 Type Infantry (Character)

Equipment:
Hand weapon and throwing stars

Special Rules:
Scurry Away!, Sneaky Infiltrators, A Killer not a Leader, Bamf!

Magic:
An Eshin Sorcerer is a Level 1 wizard who always knows Skitterleap.

Options:
May take items from the Scavenge Heap
May take up to 50 points of Magic Items or Eshin Tools of War.

Bamf!: By increasing the casting value to 10+, the Eshin Sorcerer can Skitterleap into combat, as if overrunning into a new enemy after a won combat.


Unlike the Necromancer, the Eshin Sorcerer is a level 1 wizard who only knows a single, specific spell... apparently, Branchwraiths are silly powerful fighters for a wizard. ^^;

This guy should be a better fighter than other Wizards! He's an Assassin who's trading some combat skill for magic.

Here's how I'd do it:

- first, consider that Assassins are incredibly expensive for what they do. The only time anyone takes one is to get a very specific build, and/or to play point-denial with the Bell.
So. If this character ends up being more efficient than the Assassin, I say: good.

- second, no light armour. No Eshin models have armour of any kind, so it goes against the fluff. More importantly, it lets him take Magic Armour, which opens up too many opportunities for abuse (as thedarkavenger said: Armour of Silvered Steel).

- third, your boosted version of Skitterleap lets you get into combat on Turn 1, which shouldn't be a thing, and it would also let you engage enemy war machines right off the bat, which should also not be a thing.

Here's what I'd do:

Eshin Sorcerer 120pts

WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W2 I7 A3 Ld7

Special Rules: A Killer Not a Leader, Always Strikes First, Dodge (5+), Hidden, Poisoned Attacks

Equipment: extra hand weapon, throwing stars

An Eshin Sorcerer is a level 1 Wizard that knows the spell Skitterleap.
The character may choose to increase the spell's value to 10+. This version of the spell may also effect a unit that the wizard has joined. The unit may be no more than 10 models.

So, he's an Assassin that loses WS and BS has -1 Ward, and gets Skitterleap. So, if -1WS or BS ~ -5pts, and -1 Ward is -15ts, and being a lvl1 Wizard with a fixed spell is ~40pts, he's 15pts cheaper than the Assassin. Which I say is fine.

I like him the way he is. I can stick the 2+ on him, charge him into a flank, move about, and skitterleap him out of there. Maximum douchery!

Exactly. No way is allowing such nonsense a good idea.

Hm.

How about reducing him to 1W and removing the armour? I thought assassins and 'runners got light armour which is why I added it.

1W means he's all offence, as an assassin should be, but can't be used for that kind of silliness because he has no staying power.

Just remove the option for armour.

He's a character, which means he's got at least 2 wounds.

Also, the standard characteristics for a combat Hero character is: Basic Model +2WS +2BS +1S +1T +1W +2I +2A +1Ld. For casters, it's usually just +1S +1T +1W. Stick with that formula.

Skitterleap'ing into combat is just too easily abused. If the boosted version let you target more models, it'd be good, but still restricted. If it had an added effect--maybe like Sniktch's Cloak of Shadows or something--it would be nice, but not just begging to be twisted towards some unforeseen shenanigans.

The simplest thing to do is: downgrade the Assassin and add a Wizard level.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I question this. If i remember only warlocks are allowed to know magic outside of the grey seers. The plague kin of clan pestilens are an exception only because they've managed to survive so long. Clan Eshin is needed but have been neutral in wars. So i'm unsure if this sort of thing would cause an uproar among the skaven.

Mordheim established that Eshin had secretly establish a group of sorcerers whilst in the East and away from the Council's influence. This was further expanded upon in the 6th ed Skaven book's Appendix armies(which also features Mulder beast sorcs) as well as the Storm of Chaos Eshin list. One features in Temple of the Horned Rat and Thanquoul comments about them. They're rumors among the other clans and IIRC the Council is aware of them but doesn't expose or condemn Eshin for them due to their power and importance to the Council.

So they're not just established, they're mentioned in multiple "canon" sources.

This isn't some new fan creation, it's trying to make updated rules for a model that exists and had rules twice in Fantasy before as well as in another GW game.

Warpsolution wrote:
He's a character, which means he's got at least 2 wounds.

Also, the standard characteristics for a combat Hero character is: Basic Model +2WS +2BS +1S +1T +1W +2I +2A +1Ld. For casters, it's usually just +1S +1T +1W. Stick with that formula.

Skitterleap'ing into combat is just too easily abused. If the boosted version let you target more models, it'd be good, but still restricted. If it had an added effect--maybe like Sniktch's Cloak of Shadows or something--it would be nice, but not just begging to be twisted towards some unforeseen shenanigans.

The simplest thing to do is: downgrade the Assassin and add a Wizard level.

I like the new stuff but it screams abuse with skitterleaping in a unit of gutter runners or something in order to take out war machines. In this case they wouldn't have much of a chance to stop it should one unit make it through. Basically artillery would drop turn 1 for the opponent during the skaven's turn. It would be nice to get behind some gunlines though so there's a way around corner castle. Then again ambushing assassins or skitterleap on an assassin or warlord should get you there ok.

In cannon vs cannon wars skaven usually lose but our cannons can kill units and stuff too as well as some monsters. That's not exactly a bad thing though considering we only have night runners for vanguard and gutter runners for scouts and one unit of nightrunners or half of the gutter runner units rounded up for tunneling teams and some ambushers. It might sound like a lot but cavalry is infinitely faster and does vanguard better than night runners. I suppose it's nice having a unit move up though (somebody give giant rats vanguard at least sheesh). The real issue for skaven is it takes at least a couple turns to be able to deal with artillery usually via skitterleap or ambushers. Most people prepare for scouts when you have them and prevent anybody deploying close enough to get in their rear lines or even hurt the war machines. If i could pay points to give jezzails the scout ability it'd be so grand but then people would scream OP and considering the folding fortress with them now they're probably right.

Also i have to ask does this unit include characters for the model restrictions or no?

So...wait. It's too good to be able to teleport a unit? But then it's not too good? What?

Look at the Hand of Gork (or is it Mork?). A whole unit gets teleported a random distance in the direction you chose, facing however which way they like.
This version of Skitterleap makes the distance indefinite, but limits the number of models to 10, and limits the target to the unit the caster is in, rather than any unit in range.

Could you use it to Bamf! some 'Runners into sling-range? Of course. But if your opponent knows you have that spell, they can set up so that you can't fit your unit of 9 Gutter Runners and the Sorcerer anywhere near their artillery; 10 Skirmishers take up a decent chunk of real estate.
And if you did manage it, I imagine it would be pretty easy for your opponent to counter the move with magic missiles, small arms fire, or a charge. So you're trading one war machine for almost 300pts of war machine hunters.

If their back fields are open enough for your unit by turn 3 or so, you might as well have deployed them as Sneaky Infiltrators, and saved yourself the extra 120pts of the Sorcerer.

What this would really let you do is Bamf! into some out-of-the-way position, harry the enemy, and then Bamf! again when they try to catch you. It's not a hammer. It's a scalpel.

The unit is 10 models or less, minus the character. That way, he can join minimum-sized units of Night Runners, too.

Also, for the record, Scouting-Jezzail teams would not be OP. With a 36" range, they don't need to Scout.
And the Folding Fortress gimmick isn't all it's cracked up to be. 36" range S6 attacks are cool, but at BS3 and 20pts each, compare them to an equal number of points of, say, Peasant Bowmen. Jezzails chew through armour like nobody's business. But against a huge Zombie bus, you're starting to wish you spent those 20pts/model on anything else instead.

Wait, wait! I got it! Use Bamf! to teleport some jezzails into a building. How awesome would that be? Then when an enemy becomes a threat to them just bamf them to another building!

Course that sounds even more powerful. That said you give up a turn of shooting to do it but it's still pretty potent.

-----------

I meant it's good but it might scream abuse. I dunno i'm unsure. Whether this spell can be OP depends on all the ways you can use it. I'm just saying it might throw out some really ridiculous stuff. Most of the skaven's most damaging units are fairly fragile (with the exception of our rare choices). It might give more use for poisoned wind globadiers but i'm still sorta unsure. The jezzails and globadiers and whatever else comes next might be useful (keep in mind if you equip the eshin sorceror with some good magic resistance that'll just make it that much better since they'll be hard to shoot, hard to throw magic at and combat may be hard to enter if you're running all over the board).

Yeah i'm pretty unsure because this could be hard to face. I mean how much damage could this unit do if you went from building to building or behind walls or in forests or similar. Don't get me wrong it probably won't do much to a gun-line but considering you can go anywhere at any time it can get really annoying to face if you don't have magic or shooting. Then there's the deal with the gutter runners 6+ ward save and if the eshin sorceror has magic resistance 3 on an amulet they'll all get a 3+ ward save against all magic and they'll be jumping from hard cover to hard cover. If that wasn't enough when they finally do face melee you can just have a gutter runner champion with smoke bombs and smash them if an enemy beats you in combat (though at that point it'd probably be a waste).

-----------

I guess i just keep repeating myself now. I suppose you just have to consider what this Bamf! thing would do. The O&G one is good sure as is van hal's danse macabre allowing an 8" move for a unit or anybody in a certain range but this is anywhere on the board. I suppose somebody could just ruin your casting and that would end the really potent nature of this. In that case using it to maybe set up jezzails in a building is the best approach then.

Huh.

I wrote Bamf! under the impression that Skitterleap could still only be used to move a single character around. That said, these tactics aren't anything a regular mage with Skitterleap couldn't do since all Bamf! does is let him finish his teleport in combat.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I meant it's good but it might scream abuse. I dunno i'm unsure...Whether this spell can be OP depends on all the ways you can use it...Yeah i'm pretty unsure because this could be hard to face. I mean how much damage could this unit do if you went from building to building or behind walls or in forests or similar...it can get really annoying to face if you don't have magic or shooting...I guess i just keep repeating myself now. I suppose you just have to consider what this Bamf! thing would do. The O&G one is good sure as is van hal's danse macabre allowing an 8" move for a unit or anybody in a certain range but this is anywhere on the board. I suppose somebody could just ruin your casting and that would end the really potent nature of this. In that case using it to maybe set up jezzails in a building is the best approach then.

These walls of text without a clear point get hard to read, not going to lie. Editing is always a good idea.
I assure you, I've considered what the ability to teleport 10 models could do. That's, uh, what I do before I type it on here. Could I have missed that one sick combo? Sure. But is the whole idea hopelessly bent? Don't be silly.
What else could 3 Power Dice do? Scorch. Plague. Wither + Warp Lightning. Is this better than those? Actually look at what else you can do for the cost.

This doesn't "scream abuse". Being able to teleport a model directly into close combat, on the other hand, is so good that it's either going to be broken or the model will be so expensive and/or watered-down that no one would use it.
Being able to teleport a unit of M6 Skirmishers is nice, but it's not something you'll need to do very often.
And Skitterleap on Jezzails? That would be awful. So, I can either shoot and then stand and shoot, or I can use 3+ Power Dice for the chance to get away...and not shoot this turn. No thanks! And just using it to get them into a building? That's 120pts for a -2 to shoot. Jezzails are already overpriced. No one would bother doing that. Utter waste.
Don't even tell me that the Hand and the Danse are in the same category as this. 10 Gutter Runners cause about 5 wounds on T3 models without armour. Ever seen what a teleported unit of 9 Trolls on your flank does? Or 40 Savage Big 'Uns? This is an entirely different sort of spell.

BUT. Again. There are other options. Just not "teleport right into combat.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I wrote Bamf! under the impression that Skitterleap could still only be used to move a single character around. That said, these tactics aren't anything a regular mage with Skitterleap couldn't do since all Bamf! does is let him finish his teleport in combat.

Skitterleap can only target a character model. I was suggesting that, instead of the boosted version allowing the Wizard to get into combat, that it allow him to bring his unit along with him, too.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
...these tactics aren't anything a regular mage with Skitterleap couldn't do since all Bamf! does is let him finish his teleport in combat.

Not sure what you mean.

Whatever i guess all my points are dumb or just keep getting denied. I probably shouldn't even try to come up with any tactics from now on since they all just backfire or something. I was just trying to figure something out. It's not like i spent the last 3 hours figuring out tactics in my head.

As far as my walls of text yeah i get that a lot. Sorry if it's such an eyesore for you.

Perhaps the eshin sorceror would do better just teleporting the jezzails into a building first turn and that's it. Sure it isn't great but i mean all cavalry units have to get off their mounts, there's no charge bonus, you get heavy cover from the building and you can get magic resistance to the eshin sorceror. Sure you opt out of shooting for a turn but buildings are a pain against BS shooters (exception being freaking trueflight arrows). Each jezzail has two attacks and to my knowledge count as one model each.

It's not the best thing ever but maybe it'll do something. I dunno.

The main issue with that is that you're paying 120pts+ for the upgrade. Which means the unit needs to be pretty big for that to be worthwhile. And it's still a very fragile unit for it's cost. Maybe not against BS-based shooting or magic, but artillery and combat.
And then you add on the fact that Jezzails are just too expensive for what they do in the first place. I've used them in the past as shooty chaff in units of 3, but any more than that, and they become a big, awkward, fragile unit that still doesn't do much for it's points.