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So I just got a pair of these guys, and on paper, they seem great. But I'm wondering if they suffer due to only having 1 wound. It may have been how I ran them, but I tried them up against a Deathstar DEldar unit and they got murdered. Am I playing them wrong or are they overrated?

I have had great success with the ones I have, they tend to draw a lot of fire. Though your really need to keep them packed together to make good use of their abilities, or mix them and run them base to base with normal termies to bump their toughness.

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
I have had great success with the ones I have, they tend to draw a lot of fire. Though your really need to keep them packed together to make good use of their abilities, or mix them and run them base to base with normal termies to bump their toughness.

Can you mix regular Termie and DW Knight units?

 jreilly89 wrote:
So I just got a pair of these guys, and on paper, they seem great. But I'm wondering if they suffer due to only having 1 wound. It may have been how I ran them, but I tried them up against a Deathstar DEldar unit and they got murdered. Am I playing them wrong or are they overrated?

In general, very elite things to rather poorly against Dark Eldar. DE are *really* good at dealing with scary elite units. They've got lots of things that ignore toughness, things that reduce attacks, lots of AP2/3 weaponry, lots of Instant Death mechanics, very high initiative, very high weapon skill, etc and in general a lot of very elite units will have abilities that, while very powerful against well-armored foes, don't mean much against DE (e.g. having a power weapon doesn't mean much when they've only got a 5+ or 6+ save in the first place, or get a 4++ invul in close combat, making the power weapon just wasted points). What they have real trouble with is lots of mediocre things, DE don't typically do very well against opponents with huge amounts of mediocre stuff because those same advantages don't mean much.

So, that said, don't gauge their effectiveness against DE as a typical measure of their value. DW knights are exactly the type of unit that Dark Eldar excel at engaging. Against something like Imperial Guard, they're much better (that AP4 is all you need, and the S6 maces mulches tanks and ID's command units, while the 3++ mitigates a lot of the AP2 shooting and the T5 makes S3 lasguns, S5 heavy bolters, and S6 multilasers much less effective). They're not a bad unit, but are exactly the type of thing Dark Eldar like seeing. You'll get greater use of them against other opponents.

Yeah DWKs are great. I had a unit of 8 wipe out 100 guardsmen in 1 game. They couldn't hurt WS and T 5 with a 2+ . There are 2 ways I run them. First is as a distraction unit. DS them turn 1 in a group and your opponent will do everything he can to kill them S10 ap2 is no joke even for 1 turn. The other way I use them is as a deathstar unit, I put 7 in a land raider redeemer with an interogator chaplain. Not as competitive but so much fun !

 Vaktathi wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
So I just got a pair of these guys, and on paper, they seem great. But I'm wondering if they suffer due to only having 1 wound. It may have been how I ran them, but I tried them up against a Deathstar DEldar unit and they got murdered. Am I playing them wrong or are they overrated?

In general, very elite things to rather poorly against Dark Eldar. DE are *really* good at dealing with scary elite units. They've got lots of things that ignore toughness, things that reduce attacks, lots of AP2/3 weaponry, lots of Instant Death mechanics, very high initiative, very high weapon skill, etc and in general a lot of very elite units will have abilities that, while very powerful against well-armored foes, don't mean much against DE (e.g. having a power weapon doesn't mean much when they've only got a 5+ or 6+ save in the first place, or get a 4++ invul in close combat, making the power weapon just wasted points). What they have real trouble with is lots of mediocre things, DE don't typically do very well against opponents with huge amounts of mediocre stuff because those same advantages don't mean much.

So, that said, don't gauge their effectiveness against DE as a typical measure of their value. DW knights are exactly the type of unit that Dark Eldar excel at engaging. Against something like Imperial Guard, they're much better (that AP4 is all you need, and the S6 maces mulches tanks and ID's command units, while the 3++ mitigates a lot of the AP2 shooting and the T5 makes S3 lasguns, S5 heavy bolters, and S6 multilasers much less effective). They're not a bad unit, but are exactly the type of thing Dark Eldar like seeing. You'll get greater use of them against other opponents.

This is a great analysis, thank you! I'm just struggling because my opponent has lately been running an unbound deathstar unit, composed of an Archo, a Farseer, and 10 Wraithguard with their S10 AP2 bullgak. Needless to say, it's frustrating

 jreilly89 wrote:

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
I have had great success with the ones I have, they tend to draw a lot of fire. Though your really need to keep them packed together to make good use of their abilities, or mix them and run them base to base with normal termies to bump their toughness.

Can you mix regular Termie and DW Knight units?

They cant mix in but there rule only requires you to have models it spreads to any model touching two of them, you can help boost some other termies if there numbers get low which can be really handy.

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
I have had great success with the ones I have, they tend to draw a lot of fire. Though your really need to keep them packed together to make good use of their abilities, or mix them and run them base to base with normal termies to bump their toughness.

Can you mix regular Termie and DW Knight units?

They cant mix in but there rule only requires you to have models it spreads to any model touching two of them, you can help boost some other termies if there numbers get low which can be really handy.

I suppose, it just seems like a waste. Yeah, they get a bonus in toughness, but you are now restricted in movement if you want to keep that +1 T.

Well, I'd made them a bit more expensive and gave them 2 wounds each, just like Paladins.
After all, they are only Termies and rolling 1's is the end of the world for them.

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
I have had great success with the ones I have, they tend to draw a lot of fire. Though your really need to keep them packed together to make good use of their abilities, or mix them and run them base to base with normal termies to bump their toughness.

Can you mix regular Termie and DW Knight units?

They cant mix in but there rule only requires you to have models it spreads to any model touching two of them, you can help boost some other termies if there numbers get low which can be really handy.

Wait what you can do what?

Bishop F Gantry wrote:

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
I have had great success with the ones I have, they tend to draw a lot of fire. Though your really need to keep them packed together to make good use of their abilities, or mix them and run them base to base with normal termies to bump their toughness.

Can you mix regular Termie and DW Knight units?

They cant mix in but there rule only requires you to have models it spreads to any model touching two of them, you can help boost some other termies if there numbers get low which can be really handy.

Wait what you can do what?

Any model in Base Contact with 2 DW Knights gets +! T

I like them as they are reliable. Their Smite Mode means that whatever big nasty the enemy brings you pretty much have an answer to. Even without that, they're decent, tough and dangerous, but it's in their 'I want it dead yesterday' role that they really shine.

They're Assault Terminators, with all the problems that brings.
The original slow assault unit that GW seems to love inserting into every codex.

Assault Terminators are situationaly useful, and Deathwing Knights are a further situationaly useful variant on that.

+1 Toughness if you bunch up; but it makes you more susceptible to blasts and templates.
S6 AP4 and once per game S10 AP2; but at the expense of always on S8 AP2 hammers

Out of curiosity, I run them normally in a Land Raider with a Company Master with a Powerfield Generator. Now that I think about it, he more or less ruins their AP 2 weapons, doesn't he? :/

 jreilly89 wrote:
Out of curiosity, I run them normally in a Land Raider with a Company Master with a Powerfield Generator. Now that I think about it, he more or less ruins their AP 2 weapons, doesn't he? :/

Correct. I'd just leave them in the Landraider by themselves.

I don't normally field a company master to begin with preferring either a name character (Azarel, Belial or Samual) or just a librarian. The PFG is best used with a cheap HQ, or Techmarine to bolster tactical squads.


(a favorite tactic of mine, is to have a tech marine on bike, with PFG following my Imperial Knight...)

Dark angels are all round terrible, anyone who expects to do very well with dark Angels should be sadly mistaken. The deathwing knights are okay but their in a codex of useless units and bad rules.

GDub clearly has no intention of ever making the da's work. Here's hoping things get better once forge world releases 30k hh rules for them. Their hands down the worst of the 6th ed books after tempestus, orks, and vanilla nids. And should be first in line for a new 6.5 revision when gw finishes moving everyone to hardback in february - March.

I don't think they are overrated because as far as I know, they are considered even worse than tactical termies, who are pretty damn bad.

I've had great success using them to the point where people flat out run away or focus a ridiculous amount of fire power on them. Typically run them with a LRR with a chaplin or Lib and rush a MC

 BoomWolf wrote:
I don't think they are overrated because as far as I know, they are considered even worse than tactical termies, who are pretty damn bad.

no tactical termites are worse, a lot worse. In general all terminators suck but dwk's are actually some of the better ones out there. Their easily third in line, but that point is irrelevant because the rest of the dex is so bloody awful.