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2014/10/31 01:47:12
Subject: Bonkers in Honkers - Titan's Bastards head to FACUP GT 2014 [All Games Completed]
So this weekend I will be heading to my first GT here in Hong Kong, the Fun Atelier Cup Grand Tournament. Deodorant is in ample supply, and fresh clothes will be the order of the each day. Possible beard trimming yet to be decided.
Format is five games over two days, playing all the Eternal War missions except relic. Point value of 1750, all rules valid except FW and Apocalypse. Prizes for Overall champion, 1st / 2nd / 3rd Overall Points, plus Head Taker (most character points), Best Painted and Best Story. Overall Champ is decided on a cumulative score of all the above.
I will be taking the Titan's Bastards SM who served me well in the warm up game and previous Neophyte 2014 tournament, but padded out with some more LotD Allies. As you will see from the below list, this is definitely a sub-optimal list for SM at a tournament - original plan was to field 7 x LotD units with Salamanders, but I just didn't have the time to get the models painted so have had to rationalize my choices somewhat.
However, that doesn't really matter - I am not looking to win, just have a good time, make some new friends and maybe not get tabled every game. If I can come out of this not bottom of the pile and maybe with a win under my belt I will be happy
OK, so the list I am taking...
THE CONTENDERS
Iapedus’ Space Marines: The Titan's Bastards Chapter (Imperial Fists C.T.) 1750pts
DEV squad – 2x LC, 2x ML Sternguard – 8 man, 4 x Combi-plasma, DP (joined by Libby in Term. Armour)
Dreadnought – TLAC x 2
Landspeeder – MM x 2
Aegis Defence Line - Icarus LC
Legion of the Damned Allies Detachment
Legion of the Damned – 5 man, MM, MG, Combi-melta
Legion of the Damned – 5 man, MM, MG, Combi-melta
Legion of the Damned – 5 man, PC, PG, Combi-plasma
Legion of the Damned – 5 man, PC, PG, Combi-plasma
Ok well first things first, the tournament is now over and I have to say I had a great time - very tiring (especially the 3 games on day one) but overall it was a great event and most players got into the spirit of things and had a great time. A big thank you has to go out to Eric & the other TO's who ran the event from Fun Atelier, well done guys
I will be trying to write an overview of all the games I played and will get them up when I can. but for now we will start with some photos of the other contenders.....
THE OPPOSITION
Spoiler:
As expected, quite an Imperium heavy contingent of armies, but just enough filthy xenos lists in there to keep it interesting.
ARMY 1 - CHAOS Very nicely painted chaos army
ARMY 2 - SPACE MARINES - White Scars Nicely painted SM bike army, but symptomatic of a wider problem at the GT - no proxying allowed, yet these guys were playing as white scars when clearly ultramarines and Black Templars. In this case its fairly debatable as there were no named characters present and you can argue they were successors or something, but still slightly dubious.
ARMY 3 - TYRANIDS Only Tyranid List of the day (considered much nerfed in these parts, obviously haven't been reading jy2's posts on the subject) but mean looking none the less.
ARMY 4 - GREY KNIGHTS My game 1 opponent, very nice Grey Knights playing as some kind of fluffy 'Dark Knights', hence the Dreadknights proxied by chaos thingymajigs (answers on a postcard please....)
ARMY 5 - CHAOS Really nice chaos list, customized to the point where I couldn't tell what they were - I think the frog like things in front were spawn?
ARMY 6 - SPACE MARINES - Sons of Fenris Nice space wolves supplement list from a player who was very friendly to all, but again more proxying - the long fangs are 10x PC, proxied as 10x LC, termies are armless but really SS, TWC are headless, knight seems to have lost half his hittable mass in his shoulder pads, and all are clearly Black Templar (although again debatable on the fluff).
ARMY 7 - TAU Only Tau of the day, maybe next year I will enter mine to try and bump up their numbers
ARMY 8 - SPACE MARINES -Ultramarines Mr regular sparring partner,Neophyte2012, and his improved ultramarines, this time with more drop pods! As it turned out, my game 5 opponent.
ARMY 9 - IMPERIAL GUARD Tank! Tanks! TAAAAAAANKS!
ARMY 10 - ORKS Well painted Mech heavy Ork list
ARMY 11 - SPACE MARINES - Imperial Fists Nicely painted IF Army (Except the Cents & Chaplain of course) also no idea what the tank on the far right is - anyone?
ARMY 12 - ELDAR A terrible thing happened in this chaps first game - someone bumped his table and the titan fell off and smashed to pieces (this picture is after repairs). Not a nice thing to happen, but then I remembered that he had bought a 900 point near invincible unit as part of a Eldar power list to the tournament, and sort of lost sympathy (as did many others.....)
ARMY 13 - KNIGHTS Knights with SM allies
ARMY 14 - CHAOS A daemon factory list, and the subject of much controversy on the second day (which I will deal with later in day two write up)
ARMY 15 - SPACE MARINES - Blood Angels New codex arriving just too late for this guy....
ARMY 16 - ORKS Another top notch painted army, this time traditional brush, and heavily customized in the best orkish traditions. My game 3 opponent.
ARMY 17 - SPACE MARINES - Salamanders Really top notch airbrushed SM army with Knight, my game 2 opponent
ARMY 18 - IMPERIAL GUARD Immaculately airbrushed tank force.
With one list I didn't manage to get a photo of (but my game 4 opponent) and my guys made it 20 lists in total. Quite a few no shows meant that the numbers were lower than predicted, so for those of you who voted that I would end up in the bottom 30 I say a well humoured ha! Trumped by default!
Ahhhh default - the two sweetest words in the English language......
If in doubt, frag it out...
Fight spam with spam, cheese with cheese, and fluff with a razor sharp sense of the appropriate
Some really interesting armies! Looking forward to the Battle Reports!
2 Things though, was the bump of the table deliberate vs the Eldar player? His list is as close to being a d**k as you can get.
As for the BT proxying as SW a lot of people are doing that for 2 reasons. The first is that the BT chapter tactics are horrible and your loadouts are very similar to SW so it works pretty good.
2014/11/03 17:06:15
Subject: Re:Bonkers in Honkers - Titan's Bastards head to FA GT 2014
Incognito15 wrote: Some really interesting armies! Looking forward to the Battle Reports!
2 Things though, was the bump of the table deliberate vs the Eldar player? His list is as close to being a d**k as you can get.
As for the BT proxying as SW a lot of people are doing that for 2 reasons. The first is that the BT chapter tactics are horrible and your loadouts are very similar to SW so it works pretty good.
I'll get the reports up as soon as I can It was actually a first game accident, before anyone realized how truly gakky this list was.
And it got tougher too - I will have to double check with someone who played this list, but I think the way it set up was to sit the Titan on top of the Skyshield Landing Pad, giving it a 4+ invulnerable save on all shots, after which a 4+ Holo-field roll (because the Titan Holo-field is not a 'save') and then, if by some miracle you manage to hit it, you get to roll on AP12 and try to get through 9 hull points (further buffed by the Invincible Behemoth rule, meaning wreck or explode results only do D3 hit points). And all this time it is destroying three of your units a turn with this one model alone, never mind what the other 750 points of army are doing
The only list that managed to beat it got rule lawyered by the Eldar player the following day and had the result turned into a draw - I will go more into this 'unsavoury incident' later...
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/11/04 06:38:10
If in doubt, frag it out...
Fight spam with spam, cheese with cheese, and fluff with a razor sharp sense of the appropriate
Titan player sounds salty that his 'unbeatable' set up was beaten. It's legit as far as RAW goes, but RAI it's not. Can you imagine a Skyshield Landing Pad have a massive cone-shaped shield to accomodate the Revenant? Lol.
Tbf this is the reason why I don't like LoW in regular 40k games, and I use armies that have access to two very good LoW, Dark Eldar (Revenant) and Tyranids (Harridan/Hierophant). Occassionally Necrons too (Transcedent C'Tan).
Decent of the person who 'bumped' the table. Ain't got no time for that . Nids look nice though (obviously looking through the Alien tinted glasses )
Voted top 5 as I love Sweet and Sour. Your army is very nicely painted too
YMDC = nightmare
2014/11/04 04:01:07
Subject: Bonkers in Honkers - Titan's Bastards head to FA GT 2014
What was the controversy surrounding the summoning army? and really? only one Nids player and one Daemons player? there were what 3 or 4 daemons or csm lists in the top 16 at NOVA?
"Backfield? I have no backfield."
2014/11/04 06:35:43
Subject: Bonkers in Honkers - Titan's Bastards head to FA GT 2014
Being only AV 12 makes it actually killable against mass high strength shooting (to bypass that double shield thing), and I think it could be taken out in close combat, though with 36" mvt it was kind of impossible to reach it.
2014/11/04 07:11:33
Subject: Bonkers in Honkers - Titan's Bastards head to FA GT 2014
XC18 wrote: Being only AV 12 makes it actually killable against mass high strength shooting (to bypass that double shield thing), and I think it could be taken out in close combat, though with 36" mvt it was kind of impossible to reach it.
If it moves off the skyshield to not get assaulted then it loses a 4++ invul save and i think thats pretty good. Also if its standing on that skyshield then it has a 4++ invul and its holofield to stop any hits on a 4+. Basically you need 4x the amount of shooting it would take to knock off 9 AV12 HPs
2014/11/04 07:49:11
Subject: Bonkers in Honkers - Titan's Bastards head to FA GT 2014
Frozocrone wrote:Voted top 5 as I love Sweet and Sour. Your army is very nicely painted too
Very kind, thank you - they look much better in low res photos than real life It was a bit of a rush to get enough LotD painted for the tourney but now I have more time I'm going to swell the ranks a little with better painted figures and maybe try my hand at some green stuff.
astro_nomicon wrote:What was the controversy surrounding the summoning army? and really? only one Nids player and one Daemons player? there were what 3 or 4 daemons or csm lists in the top 16 at NOVA?
Im afraid I only got the basic gist of it as it was mostly debated in Cantonese (of which I am not a fluent speaker ) but it essentially revolved around a blessing being cast on the same unit twice. The power in question was a daemon power which infers some kind of cumulative invulnerable save on units within 6" of the psyker (Chaos players will have to fill me in as to which one). Anyway he had cast it from two different psykers to buff multiple units in between them repeatedly, but as was pointed out the next day a particular blessing can only effect one unit once per turn. It was a genuine mistake by the player, and none of his three opponents picked up on the fact that it was wrong during the games.
In my book, than makes both sides equally responsible and the results should have stood. I've played plenty of games where mistakes in my interpretation or my opponents have had an impact on the game, but I have never demanded a reversal of the result. My attitude is that if I didn't pick up on it its my fault for not knowing. Simple.
XC18 wrote:Being only AV 12 makes it actually killable against mass high strength shooting (to bypass that double shield thing), and I think it could be taken out in close combat, though with 36" mvt it was kind of impossible to reach it.
I'm thinking a Tau FBSC with 3x3 HYMP missilesides? Would only work if I got first turn though, otherwise he would autokill two units with the titan and have everything else after the remainder. Also, with 3 x 3 missilesides, would my list in fact be any be any less OP?
I don't really want to derail this batrep with Titan debate though, so have started a thread in the tactics section - feel free to direct your Titan related thoughts there
If in doubt, frag it out...
Fight spam with spam, cheese with cheese, and fluff with a razor sharp sense of the appropriate
Oh yeah. Can't benefit from Cursed Earth multiple times (no matter how bad I wish I could ) It kind of frustrates that the GK equivalent, Banishment, specifically says that multiples stack (so he could take a 3++ save and make it a 6++) but Cursed Earth doesn't. Then again, Banishment only affects one squad, and Cursed Earth is a 12" bubble around the psyker, and I'm just dreaming, AND it would probably be OP. But when a Revanant does the cheese shuffle on a skyshield I think it should stack
"Backfield? I have no backfield."
2014/11/05 10:54:51
Subject: Re:Bonkers in Honkers - Titan's Bastards head to FA GT 2014 [Game 1 Completed]
Mission: Emperors Will
Deployment: Random - Dawn of War
Game Length: Variable (2.5 hrs. time limit)
Terrain: Pre-set
Going first: Me!
Initially I thought this game was going to be a tough match up for me, having never played against Grey Knights before and not really knowing what to expect beyond a lot of warp charge points and pain. As a result I’m not sure exactly what it was I was up against as I lost the list, but it was basically two units of terminator knight type thingy dudes (that is the technical name for them I believe), one with Draigo and the other with another character who’s name evades me, and of course three Dreadknights (I will update the list when I find it).
My strategic approach to all the games in the GT will be in keeping with the theme of my list - the desperate remnants of a Marine task force are dug in behind their defence line, the Devasators, Warlord and lonely Dreadnought ready to deal death until the bitter end, with the scouts out doing what they do best - looking for enemy movement and harassing their advance. Once the battle is met, the plucky defenders will hang on as long as they can while their own reinforcements arrive in the Sternguard, Libby and Land speeder, backed up by the mysterious Legionnaires answering their desperate prayers for salvation.....
'Eeeeek! I think it saw us!'
The sparse terrain slightly favours me, and makes me glad that I decided to fork out on the Aegis Line, even if I will have no use for the Icarus LC this game. I go first and my opponent fails to seize. My Tournament gets off to a bad start though - I attempt to alpha strike one of his Dreadknights with my Sternguard & Libby, and promptly scatter 12" in the only direction that will have me off the table. Mishap roll hands my opponent the option of where to put it, and it ends up way in the back corner, effectively out of the game :(
'The grass on this world is really, REALLY green...'
First round of shooting from me does nothing, and the turn is over. His turn, and everything moves forward. Dreadknights take care of the two units of scouts in the central ruins with their shooting, and they force my third unit of sniper scouts to ground in the crater. First blood to my opponent.
'Long old poke from here boys!'
Turn 2 and three of my LotD squads come in. If the majority of his force gets across the board to my deployment zone it will be all over, so I decide to try and tie his units back in his zone and sacrifice the three LotD squads to the cause (sorry flaming heavy space metal band dudes!). I drop them in nice and close, and shooting removes two terminators and puts a couple of wounds on a Dreadknight, but that’s about it from my guys.
'We fear nothing! Except maybe hot baths and pop music!'
He takes the bait and goes after the LotD with the majority of his forces. The legionaries survive shooting and combat fairly intact, tying up his troops for a crucial turn. However, two Dreadknights use their teleporter engines to go after my objective!
'Yaaaarg! It did see us! Ahhhhhhhhh!'
Turn 3, and my remaining reserves come in. The plasma LotD squad land near my Aegis Line and help the DEV squad and Dread take out the two Dreadknights (phew!), effectively ending the threat to my objective. Sternies continue the long march towards his objective. His turn, and combat continues - one unit of LotD get wiped, but the other two make a huge string of 3+ saves to remain in the fight and lock up his remaining Dreadknight and unit of terminators for another turn. The free unit of Termies back away from my approaching sternies and their plasma goodies.
"Boom! Your welcome boyos!'
'*wheeze* You try running in tactical dreadnaught armour!'
Turn 4, and my speeder pilot notices that the enemy have backed off from the sternguard's approach so much they seem to have abandoned their objective, so he gets in position for a sneaky attempt at grabbing it next turn. Another unit of LotD buys the farm, but one remains intact. He cannot resist the temptation and charges everything he has left, with predictable results......
' He he he! It’s just like hid and seek! But with guns.'
'Lads, this is gonna hurt…..'
Turn 5
I make a cheeky grab for his objective, but he realises what I am up to and used Gate of Infinity to warp his Terminator squad onto his objective and destroy my Landspeeder in the process (not last turn photos I'm afraid, as we were too busy picking up the bits of the adjacent tables Revenant Titan which too a nose dive off the table).
With time almost up, we end the game both holding our own objectives, my opponent taking First Blood and my Sternguard having covered just enough ground to take Linebreaker
RESULT:
Spoiler:
TITAN'S BASTARDS 4:4 GREY KNIGHTS
A DRAW!
Having only managed to kill 5 of his models all game, I was very happy to have managed a draw against such tough opposition. Apart from the gaff with the drop pod, I think tactically I played it right, trying to tie his guys back in his DZ. With Draigo in a unit of Termies, I was never going to get slay the warlord and after losing first blood I think a draw was all I could reasonably expect.
That said though, I was still delighted as my main aim results-wise was to not get tabled every game and maybe pick up a result. From my perspective, this definitely counted!
My opponent was great fun also, and was much more concerned with having a great game than winning – he even offer me to reroll the deep strike mishap that had my guys posted in the back corner, but I decided bad luck was bad luck and it would serve to teach me the value of measuring 12” from the table edge in future
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/06 01:06:43
If in doubt, frag it out...
Fight spam with spam, cheese with cheese, and fluff with a razor sharp sense of the appropriate
The tank part of army 11 is a Space Marine Hunter. One of the 2 new anti air tanks that SM got with there codex. Fires a missle that locks on and has a chance to hit in the following turns.
Refer to Page 5
PLAY LIKE YOU GOT A PAIR!!
World Eaters 5000 pts
2014/11/06 01:11:28
Subject: Bonkers in Honkers - Titan's Bastards head to FA GT 2014
Fallenbourne wrote: The tank part of army 11 is a Space Marine Hunter. One of the 2 new anti air tanks that SM got with there codex. Fires a missle that locks on and has a chance to hit in the following turns.
Ah, thanks for clearing that up - I haven't seen a hunter model before, but just sort of assumed GWs approach would have been to do a rhino with a great big oversize missile or two on the back. Its actually refreshingly subtle (well, ish).
If in doubt, frag it out...
Fight spam with spam, cheese with cheese, and fluff with a razor sharp sense of the appropriate
Game 2: Titan’s Bastards vs Salamanders with Imperial Knight
Mission: Crusade (4 total objectives, marked by orange barrels in the photos)
Deployment: Random - Dawn of War
Game Length: Variable (2.5 hrs. time limit)
Terrain: Pre-set
Going first: My opponent!
Another first for me - I knew I would come up against one (or more) sooner or later, but I was kind of hoping for the later. Knights are a bit of a mystery to me (something about shields only facing one direction?), but looking at the rest of my opponents list I felt fairly confident that I would at least be competitive. His deployment of the Knight along the left side flank (presumably to protect it from my DSLotD melta squads) helped confirm my approach to this threat - I would ignore it as best I could, probably surrendering which ever objective it happened to be near, and concentrate on challenging for the other three.
My early confidence was abruptly drained though when I discovered my opponent was one of the veteran players at the FLGS, and one of three favourites for the overall crown. Great.
My strategic approach would be the same again, boys dug in behind the ADL waiting for salvation to arrive, but this time I decided to outflank two units of scouts to try and challenge for the back two objectives on his side of the board, while infiltrating the sniper scouts into the central ruins.
'Keep yer heads down lads!'
The sparse terrain favours my opponents Knight and its big old gun, making me doubly glad of having the Aegis Line for cover, even if I will have no use for the Icarus LC for the second game in a row. My opponent rolls to go first and I decide not to seize, as I want to use my DP strike to counter his.
'Three craters and two ruins do not an interesting game make...'
Turn 1, and my opponent parks his Rhino & Razorback on his backfield objectives, while two of his drop pods come in and land near the two objectives near my deployment zone. The Command squad & Chapter Master emerge from the one on my left flank to waste my Dread with their meltaguns, making him go boom and giving him First Blood. The Ironclad emerges from his DP on the right flank and attempts to flame the DEVs and my warlord, but they make their saves. The Knights battle cannon scatters off, and a fairly lack luster first turn for my opponent is over.
My Drop pod comes in next to his Command squad, and the combined 21 shots from Libby & Sternguard result in a mighty.....2 models being removed (the ones without SS). Not quite the result I was looking for. DEVs shoot at the backfield Razorback but miss, and i forget about the scouts in the central ruin due to their excellent camouflage. Very poor first turn for me, but the vast bulk of my units are yet to come in.
'Tsk. I dunno Serg, don't they teach kids how to park pods anymore?'
Turn two, and my opponents scouts come in from reserve, but his DP with the TAC squad is still out. The LSS with scouts outflank to the left flank with my Sterguard but cause no damage in shooting. The Command squad shoots & assualts the sternguard, killing 5 in total for a loss of none. Despite losing the combat, my guys would hold. Knight kills a DEV while the Ironclad gears up for the charge on the same unit but fails the distance.
'Aha! I'll see your counter pod strike and raise you an outflanking unit!'
My turn and both units of scouts and the land speeder come in from reserve, but none of the LotD! Aaaargh! Disastrous! I was hoping for the exact opposite! Never mind, will have to make the most of it. One unit of scouts comes onto the far back of the right flank, trying to sneak behind the rhino guarding the objective and glance it to death with massed bolter fire. They would fail. The second scout unit outflanks into the path of the knight on the left, and managed to down the newly arrived LSS with a well-aimed krak grenade. Unfortunately, all passengers survive the explodes result. My Land speeder also comes on and pops the Razorback guarding the objective in the far back left flank, killing three passengers, causing the survivors to break (but not quite off the table) and leaving one objective unguarded.... for now. Close combat is a stalemate, with his warlord taking a wound.
'if we are really reaaaaaaaaaally quiet, he won’t notice us'
'Yes? Well, I’ll see your counter counter-pod strike outflanking unit and raise you another outflanking unit!'
Turn three, and his final drop pod comes in. He brings it down on the objective recently vacated by his razorback and proceeds to wreck the land speeder with massed bolter fire. The Knight thinks about charging the scouts, but decides the heavy stubber is probably more efficient and shoots them to death. His scouts join the combat with my Libby & sternguard, which ends in yet another stalemate - me losing a sternguard and him a scout. The Ironclad charges the remaining DEVs and destroys them, leaving my warlord to leg it- er, tactically withdraw in the opposite direction.
'Hmmm, on second thoughts white and red might not have been the most inconspicuou-aaaarrrgh!'
'I want my mum...'
'What do you expect? Have you ever tried punching ceramite?'
My go, and only two LotD come in this turn, one plasma and one melta. Its probably too late now, but I can at least try and capture a few objectives and maybe deny him one. Both teams drop near the Rhino on the far back right flank objective and shoot, but only manage to put it down to 1HP. I finally remember the scouts in the ruins and they start making a move for the objective claimed by the ironclad’s DP. Combat continues, I lose both remaining sternguard but the Libby hangs tough against the chapter master.
"better late than neve- oh, wait. Gak.'
Turn 4, and my opponents stuff shuffles about a bit but with time running out he knows he has won and so doesn’t do much apart from killing a few scouts with the Knight’s battle cannon.
My Turn, and the Remaining legionnaires come in, all too late. I drop one near the Ironclad drop pod and wreck it, while the scouts run to claim it but fail by half an inch! Argh! The other LotD teams destroy the remaining Rhino and the scouts claim the objective, making the score a little more respectable.
'Argh! If only we weren’t wearing these stupid cloaks and tripping on them we would have probably made it!'
'Right, ok. So next time, better early than late. Got it.
The TO calls time and we end what has been a fairly pulsating game, with both sides pod striking, outflanking and deep striking all over the place. He holds two objectives; I hold one and one is (just about) unclaimed. My opponent also takes First Blood and Linebreaker, while I also pick up Linebreaker with my scouts.
RESULT:
Spoiler:
TITAN'S BASTARDS 4:8 SALAMANDERS
DEFEAT!
Well, I have to say that was one of the best SM on SM games I have played in a while - it was really quite exciting, with almost every kind of reserve move used and lots of darting back and forth across the board to deal with threats on all flanks. My opponent was great fun too and very gracious in victory, suggesting that my late arriving LotD units really helped him out.
And I guess that was the big story of this game - my strategy to ignore the Knight was the right one I think, as he put out some damage but not enough to warrant throwing everything at him. If the LotD had come in turns 2/3 rather than 3/4 I would have had more time to shoot his troops off of one more objective and would have felt fairly confident in holding them with the 3+ invulnerable saves.
As it was, I was proud of the way I handled one of the favourites for the tournament (he would go on to finish second) and felt the score was more than respectable, even if it was a defat. If my scouts had made that final run by just one more inch (I needed a 3+ and rolled a 2) the score would have been even closer (8-7)!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/17 09:43:48
If in doubt, frag it out...
Fight spam with spam, cheese with cheese, and fluff with a razor sharp sense of the appropriate
Iapedus wrote: In my book, than makes both sides equally responsible and the results should have stood. I've played plenty of games where mistakes in my interpretation or my opponents have had an impact on the game, but I have never demanded a reversal of the result. My attitude is that if I didn't pick up on it its my fault for not knowing. Simple.
I do rules judging at multiple GTs in the US and you're absolutely correct; changing the outcome of a game after it has been completed over a rules misunderstanding is absurd. It's just flat out wrong and sets a terrible precedent--absolutely nothing short of outright cheating (cheat dice, list shenanigans, etc) should ever retroactively affect a game result.
The way you describe the player makes me feel as if he just bullied the judges until he got his way--ESPECIALLY since it wasn't even changed to a win (meaning he likely still wasn't going to win the tournament) and instead was just complaining until the other guy didn't get a win either.
The primary concept is that it is always the responsibility of both players to know the rules. You can't come up to me after a game and say "he told me Jet Packs move 30 inches, I demand he forfeits the game." It's your fault for not knowing Jet Packs don't move 30", or acting upon the resources available (the rulebook and the judges) to reach that conclusion during the game, before the outcome was affected.
The more nefarious side of that (in regard to setting precedent) is honestly the more important one--if you start changing the outcomes of games retroactively based on rules issues, you're actively incentivizing people to not point out rules mistakes during the game. Let's say you honestly believe Jet Packs move 30". In the world we've just created, why would I ever point out to you that they cannot, even if I know they cannot? I'd just play out the game, see if I win, and if I don't, call the judges over and demand you forfeit because of your earlier rules mistake.
Essentially, at major tournaments, if you get "rules-cheated" by your opponent it is your fault, and that is by design. You are the only one who has an active stake in making sure your opponent follows the rules, and therefore you're the only one qualified to make sure he does so during the game.
2014/11/09 19:15:53
Subject: Bonkers in Honkers - Titan's Bastards head to FA GT 2014 [Game 1 & 2 Completed]
DJ3 wrote:The more nefarious side of that (in regard to setting precedent) is honestly the more important one--if you start changing the outcomes of games retroactively based on rules issues, you're actively incentivizing people to not point out rules mistakes during the game. Let's say you honestly believe Jet Packs move 30". In the world we've just created, why would I ever point out to you that they cannot, even if I know they cannot? I'd just play out the game, see if I win, and if I don't, call the judges over and demand you forfeit because of your earlier rules mistake.
Essentially, at major tournaments, if you get "rules-cheated" by your opponent it is your fault, and that is by design. You are the only one who has an active stake in making sure your opponent follows the rules, and therefore you're the only one qualified to make sure he does so during the game.
Yes, exactly! I wasn't sure anyone would agree with my interpretation but its nice to hear it from a TO, thanks
sir william the bold wrote:Loved seeing my old FLGS! Great reports, keep 'em comin
Cheers! Thegood folks at Fun Atelier did a great job with the GT
If in doubt, frag it out...
Fight spam with spam, cheese with cheese, and fluff with a razor sharp sense of the appropriate
Mission: The Scouring (6 total objectives, represented by the orange barrels, with random points values)
Deployment: Random - Dawn of War (three in a row!)
Game Length: Variable (2.5 hrs. time limit)
Terrain: Pre-set
Going first: Me
Warboss (finkin cap, mega armour, cybork body)
Painboy
Mek shok attak
Mek shok attak
30 Grots, 3 Runtherds, 1 with Squig Hound
30 Boyz Sluggas, Nob Powa Klaw, Boss Pole
30 boyz shootas, Nob Powa Klaw, Boss Pole
20 Boyz Sluggas, Nob Powa Klaw, Boss Pole
dakkajet
dakkajet
6 Lootas
5 Lootas
5 Lootas
3 Mek guns - Kannon, 4 grots + 3 amno runt
3 Mek guns - Kannon, 4 grots + 3 amno runt
Urgh. Orks. But not just Orks - a gak load of Orks!
Now that’s not to say I don’t like Orks. Far from it as, like most people, I happen to think they are probably the most entertaining faction in 40K and the models are always great (especially when painted to this standard! ). I am also really looking forward to this match up as it is my first proper Xeno list of the day, and always being paired against the ever popular forces of the imperium can get a it dull sometimes.
The issue I have is playing against a horde, about whom I know very little and cannot really tell apart from one another. Target prioritization will go out of the window here, as just about the only thing I know to go after are the Lootas and the Dakka jets (and even then I will have to ask my opponent which models the Lootas are exactly…..)
My strategic approach would be as usual, long range units dug in behind the ADL waiting for salvation to arrive, but this time I will keep the infiltrating scouts on the park. LotD, Sternies with Libby in DP and Land speeder in reserves. As the green tide advances, I will try to whittle them down with bolter drill and stay out of close combat . Simple enough - after all, Orks aren’t shooty armies, right?
The sparse terrain sort of favours me with my (assumed) superior shooting, and I will at last have a use for the Icarus LC when the dakka jets come in. Having decided to start with my scouts infiltrating rather than outflanking turns out to be a blessing, as my opponent roles ‘Master of Ambush’ as his Warlord trait and declares all 80 boys will be infiltrating! Wha?!?!?! Luckily I rolled to go first so position my scouts in a way that means infiltration does very little for him (god bless those 18” LOS bubbles). I roll ‘Pinceps of Defeat’, which leads to one of his units of Boyz starting the game pinned. Nice.
‘101, 102, 103, 104……' My opponent (second left) taking 45 minutes to set up. Note how everyone else’s games are well underway…..
Turn one, and we turn over the random objective barrels. I hold a 3 pointer behind my ADL, with the four pointer just left of the central ruin and the other 3 pointer inside the ruin. I try to bring the drop pod down on the 4 pointer to score, but it scatters two inches off (this would have far reaching consequences).
I cast invisibility on my Libby & Sterneis, but nothing else goes off. Shooting is fairly ineffectual, only killing a couple of lootas and a few of the boys in the Painboyz unit (the group closets to my Sternguard unit, if like me you can’t tell what’s what). It’s about now that I realise my fit out is geared more towards Armour, TEQs and MEQs, and not really anti horde. I am going to struggle to inflict enough damage from range.
'Argh! Green skins on a green background? It’s like Polar bears in the snow!'
My opponents turn, and the boredom begins. Half hour later, his movement is complete, and he gets on with the equally mammoth task of shooting. Many many dice later, he kills two of the DEVs behind the Aegis Line and a handful of scouts around the board. Assault, and the 30 odd boys + Painboy make a massive charge somehow and get into CC with my Sternguard and Libby. I deal very little damage, while he kills 7 out of the eight Sternguard and puts a wound on my librarian. They break, badly, and only just avoid being swept.
It’s about 5 minutes later than I realise I have made a MASSIVE mistake here. I totally forgot that the unit was invisible, despite putting the card RIGHT NEXT TO THEM to remind me (see below photo). If not winning the combat, my unit would have at least tarpitted the boyz for a turn or longer, and would certainly not have been so battered. At this point I scuttle off to the loo for a cry, and return utterly deflated.
Yeah, as it says clearly on that big fething card. INVISIBLE! Idiothole……
Turn two, and my Land speeder and two units of LotD come in (one melta, one plasma). My Libby and sole Sterguard regroup and decided to hang back on the four point objective, while the Land speeder grabs an outlying two point objective. More ineffective psychic powers followed by poor shooting and my turn is over.
One of the Dakkajets comes in and I intercept it with the Icarus (at last! It has been used!). Results are less than overwhelming. Hit, Pen, roll a three and it doesn’t crash and burn. Hardly scratched it. It them proceeds to kill my Dread stone cold dead. Shooting from his lootas then takes out the Icarus LC, which I figure is no great loss.
Despite everything, I have to say that this was an excellent dakka jet conversion – note the storm talon engines! Brilliant!
Turn three and time is about to be called (yes, beginning of turn 3). Since the schedule for the day is already an hour behind, and it has been a long day, I offer to call it a draw with my opponent (even though at this stage I was about 9-4 up on points). He refuses, so we play on to the bitter end.
My remaining LotD come in and do very little other than grab Linebreaker. The melta LotD team that came in last turn charge the Painboy and his unit, and actually win the combat! The Orks break, but as the LotD are slow and purposeful, they cannot sweep them. It is, however, a small victory none the less, and my exhaustion and gloom lift ever so slightly. I don’t drag out my turn and it ends after about 5 minutes.
'oh yeah buddy, feel the pain of my flame encrusted fear inducing spectral fist in your face. Bam!'
My opponents turn, and for some god forsaken reason he decides to move everything up, in some bizarre attempt to get into CC with an LoTD squad who are in no way important to the final outcome of this game. His second dakka jet comes in, and proceeds to shoot my Libby and Sterguard off of the four point objective.
The Painboy’s unit regroups and heads for the uncontested objective in the centre of the ruin, while everything else shots at various units, taking forever and rolling literally hundreds of dice to kill a handful of Legionaries who were not scoring or contesting or really doing anything other than waiting to be packed away.
With my will to live thoroughly drained, and most other contestants gone home, the game finally ends.
He holds two objectives and has first blood and slay the warlord; I hold two objectives and pick up Linebreaker .
Even the Dread has lost the will to live. Well, that and about 6 glances.....'
RESULT:
Spoiler:
TITAN'S BASTARDS 5:6 ORKS
DEFEAT!
As you might have been able to tell from the write up (and the lack of photos), I really didn’t enjoy this game and was glad when it was over. It was so bad that I even considered not coming back the next day, as I wasn’t sure could face another session as punishing as that.
It wasn’t just that it was the last game of a long day, or that my opponent was not quite in the spirit of things. It was more that standing around for hours watching someone move 140+ models a turn, then rolling literally hundreds of dice to generate a small number of (rather lethal) hits was utterly boring. It is no surprise we only got to the end of turn three, and even then a full 45 minutes after time had been called (after my opponent refused to call it).
A close result though, and much closer than I thought I had any right to be considering the fit out of my list. Had I not made a few crucial mistakes such as the invisibility gaff, or only leaving my Libby on the 4 point objective, it might have been a victory. Also, who new Orks were so shooty? The vast majority of their damage was dealt at range, and with only two assaults all game I won one and should have at least tar pitted the other (had I remembered invisibility).
Still, a valuable lesson learned with regards to policing my own game, and a mistake I will not make again.
With that, I headed home for a well needed break and decide I will come back for day two – after all, who knows what tomorrow will bring
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/17 09:43:30
If in doubt, frag it out...
Fight spam with spam, cheese with cheese, and fluff with a razor sharp sense of the appropriate
Please tell me the Ork player had a tray for his models, or else that's unneccessary time wasting setting up :/
Looking forward to day 2 - and the unsavory incident mentioned earlier (unless it was the Daemon controversy as pointed above). I'm still a little riled up that the Eldar player would bring such a list (but save that for the tactics thread )
YMDC = nightmare
2014/11/11 15:26:42
Subject: Bonkers in Honkers - Titan's Bastards head to FA GT 2014 [Game 1,2&3 Completed]
Wow, that guy refused a draw when he was wasting a crap ton of time, that's not fair. If you are going to waste as much time as he did and not even be a fun opponent you have to be willing to compromise, especially on the last game of the day.
2014/11/11 16:11:46
Subject: Bonkers in Honkers - Titan's Bastards head to FA GT 2014 [Game 1,2&3 Completed]
Haha... Sorry about that game mate! Normally orks are actually great fun to play against. But on the plus side, those were some beautifully painted and modeled orks!
Movement should not have taken that long - even with that many models. It is pretty straightforward to move the front rank - and then eyeball the others based on the distance between them.
Not to mention, it is usually polite to move maybe the first 2 ranks, and then fill the others in during your opponents turn. Those back Orks are really unlikely to matter. Even moving a single ork from each rank - which were in rows - speeds up the process a lot so that you can just eyeball the others into a straight line.
I'm really liking the tourney recap and battle reports. Please keep them coming. The games look fun, but I cannot believe how sparse the terrain is! Are tournaments always like that? No wonder there are so many lists of Marines and Knights: They are the only things that can survive standing out in the open all game with no cover! I'm looking forward to seeing the rest.
Project log and campaign featuring Orks, Imperial Guard, Marines, Tyranids: http://www.xhorikwar.blogspot.com/ Currently focused on our Horus Heresy campaign with White Scars, Death Guard and Imperial Militia.
2014/11/12 22:12:46
Subject: Bonkers in Honkers - Titan's Bastards head to FA GT 2014 [Game 1,2&3 Completed]
Frozocrone wrote:Please tell me the Ork player had a tray for his models, or else that's unneccessary time wasting setting up :/
Nope. Everything had to go into/come out of individual foam pockets to be transported from the previous table to this one The unsavoury incident is the Daemon controversy as you pointed out, but I will try and go into a bit more detail.
troy_tempest wrote:Great batreps! The ork game was super-close!
Thanks, and yes it was - much closer than I thought it would be, and really left me ruing the DP scatter in T1 and my invisibility gaff.
Clockwork Iron wrote:Wow, that guy refused a draw when he was wasting a crap ton of time, that's not fair. If you are going to waste as much time as he did and not even be a fun opponent you have to be willing to compromise, especially on the last game of the day.
Well, I guess in hindsight he actually did the right thing from his perspective - he turned down a draw and got a win, and I'm sure he would point out that is was a competitive tournament after all. Its just not what I would have done to an opponent, but there were are...
sir william the bold wrote:Haha... Sorry about that game mate! Normally orks are actually great fun to play against. But on the plus side, those were some beautifully painted and modeled orks!
They really were, it was a pubic vote for best painted and he won hands down. The level of conversion throughout his army was impressive too.
calypso2ts wrote:Movement should not have taken that long - even with that many models. It is pretty straightforward to move the front rank - and then eyeball the others based on the distance between them.
Not to mention, it is usually polite to move maybe the first 2 ranks, and then fill the others in during your opponents turn. Those back Orks are really unlikely to matter. Even moving a single ork from each rank - which were in rows - speeds up the process a lot so that you can just eyeball the others into a straight line.
Yeah, for some reason he was obsessed with having everything exactly 2" apart - bad past experience with pie plates? Possibly, but considering my entire army had only 4 small blast weapons I don't think he needed to bother. He also agonized over the exact positioning of the 'first rank' models, and then eyeballed the movement of those behind so badly that a lot of 'magic inches' were appearing, and in danger of turning into 'magic feet' by the end. However, if I had called him on that his turns would have taken even longer, so either way I lose.
The Riddle of Steel wrote:I'm really liking the tourney recap and battle reports. Please keep them coming. The games look fun, but I cannot believe how sparse the terrain is! Are tournaments always like that? No wonder there are so many lists of Marines and Knights: They are the only things that can survive standing out in the open all game with no cover! I'm looking forward to seeing the rest.
Yeah terrain was a real issue, which was a surprise because the TOs have an adundance of great terrain at the venue. Just glad I took the ADL.
SevenSins wrote:Very nice reports, too bad about that last game.... Timed turns where areth thou? Still, looking forward to the rest.
Ha ha, like Blitz chess! I like it
If in doubt, frag it out...
Fight spam with spam, cheese with cheese, and fluff with a razor sharp sense of the appropriate
Mission: Crusade (4 total objectives, represented by the black barrels, with random points values)
Deployment: Random - Dawn of War (four in a row! What are the odds?)
Game Length: Variable (2.5 hrs. time limit)
Terrain: Pre-set
Going first: Me
Alas no photo as I failed to grab it on one day one and forgot to get one before the game
My Opponents List
Njal Stormcaller
Wolf Guard Battle Leader, Fangsword Of The Ice Wolf , Armor of Russ, Stone Helm of Durfast, Bite Of Fenris (I think this is every relic available!)
Grey Hunters x10, PG x2, CCW x3 6, DP Blood Claws x 15, Flamer, MG, PF Stormwolf, TLMM, Hell Frost Cannon, etc
Wolfguard Terminators x5, AC, TH & SS, CF, twin Wolf Claws, Frost Sword
Land Raider Redeemer , MM, HF x 2
Long Fangs x6, PG, PC, LC x2, MM, HB Razorback, TLHB
Ok, back to what I know – Space Marines. Three out of four games so far have been against power armour dudes and I have to say it is a little dull, even if they are all different chapters with their subtle tactical nuaincessasasasayadadadadadada. Next year I will definitely bring my Tau for a bit of variation. Still, at least I know what I am facing and have a fair idea of how to beat it. Unlike yesterday’s Ork force, I also believe my fit out is well equipped to deal with everything in my opponents list.
My strategic approach would be as usual, long range units dug in behind the ADL waiting for salvation to arrive, scouts infiltrating onto three of the objectives from the start and just hoping to stay there unnoticed. LotD, Sternies with Libby in DP and Land speeder in reserves. My strategy will be to try and keep his attention on his side of the table with my Libby unit in the DP causing trouble from turn 1, while the LotD deep strike where needed (Plasma for Termies/Meltas for Land Raider) and scouts picking up the points.
The sparse terrain slightly favours my opponent has he starts with more guns on the board, but that will change as soon as the LotD come in. We both role equally useless Warlord traits, and it is game on.
Turn 1. My opponent fails to seize, and I drop the pod on his backline to score on the objective as well as put me in range of the Longfangs guarding it. The pod hits the mark for the first time in the tournament. Nothing else moves.
Njal, riding his land raider like a surf board. Apparently, it is in the fluff. Somewhere. (see the ‘Summers on Fenris’ supplement)
I cast Terrify on the Longfangs hiding in the trees, as a softener-upper for Psychic Shriek, but my opponent manages to Deny the latter. However, the Longfangs then fail the Terrify moral check and sprint 11 inches clear off the board, giving my First blood without even firing a shot! Brilz I fire some shots at the razor back from range but do nothing, and my turn is over.
My opponents turn, and he brings the DP with Grey Hunter down next to my Scouts in the crater to try and clear them of the objective. He would forget to shoot with these guys.
Get ‘em lads! Yeaaaaaaargh!
Land Raider then rumbled on towards my Sternies, with Njal and the Wolf Guard safely tucked up inside…
Hmmm. Looks ominous…..
….who, between them and the Land Raiders heavy flamers, completely wipe out my Sternguard. Only the Libby survives. The wolf guard then assault him for good measure. Eeeek.
Er, hang on – where did the other eight boys go?
Turn two, and my Land speeder and two units of LotD come in (one melta, one plasma). My Libby is stuck in Combat but manages to cast invisibility to help him stay alive.
The Melta LotD drop in behind the Land Raider and hit it. Both the MG and combi-melta bounce off, but the MM punches through and I roll a six on the damage chart. Boom! Gotta love those one shot melta wonders.
See that big patch of green where your 250pt tank used to be? Sorry about that.
Plasma LotD drops near his Grey Hunters and the DP - between them, the sniper scouts and the Dread they are wiped out to a man. Good shooting.
‘There once was a lonely drop pod….’
The DEVs and Land speeder also manage to finish off the Razorback between them, completing a pretty awesome turn of shooting for me.
‘I told you to only blow the bloody doors off…’
My opponents go, and in all fairness he is reeling from last turn losses. His luck changes slightly though and in comes the Stormfang with 15 blood claws and the tooled up Warlord. They head straight for my backline with the DEVs and scouts on the objective. I attempt to intercept the Stormfang with the Icarus LC, but only manage a glance (he would then take it out with the Stormfangs guns – so far in the tournament this AA platform has been a bitter disappointment).
‘Whaaaaaaaa? Where did they come from?’
They would assault the DEVs and wipe them out in CC, while my Libby would succumb to Njal and his cronies. They would also take out the DP, just for good measure.
‘Hmmm. Nice view for up here. What’s that screaming coming from over their?’
Turn three and the remainder of my LotD comes in, one unit heading to help the scouts hold the objective against the newly arrived blood claws, while the other goes off to help mop up Njal and the Wolfguard.
‘You know what goes really well with Termy armour? Plasmasauce! Boom!'
Plasma/melta cross fire makes short work of the Wolf Guard and Njal, but the lack of LotD running ability mean they won’t make the objective by the time the game is over. All other fire is directed at the blood claws, 10 of whom die but they hold due to the warlord being attached.
My opponents turn, and he charges his only remaining scoring unit at the scouts in an effort to clear them off the objective. It ends up being a disordered charge though against the nearby LotD, and after a tense combat phase two scouts and two LotD remain in contesting distance of the objective.
‘Chaaaaaaaaaaarge! No, not the flaming heavy metal space band dudes, the weedy looking guys in the cloaks!’
With only one unit left, I offer to call it so as to avoid a tabling and my opponent agrees, ending the game early.
He holds no objectives but has line breaker and I mistakenly give him first blood (forgetting about the long bolted Longfangs). I hold two objectives and pick up Line breaker .
RESULT:
Spoiler:
TITAN'S BASTARDS 7:2 Sons of Fenris
VICTORY!
After yesterday’s final drudge match, if I was looking for a game to restore my faith in 40K, I certainly got it.
And all of the credit for this had to go to my opponent. He was, quite simply, great fun to play against. Not only had he flown in all the way from the Philippines to play in the tournament (unbelievable commitment on his behalf), he had a great attitude in the game as well. He had been tabled in every match up till this one, and ended up in last place overall by the end of day two, but it didn’t stop him smiling once. Even amongst the carnage of the turn two shooting rampage, he had the air of a chap who was just happy to be playing.
As far as the game itself went, it was another pulsating exchange of deep strikes, drop pods and fast moving reserves that I have come to expect from SM on SM matchups, and the game was a lot closer than the score suggested. If he had cleared my scouts from the objective in the last turn, it would have ended 5:5 (provided I noticed the first blood mistake). That said, if we had gone one more turn I would probably have tabled him and taken it 10:0, but neither of us really wanted that, and I think it was better served as a close fought duel.
A close result, and I had some great luck (pretty much all of turn 2) but still made some tactical mistakes (dropping my Sternies far too close to the Land Raider) but I managed to pick up my first win of the tournament, and headed into the afternoon spirit refreshed and faith restored.
If in doubt, frag it out...
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