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2014/11/21 19:47:54
Subject: Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
And are Devil Dogs good? They look good on paper with their 24 inch range Melta blast, And not too expensive either. Would a unit of 3 of them be good for anti-tank duties? Speeding arround and shooting at the enemies tanks in their back area.
2014/11/21 19:53:44
Subject: Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
Devil Dogs are rather expensive for what they offer, they need their shot to hit within 12" to get the double-pen, and will usually be priority targets, while the single shot of the melta cannon often will simply be saved against (particularly against jinking skimmers). You can give it a multimelta to help with that and get two shots in, but then its real expensive and misses a lot anyway.
A lot also depends on the vehicles you're trying to engage. If you're talking about a Land Raider, then a command squad with 4 meltaguns issuing itself "Bring it Down" is hard to beat. If you're talking about stuff like light/medium armored transports, massed autocannon fire is really what you're gonna want. Vendettas are good generalist anti-tank, but as flyers will start in reserve and may not be on the table when you need them.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2014/11/21 20:05:37
Subject: Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
Well, Vendetta isent an option for me, I'v decided to try and not use any flyers for my Guard army, It will be mostly infantry on foot, With some mixed tank support. Having quite fun with it so far! First time I actualy enjoyed painting ^_^
I like the Hellhound and it's variants, They all seem rather good. Yes, Short range, But they are small and quick and seem like they would mostly be overlooked by the opponent due to other more dangerous targets letting them get in close! And they dont feel that expensive either..
A command squad with meltas.. That would be expensive in moneys, Having to buy the expensive melta gunner and plasma gunner kit that gives you one of each.. And.. Seems dangerous too, Since the command squad would be squished easily and quickly..
2014/11/21 20:09:48
Subject: Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
I think devil dogs are good for what they bring to the table, BUT I think that they should be used in support of instead of being the main source of anti-armor.
Some of the Leman Russ variants you may want to look at and maybe some HWT's for a primary source of anti-armor.
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
2014/11/21 20:49:15
Subject: Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
King Pariah wrote: I think devil dogs are good for what they bring to the table, BUT I think that they should be used in support of instead of being the main source of anti-armor.
Some of the Leman Russ variants you may want to look at and maybe some HWT's for a primary source of anti-armor.
After experimentation, I think the hellhound variants need to be kept in reserve. They're too pricey and too weakly armored to survive the opening salvo, but by turns 2-4 you can target the heavy enemy AT units, and the hellhounds/devildogs can counter attack with their speed.
"Bringer of death, speak your name, For you are my life, and the foe's death." - Litany of the Lasgun
2500 points
1500 points
1250 points
1000 points
2014/11/21 20:50:12
Subject: Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
I dont want too many Leman Russes. My group tries to keep the AV 14 vehicle ammount low, So I think 2 or 3 russes at most would be good. And Heavy Weapons Teams just seem like they would miss so much.. Though I do plan on having a group of 3 lascannons in each of my two platoons. Might get more platoons later..
2014/11/21 21:19:22
Subject: Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
I know you said no flyers, but I have to put this out there.
Avenger Strike Fighter.
Comes Stock w/ Str 6 Heavy 7 shots and two Lascannons.
Can put three really good weapons on it
Missile launcher pairs with the Lascannon for great heavy vehicle hunting
Auto Cannons can make it put out 4 str 7 shots, with 2 str 9. Great mediums. or 4 str 7, 1 str 9 and 7 str 6.
Multilasers are great medium/light vehicle killers. Why? 13 str 6 shots at BS 4 will kill most av 12 or lower. with a single lascannon to kill it off. Also makes Infantry cry.
Its easy to kill, but, man is it fun.
5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
2014/11/21 22:41:56
Subject: Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
Verviedi wrote: Your group tries to keep AV14 amounts low?
Take 6 LRMBTs. They won't have good counters.
Why stop there?
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2014/11/22 01:13:04
Subject: Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
I've tried it and wouldn't recommend it. There are too many problems and too many things that can go wrong:
- You're relying on getting the reserve rolls when you need them (and, even if they come in on turn 2, that's still time for your opponents vehicles to advance 18" or more towards you).
- You're relying on them DSing successfully (far from guaranteed - especially since they no longer get a reroll *and* you're trying to DS within 6" of your target)
- You're relying on them hitting with just 2 melta shots.
- You're relying on those melta shots to penetrate.
- You're relying on at least one penetrate getting through any Jink. cover or invulnerable save the vehicle might have.
- You're relying on then rolling a 5 or 6 and destroying the vehicle.
Since I have the models, I've been trying 2 squads of these guys, and they just don't do much. When they're not arriving late to the party, they're mishapping, scattering out of melta range, missing with their meltaguns, having the damage prevented by Jink or invulnerable saves, rolling nothing but 'Crew Shaken' on the damage chart, or finding that the only worthwhile targets are Fliers or melta-immune Land Raiders.
And, of course, this isn't a cheap unit. Especially for IG, 90pts is a lot of points to spend on a squad that probably won't do anything and will die next turn regardless. Even more so when you're paying for crap you don't want (yey for S3 AP3 guns...), rather than stuff which might come in handy (like the old rerolling DS ability).
TL DR: Storm troopers suffer from being and overpriced and unreliable suicide-melta unit, in an edition where meltas are bad to begin with and every vehicle and their dog seems to have a Jink save.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2014/11/22 13:32:58
Subject: Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
There's several decent options in the codex, although maybe not an amazing option that trumps the rest. It's when you start combining Orders and Divination powers from a Primaris Psyker that average/decent options can really perform.
I'm a big fan of Vets in Chimeras with a couple of special weapons, I think they are great value for what they do although they probably won't be your main anti tank.
I also quite like Pask in a Punisher. Those 20 shots are now Rending, you get Preferred Enemy and you get to re-roll your armour pens. If you aren't going against much AV14 then that's pretty deadly.
2014/11/22 13:34:18
Subject: Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
Melta Vets in a Taurox work fine, if you're fast enough.
Heavy Weapon Teams with Missile Launchers or Lascannons, with Orders and luck, will perform.
Deep striking Tempestus (take an Inquisitor and Servo Skulls.)
Against fliers, I say Hydra. Don't let the haters convince you otherwise, the Hydra is awesome. Hide one with a Basilisk behind and ADL and profit. Also note the Basilisk is S9 Ordinance Barrage, so it can take off a hull point with relative reliability
2014/11/22 14:49:52
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
A couple of heavy weapon squads armed with las cannons next to a senior officer that issues the ignore cover order. In my army I use Creed for the extra order. This has been very effective for me.
2014/11/22 14:51:27
Subject: Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
ryuken87 wrote: I'm a big fan of Vets in Chimeras with a couple of special weapons, I think they are great value for what they do although they probably won't be your main anti tank.
What builds would you recommend for them?
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2014/11/22 17:01:41
Subject: Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
When I run vets I always give them grenadiers and run either 3 metlas or three plasmas. For so added fun I also add demotions to the metlas. What squads I bring depend a little on who I am playing and if my strategy is to get close or not that game, but I try to always bring at least two squads of them. I find these to be a good do of fun and effective at both harassing and focusing specific targets.
2014/11/22 17:17:13
Subject: Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
Santange11 wrote: When I run vets I always give them grenadiers and run either 3 metlas or three plasmas. For so added fun I also add demotions to the metlas. What squads I bring depend a little on who I am playing and if my strategy is to get close or not that game, but I try to always bring at least two squads of them. I find these to be a good do of fun and effective at both harassing and focusing specific targets.
In terms of the melta vets, I've sometimes seen people run 2 meltas and a heavy flamer (along with Grenadiers and Demolitions).
Any merit to that, or is it better to just have a single weapon choice?
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2014/11/22 17:23:09
Subject: Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
Verviedi wrote: Your group tries to keep AV14 amounts low?
Take 6 LRMBTs. They won't have good counters.
Ahh. The response typical of so many modern 40K players........
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
2014/11/22 19:47:16
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
LRBTs kinda suck unless you are facing foot marines. One big shot isnt that good especially when you can deck other variants out with an obscene amount of firepower.
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
2014/11/22 19:55:49
Subject: Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
There's a leman Russ for every use. Vanquisher hull is a real cash opener with that huge main gun.
If it does hit that is mind
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
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I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
2014/11/22 20:26:46
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
I'd recommend a FW Vanquisher. Twin-linking the main gun is a nice bonus.
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
2014/11/22 21:30:56
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
How about a FW thunderer siege tank? Cheap AV14, demolisher cannon, and faster then LRBT variants.
Alternatively, how about a FW medusa siege tank? AV12 chimera chasis and medusa siege cannon. For +5 pts. you can upgrade to bastion breacher shells which makes AV14 look like wet paper mache.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/22 21:32:47
2014/11/22 21:55:05
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
The problem with the vanquisher (FW or codex) is that the 7th edition damage table is so hard on single-shot weapons. You only destroy a target on a 6 with a vanquisher shot, so most of the time you're just taking off a single hull point like with any other weapon. And you've spent 150-200 points to take off that single hull point, which is not a very good deal. You really don't want a 150-200 point unit that slowly grinds down a single target's HP over an entire 5-7 turn game. What you want is a high volume of fire from efficient guns that pay as little as possible per HP stripped, so that you can kill a target in a single round of fire even without the damage table. Or D-weapons, of course.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/22 21:56:22
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2014/11/22 22:21:40
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum, Whats our best anti-tank..?
Peregrine wrote: The problem with the vanquisher (FW or codex) is that the 7th edition damage table is so hard on single-shot weapons. You only destroy a target on a 6 with a vanquisher shot, so most of the time you're just taking off a single hull point like with any other weapon. And you've spent 150-200 points to take off that single hull point, which is not a very good deal. You really don't want a 150-200 point unit that slowly grinds down a single target's HP over an entire 5-7 turn game. What you want is a high volume of fire from efficient guns that pay as little as possible per HP stripped, so that you can kill a target in a single round of fire even without the damage table. Or D-weapons, of course.
I really hate the new damage chart.
It makes penetrating hits far too insignificant. These are supposed to represent serious damage to the vehicle, yet all they seem to do is make the crew spill their tea.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.