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Greetings!

I've been challenged to a match this weekend by a bloke who wants to test out his list for a tournament. He's running Ultramarines and I'm fairly certain he'll include Calgar, otherwise I don't know much else about his army - He may have a small attachment of White Scars Bikers also, based on a recent conversation. The point limit is 1850 and he specifically asked for a match against my Craftworld Eldar. Below is the list I've compiled.

Craftworld Ghlacius
Eldar 1850 Pt list:

HQ:
Avatar of Khaine
/w Crushing Blow
/w Fast Shot




Warlock Council
/w 2 Warlocks


Elites:

Fire Dragons x 10
/w +5 Fire Dragons
/w Fire Dragon Exarch
/w Fast Shot
/w Iron Resolve


Fire Dragons x 10
/w +5 Fire Dragons
/w Fire Dragon Exarch
/w Fast Shot
/w Iron Resolve



^Wave Serpent
/w Shuriken Cannon
/w Scatter Laser
/w Holofields


Troops:
Storm Guardians x 10
/w Flamer

Storm Guardians x 10
/w Flamer


Dire Avengers x 10
/w Dire Avenger Exarch
/w Power Sword & Shimmershield



Rangers x 10


Rangers x 5


Heavy Support:

Fire Prism
/w Shuriken Cannon
/w Holofields


Wraithknight
/w Scatter Laser


Grand Total: 1850


This will be my first game running an Avatar [I made him from the Durthu treeman model, so I'm proud to show him off!] so I wanted to know if I kitted him out correctly. The Warlocks will go with the Storm Guardians, and I added a 5-man squad of rangers to the mix for another scoring unit.

Any suggestions?

Well, it's certainly different from any tournament list I've seen - if he's expecting the standard serpent-spam from you he'll be really surprised. Before he rolls over you.

Two units of 10 Fire Dragons, but only one gets a transport? You'll not get to pick targets with the foot-slogging unit, and have to rely on him to drive his Land Raider (if he even brings one) straight at them. And full units? There is such a thing as overkill - if it's not a Superheavy it's dead after 6, the other 5 should only be insurance against terrible dice rolls. Plus you'd struggle to unload 10 FD's into Melta range without being bunched-up-template-fodder.

Storm Guardians? You'd rather an extra S3 AP- attack that misses half the time (WS4) than an extra S4, pseudo-rending ranged attack that hits 2/3rds of the time? Add in Overwatch and the Catapult is clearly better. The only reason to take Storms is the specials, but you've only taken one each? And no transport so, again, good luck getting those flamers into range.

Rangers? Low damage output, and against SM there won't be the targets they shine against (MC's). A single Drop Podded flamer will wipe out your back-field scoring unit.

The Shuricannon on the Prism is a waste - you should be further away, shooting at targets the Shuricannon isn't optimised against.

The Scatter Laser is equally pointless on the WK - it can only shoot two weapons as a MC.

I apologise that the above is pretty negative, so I'll try and offer some constructive suggestions without starting from scratch:
Split the Fire Dragons into three squads of 5 or 6, load into Wave Serpents equipped as in your list.
Add a second flamer to each Storm Guardian unit, flank the Avatar to gain Fearless and deal with hordes (which the Avatar can struggle against if they can't be Swept).
Drop the Shuricannon on the Prism, the Scatter Laser on the WK and as many Rangers as needed to afford the extra two Wave Serpents for the FD's.

Oh, and your Treeman-Avatar sounds awesome!

Crushing Blow is very good, but its really going to come into play most against Walkers and Monsterous Creatures, where that extra point of strength can really help mitigate the nerf to smash. That said. Disarming Strike is a very good power for the Avatar in close combat against infantry. Especially durable opponents- like the special snowflake 3++ 4 wound eternal warrior chapter masters. Knocking the Thunder Hammer out of their hand can do a lot to even the odds and keep your Avatar in the Fight.

I also agree that more Wave Serpents would help you. Its not so much that Wave Serpents are the most competitive, its that most of your infantry selections benefit immensely from a ride. I used to play a lot with Storm Guardians in the Old Eldar book, back in the days when Guardians and Vehicles were Bs3, and Bladestorm just meant Dire Avengers could fire an extra shot. Storm Guardians have fallen quite low since then. Their main competition, Guardian Defenders, got more accurate with improved guns. And with the addition of hull points and only being able to disembark if the transport moved 6 inches (it used to be 12) the tried and true strategy of tank shocking enemies into a clump, and then hammering them with Templates (used to be able to get 3, 2 from the Storms, one from the attached Destructor Warlock) simultaneously became harder to pull off and less rewarding when it is done right. My poor Storm Guardians just don't see much play in the new book, which is sad because they really were an MVP Troop for me in the old book and the old rules. All in all the best troop we have on "foot" are guardian Jetbikes for their speed and flexibility in grabbing objectives, but if you want to take advantage of the Avatar's Fearless Bubble Defenders with Heavy Weapons give you a great mix of short range dakka, and can contribute from a distance with their move and shoot heavy weapons.

I also agree that you are over killing with the Fire Dragon Squads. I've never really wanted more than 5, especially when you have a fast shot exarch involved. And they really benefit from having serpents get them into position more than any other unit in the book.

I'll take some gak for this, but I personally prefer the Falcon to the Fire Prism. In most situations I'd rather have the 3 s8 ap2 shots instead of the single but more versatile prism cannon. Against vehicles having the extra shots helps mitigate the effects of missing the lance, against Terminators smart opponents will make use of 2 inch coherency mitigating the ap2 blast, and we have better options for mowing down hordes than a large prism blast. I also like the Transport Capacity, and will often cart about a squad of Rangers or something. ymmv. I'm definitely in the minority with this opinion.

Thank you for the input! I must clarify I only have one Wave Serpent in my collection. I never got around to purchasing another one, nor have I had a chance to snag any wraithguard with D-scythes, so that option is out.

Here's my revised list:

Craftworld Ghlacius
Eldar 1850 Pt list: Using Iyanden Supplement

HQ:
Avatar of Khaine
/w Disarming Strike
/w Fast Shot


Spiritseer [Goes with Axe Wraithblades]
/w Guardian Helm
/w Wraithforge Stone


Warlock Council
/w 2 Warlocks


Elites:

Fire Dragons x 5
/w Fire Dragon Exarch
/w Fast Shot
/w Iron Resolve

^Wave Serpent
/w Shuriken Cannon
/w Scatter Laser
/w Holofields

Troops:
Guardians
/w Starcannon


Guardians
/w Starcannon


Dire Avengers
/w +5 Dire Avengers
/w Dire Avenger Exarch
/w Power Sword & Shimmershield


Wraithblades



Wraithblades
/w Axes & Shields



Heavy Support:

Fire Prism
/w Holofields


Wraithknight


Grand Total: 1780

I've got 70 points left to spend on something. Should I spend it on more vehicle upgrades or...?

Upgrades on dire avengers are complete trash.

I would drop those and warlocks and with extra points I would get another wave serpent for some wraith guard.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Upgrades on dire avengers are complete trash.

I would drop those and warlocks and with extra points I would get another wave serpent for some wraith guard.

He said he only had one wave serpent

 hiveof_chimera wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Upgrades on dire avengers are complete trash.

I would drop those and warlocks and with extra points I would get another wave serpent for some wraith guard.

He said he only had one wave serpent

Fireprism/falcon/nightspinner can all be proxied as wave serpents in friendly games.

Buy more wave serpents... (they aren't expensive on ebay, I think I have about 6-7 now...)

I actually agree about the Fire Prism to an extent. Still, having access to AP1 S10 Lance against AV14 is useful.