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Made in dk
Fresh-Faced New User




I'm in the process of deciding what models i need to buy to start my very first army. I have chosen it to be a chaos space marine army with future allies being Chaos Daemons since i like the big daemons and since i think the concept of summoning more is just fantastic.

So far i only know that i want Ba'lekor, another Daemon Prince and a Helldrake. I chose CSM over Daemons because they can have bikes so i got to have some of those.

So, my question is this: What does an army need? this is for 1500 points to start it off.

how much anti-tank and how much of anything do i need? I really need help to figure out which parts i'm missing or going to need.

The group that i play with allows Forge World. Don't know if that means anything besides that i know that i can ally in some more tanks. I just don't like the look on Rhinos. Are they really that important?

I'm going for an army that people will have a very hard time wiping out. Big, scary and durable units have the benefit of having less models to buy. But no point in an army that can't function properly

Which aspects would you try to cover, and how, should you make your first army? Please help a new player out
   
Made in us
Gargantuan Grotesque With Gnarskin




My 1500 CSM armies generally roll with 2 drakes, some AA in the form of Las cannons (Havocs, Predator Tank) or a Defiler, then an HQ or two which lets me take elites as troops (see Typhus, Marked Chaos Lord, etc). Nurgle bikers are some of the best fast movers at toughness 6.

I main as daemons though so I may not have the best ideas. FNP plaguebearers objective camp, AV 13 HP 4 Nurgle Grinders ruin armor, and Karanak + Bloodcrushers wipe space marine units on the charge. Fun stuff.
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




New York

Generally if I'm making a TAC list, I try to add 2 anti tank units, 2 anti infantry units, a unit that can do both, and troops to take and hold objectives. I'm not a CSM player but I would do this:

Heldrake for anti infantry
Nurgle bikers with melta (can they take that?) for anti tank
Ba'lekor and other DP are your units that can do both
2+ marine or cultist squads to take and hold objectives

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/19 03:21:46


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Made in us
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 Dalek Sec wrote:
Generally if I'm making a TAC list, I try to add 2 anti tank units, 2 anti infantry units, a unit that can do both, and troops to take and hold objectives. I'm not a CSM player but I would do this:

Heldrake for anti infantry
Nurgle bikers with melta (can they take that?) for anti tank
Ba'lekor and other DP are your units that can do both
2+ marine or cultist squads to take and hold objectives


This. If you really want to have a strong list, take Plague Marines and a Nurgle Lord, who can make them troops. Also, yes Bikers can take special weapons, believe it's 2 for a squad.

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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

Generally, you don't need dedicated anti-horde these days. Cover rules, wound allocation, etc. mean you shouldn't need more than the small arms, close combat weapons and default vehicle guns. This is especially true with CSM, which oozes anti-infantry out of every pore and corrupted orifice. I wouldn't even bother with the helldrake unless you have some particular affinity for it.

And it turns out that weight of attacks enough to handle hordes is usually enough to handle Sv3+, is usually enough to handle terminators and low-T MCs.

That just leaves vehicles and a few absurd high-T/low Sv MCs. Which means plasmas and meltas, or a fanatical devotion to a huge volume of mid-S multi-shot weapons (lootas, shuriken cannons, etc.), which CSM is rather poorly equipped to put out.

So, the best way to run it is to take what you're taking, and pack as many lascannon/meltaguns/plasma guns in as you can.

Much like how 40k has always been and, if things continue with the way they've been going the past few years, will be in the indefinite future.


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Made in dk
Fresh-Faced New User




So by Getting Typhus and 2 squads of plague marines and then Ba'lekor and some nurgle bikers i have a good core? then i've seen several lists that use 3 helbrutes with meltas and i'm guessing they will fulfill a good deal of the anti-tank.
But by getting Typhus and Ba'lekor i can't get another daemon prince and i don't understand the allies rules so i don't know if i can just grab one from Daemons.

Would that be a good core to build an army?

If i just want to run several Daemon Princes (because i like the bigger and stronger units compared to smaller squards, optimal or not ) do i need to switch to Daemon? Perhaps someone can guide me to where i can find the allies rules, think that would help a lot
   
Made in us
Gargantuan Grotesque With Gnarskin




If you want to stay Battle Forged (many tournaments require this type of Force Organization), you'd need a troop choice from Daemons to take a second daemon prince as an ally HQ. That's an extra 45 points for a minimal Nurgling unit. Add the cost of the other Prince and Typhus and you've basically spent over half your 1500 points on HQs alone. Since Plague Marines aren't cheap, you're much better off spending those extra points on Heavy Support or your Nurgle Bikers to round out your force.

If you just want to run several daemon princes, you'd best go Daemons. The "Greater Daemon" HQs allow you to take Daemon Princes as Heavy Support so you'd have 3 Princes and a comparable MC HQ (this is called the Flying Circus build). I think that forces you to use the Greater Daemon as your warlord so it wouldn't work as an allied detachment (although you could ally a CSM Prince for another if you care about staying Battle Forged).

If you don't care about being Battle Forged then you can take as many DPs as you want without needing to follow force org.

As for the rest of your core, you'll need to watch your points costs. Typhus is an expensive HQ and Plague Marines are expensive infantry (if you want a decent sized unit). Nurgle bikers add up as well (especially with Meltas). I'd drop Belakor for more heavy support or a heldrake (drakes are one of the best marine killing units in the game).
   
 
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