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Hello, I just recently picked up the Loyalist Codex and have been pondering how to utilize it best with my mostly shelved CSM models.

I have lots of standard marines, raptors, and havocs to make tacticals, Assault squads, and devastators.

And despite the old claim that the SM book is better used for representing Legions, I cannot find any related articles or discussions on doing so.

Anyone know of good Counts-as lists or ideas?

Imperial Fists tactics = Iron Warriors
Raven Guard Tactics = Night Lords
Iron Hands Tactics = Death Guard
UM = Black Legion (generics)
Black Templars = Word Bearers (really doesn't)

Dark Angels = Malal Marines (anti-chaos)
Grey Knights = Thousand Sons (psykers and super-tough Termies like the 3rd Ed Codex had)
Space Wolf = World Eaters (Blood Claws as Beserkers, TWC as Juggernauts, TW Lord as Juggerlord)
BA Death Company list = World Eaters (DC for Beserkers, DCD for Dreadnought, Assault Marines for troops)
BA with lots of Chaplains = Word Bearers (not really)


Its not a great match in most cases. In most cases they are abstractions and loopholes used to make a more competitive army than Chaos Codex is. Honestly, the CSM Codex does all the Legions pretty well in general terms.

Black Legion = lots of PA and TDA bodies, Chosen, led by Abaddon or use supplement.
Emperor's Children = Lucius or Slaanesh Lord, Noise Marines or Slaanesh Tacticals
Night Lords = Raptors, Heldrake, Warp Talons
Iron Warriors = Warpsmith, helbrutes, Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, Heldrake, Tanks, Defiler, Obliterators, (the melee version of Oblits?), Beserkers (Iron Beserkers) and Termies.
Word Bearers = Dark Apostle and cultists, Possessed, Possessed vehicles, anything really.
Alpha Legion = Cultists and anything really. Alpha Legion can be any Codex. Use Ahriman or Huron for infiltration.
Thousand Sons = Ahriman or Tzeentch Sorceror and TSons troops, or Tzeentch Tacticals
Death Guard 1 = Typhus or Nurgle Lord, Plague Marine Troops or Nurgle Tacticals
Death Guard 2 = Typhus and Plague Zombies
World Eaters = Kharn or Khorne Lord, Khorne Beserker Troops or Tacticals with MoK and CCW, Termies with MoK, Raptors with MoK, DP with AoBF

 Deadshot wrote:
Alpha Legion = Cultists and anything really. Alpha Legion can be any Codex. Use Ahriman or Huron for infiltration.

I didn't realize Ahriman and Huron were part of the Alpha Legion. If you're going to resort to counts-as why not use a better codex?

I think it's a fallacy to say that it represents them better. A more accurate phrase would be that neither does a particularly good job, but the Loyalists give a few more playstyles and slightly 'cleaner' mechanics if you are that way inclined.
ATSKNF is a wash in fluffiness really; some will say that it's the defining Loyalist ability, others that the Eye should harden you to such horrors. Similarly Combat Squads and Chapter Tactics aren't really unfluffy, they are simply there to help. On the other hand, Champion of Chaos is certainly something that doesn't apply to all Legionaries; Even if you want to say that they all want blessings, not all of them are going to declare Challenges against that Hive Tyrant for the opportunity.
Lose Daemonic and IA13 Allies, gain AM and the various sub-books. Before IA13 I'd say this was a wash as well, but since then it's hard to argue that the loyalist Guard book is better at representing traitors than the actual Traitor Guard book. (I appreciate the fact that I'm arguing for Loyalists over Chaos books here for the Marines).

Ultimately it's just down to preference. Are your Night Lords going to want Army-Wide Fear? Either Charcharadons or Crimson Slaughter can help you there; one gives Marks and Obliterators and Spawn and Dirge Casters, the other gives Drop Pods and Orbital Strikes and Teleport Homers. Chaos gives you Zombies and 'rush' templates, Loyalists gives you Bikers and Scouts and flierspam.
Of course the Chaos book is the 'proper' way to do it and likely better for your opponent to deal with, but if I were to sink the time and money into an army, I'd take the one that gives a more rewarding player experience *for me* and trust that my opponent can keep up with what is what.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Alpha Legion = Cultists and anything really. Alpha Legion can be any Codex. Use Ahriman or Huron for infiltration.

I didn't realize Ahriman and Huron were part of the Alpha Legion. If you're going to resort to counts-as why not use a better codex?

That's the point of count-as. It's not Huron and Ahriman. Its an Alpha Legionaire who is also a master psyker or a minor psyker with a familiar, an Axe and a Flame-Claw thing. How is using the regular Codex better? You do realise Alpha Legion are Chaos right? With mutations and Daemons and Daemon Engines?

Get a look on the new IA 13. You'll probably want to stick with the CSM codex

 Deadshot wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Alpha Legion = Cultists and anything really. Alpha Legion can be any Codex. Use Ahriman or Huron for infiltration.

I didn't realize Ahriman and Huron were part of the Alpha Legion. If you're going to resort to counts-as why not use a better codex?

That's the point of count-as. It's not Huron and Ahriman. Its an Alpha Legionaire who is also a master psyker or a minor psyker with a familiar, an Axe and a Flame-Claw thing. How is using the regular Codex better? You do realise Alpha Legion are Chaos right? With mutations and Daemons and Daemon Engines?

Cultists, zombies, mutants seem to better represent the Word Bearers use of fanatical mortal combatants. They use them as distractions and cannon fodder.

Alpha Legion use their cultists to accomplish things. I think AM/IG is a much better match for Alphalegion.

And while Alpha Legion are Chaos, they opperate outside the eye of terror. They have no daemon worlds spewing out Daemon engines. They opperate in realspace in other parts of the galaxy mostly with traitorous elements but not with Daemonic ones.

 Exergy wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Alpha Legion = Cultists and anything really. Alpha Legion can be any Codex. Use Ahriman or Huron for infiltration.

I didn't realize Ahriman and Huron were part of the Alpha Legion. If you're going to resort to counts-as why not use a better codex?

That's the point of count-as. It's not Huron and Ahriman. Its an Alpha Legionaire who is also a master psyker or a minor psyker with a familiar, an Axe and a Flame-Claw thing. How is using the regular Codex better? You do realise Alpha Legion are Chaos right? With mutations and Daemons and Daemon Engines?

Cultists, zombies, mutants seem to better represent the Word Bearers use of fanatical mortal combatants. They use them as distractions and cannon fodder.

Alpha Legion use their cultists to accomplish things. I think AM/IG is a much better match for Alphalegion.

And while Alpha Legion are Chaos, they opperate outside the eye of terror. They have no daemon worlds spewing out Daemon engines. They opperate in realspace in other parts of the galaxy mostly with traitorous elements but not with Daemonic ones.

Alpha Legion utilise their cultists to accomplish things. Like setting up a secret cult large enough to summon forth daemonic allies. Infiltrate Astartes chapters or IG regiments. Or building daemon engines. Alpha Legion do everything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And besides, my main point was to use Ahriman or Huron as a Count-as AL character due to their Warlord Trait (infiltrate D3 units).