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Nid players, what base gun do you use on your termagants?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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What free gun is the best to use on termagants?
Fleshborers
Spinefists
Spike Rifles

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Made in us
Warning From Magnus? Not Listening!





IL

Hey everyone. I wanted to see what the community thought about the free guns for termagants: fleshborers, spinefists, and spike rifles. Obviously there are some different calculations when comparing paying for devilgants, so I just want to leave that option out for now.
What is objectively the best gun to run? I would love to see the math or subjective reasoning behind your choices as well.
Here's what I've worked out on my own, focusing on the 2 most commonly faced enemies:

Against GEQ, the numbers work out like this -
FB: 0.5 x 0.667 = 0.333 unsaved wounds
SF: 0.75 x 0.5 = 0.375 unsaved wounds
SR: 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.667 = 0.167 unsaved wounds
Spinefists seem to be the best against T3, 5+. However, I have no idea how to calculate in the extra 6" of range that the spike rifles provide. I wouldn't think that it would double the number of wounds (and thus tie the spinefists), so I would have to go with spinefists in this category.

Against MEQ -
FB: 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.333 = 0.083 unsaved wounds
SF: 0.75 x 0.333 x 0.333 = 0.083 unsaved wounds
SR: 0.5 x 0.333 x 0.333 = 0.056 unsaved wounds
Against marines it is tied between the fleshborer and the spinefists. Again, I don't know how much the extra range for the spike rifles would help.
Based on these two most common enemies it would seem that spinefists are the best choice.

However, there are two other things to take into account though: AV10 and T5.

Against AV10, the fleshborer has a distinct advantage -
FB: 0.5 x 0.167 = 0.083 glances
SF: 0.75 x 0 = 0
SR: 0.5 x 0 = 0
Fleshborers have the same chance of glancing AV10 as they do killing a marine.

Against T5 -
FB: 0.5 x 0.333 = 0.167 wounds
SF: 0.75 x 0.167 = 0.125 wounds
SR: 0.5 x 0.167 = 0.083 wounds
Once again, the fleshborers win.

It is important to note that T5 is obviously not as common as MEQ and GEQ. So how often will the advantage in T5 override the disadvantage against GEQ? The ability to hurt AV10 is great, but how often do you want your terms to be shooting at vehicles instead of infantry?

I'd love to hear the thoughts of other nid players (and anyone else). What do you think the best option is? Or am I just overthinking things?

*edit: thanks for the catch adamsouza*

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/20 21:29:44


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I do favor the fleshborer over the others. But it can be hard to quantify the value of the extra 6" of range for the Spike Rifles. A warlord's tactics in employing the troops properly and accordingly towards their preferred targets can make or break any unit on the battlefield.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/20 21:16:41


Cowards will be shot! Survivors will be shot again!

 
   
Made in us
Gargantuan Gargant





New Bedford, MA USA

I assume you mean T5 instead of S5 ?

Nice comparison there. I've always went with fleshborers. According to your math they are generally the better choice.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





If there's a convincing argument for anything except Fleshborerers, I'm not sure what it is.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


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When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Cheyenne WY

 Freytag93 wrote:
Hey everyone. I wanted to see what the community thought about the free guns for termagants: fleshborers, spinefists, and spike rifles. Obviously there are some different calculations when comparing paying for devilgants, so I just want to leave that option out for now.
What is objectively the best gun to run? I would love to see the math or subjective reasoning behind your choices as well.
Here's what I've worked out on my own, focusing on the 2 most commonly faced enemies:

Against GEQ, the numbers work out like this -
FB: 0.5 x 0.667 = 0.333 unsaved wounds
SF: 0.75 x 0.5 = 0.375 unsaved wounds
SR: 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.667 = 0.167 unsaved wounds
Spinefists seem to be the best against T3, 5+. However, I have no idea how to calculate in the extra 6" of range that the spike rifles provide. I wouldn't think that it would double the number of wounds (and thus tie the spinefists), so I would have to go with spinefists in this category.

Against MEQ -
FB: 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.333 = 0.083 unsaved wounds
SF: 0.75 x 0.333 x 0.333 = 0.083 unsaved wounds
SR: 0.5 x 0.333 x 0.333 = 0.056 unsaved wounds
Against marines it is tied between the fleshborer and the spinefists. Again, I don't know how much the extra range for the spike rifles would help.
Based on these two most common enemies it would seem that spinefists are the best choice.

However, there are two other things to take into account though: AV10 and T5.

Against AV10, the fleshborer has a distinct advantage -
FB: 0.5 x 0.167 = 0.083 glances
SF: 0.75 x 0 = 0
SR: 0.5 x 0 = 0
Fleshborers have the same chance of glancing AV10 as they do killing a marine.

Against T5 -
FB: 0.5 x 0.333 = 0.167 wounds
SF: 0.75 x 0.167 = 0.125 wounds
SR: 0.5 x 0.167 = 0.083 wounds
Once again, the fleshborers win.

It is important to note that T5 is obviously not as common as MEQ and GEQ. So how often will the advantage in T5 override the disadvantage against GEQ? The ability to hurt AV10 is great, but how often do you want your terms to be shooting at vehicles instead of infantry?

I'd love to hear the thoughts of other nid players (and anyone else). What do you think the best option is? Or am I just overthinking things?

*edit: thanks for the catch adamsouza*


Yeah, by the math the difference is Tiny. I went Spinefists, but that is because of the look. The only reason I have Any vanilla is for Tervigon to pop out (x21) The fact the Borer looks like a gun bugs me to no end. Spinefists at least look like a weird bio-weapon (to me )

The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER 
   
Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




Fleshborers

 DarknessEternal wrote:
If there's a convincing argument for anything except Fleshborerers, I'm not sure what it is.


There is no convincing mathematical argument for any free choice but fleshborers. The only potentially convincing argument is found directly above.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/21 04:40:03


 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Virginia

Fleshborers are typically what I use, with 10 of them rocking Devourers. But I do personally like Spinefists, since I don't rely on Termagants to pop vehicles.

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Made in ca
Sneaky Lictor



oromocto

Just 20 FB with 10 DEV's it is cost effective and drowns the enemy inf in shots. Some of the other weapons have niches but at then end of the day FB are the most well rounded choice.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/23 02:25:37


 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





I prefer the range of the SR as I tend to think in general going from range 12 to range 18 is more useful than doing more damage. Especially on horde troops because if you imagine a brood of 30 models gets to 9" away... in reality that might mean only 10 models are actually within 12", but you'll probably have the entire brood within 18".

It's really a huge difference to how many shots you get off in a game.

BUT, I don't really care that much when it comes to Termagants... so I just equip mine with Fleshborers because that's what comes in the snap fit termagant box and I prefer the snap fits to the multipose ones.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/23 02:53:31


 
   
Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I prefer the range of the SR as I tend to think in general going from range 12 to range 18 is more useful than doing more damage. Especially on horde troops because if you imagine a brood of 30 models gets to 9" away... in reality that might mean only 10 models are actually within 12", but you'll probably have the entire brood within 18".

It's really a huge difference to how many shots you get off in a game.

BUT, I don't really care that much when it comes to Termagants... so I just equip mine with Fleshborers because that's what comes in the snap fit termagant box and I prefer the snap fits to the multipose ones.


There is a snapfit Termagaunt box.....oh my...
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





I like the snap fits, they are cheaper ($2.80AUD per gaunt vs $4AUD per gaunt), in the context of a whole horde they look just as good and they are soooo much faster to assemble. Cleaning mould lines off all the little bits and bobs of the multipose ones, then assembling those annoying 2 part heads, it's very time consuming for a model that is only worth 4pts.

Much prefer the snap fits, I just use the multipose for devourers.
   
Made in gb
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Glasgow, Scotland

Fleshborers. My first 10 were snapfits that can in Battle for Macragge and I wanted a full squad of 30 so I built the rest with Fleshborers.

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