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It makes me sad when people say stuff like "All GW stores suck" and "Blah blah only GW"
A GW store is my FLGS. There are no other game stores I feel comfortable going to in my area, as what I've seen at those stores it's all adults playing games I don't care about. If all FLGS are like this, I don't know why people trash GW and get away with it.

The only real restrictions in place at my FLGS are that all models must be at least 75% GW. This is an easy restriction to bypass, and the GW range has more than enough bits for conversions.

There are 3 tables at the store I frequent. 1 demo table, 1 40k/fantasy table, and 1 40k table. There is almost always a table open, and you get to see great armies battling it out.


So why do people trash GW stores? I only buy about 50% of my stuff there, the rest is from Amazon. Can someone please explain/criticize/have a megahellargument)

The general reason for the distinction is that, as the name implies, at a GW Store you play GW games with GW minis. At a non-GW LGS, you can usually play Deadzone, Infinity, even D&D or MTG, with whatever models or rules you want.

I don't think anyone hates GW stores universally. I may not be the biggest fan of the company as a business, but my nearest GW always seems like a rather decent place; quite a lot out room, the manager is personable and the few times I've played there, I've had a good time

From not having a GW store within reasonable driving distance (I'm not going to drive 1.5 hours and pay tolls when I have a closer store I can shop/play at), I think it comes down to a few things.

1. 50-75% of models must be GW - this forbids players who have combined random assorted bits and pieces from various other games to make awesome looking conversions. Additionally, GW used to have rules about making your own vehicles out of junk (they had a tutorial on making a skimmer out of an old stick deodorant.
2. It's "My way or the Highway": Since it is a store owned by GW, the only games you'll be allowed to play there are GW games. Furthermore, the store (most likely) have rules they must follow, and the employees will be pushing sales. Now granted, the whole purpose of the business is to make money, and non-GW stores probably push sales as well.

From my experience at a non-GW store, I've seen awesome models that have less than 1% GW bits, and I've never been pressured (by the staff) to make purchases.

There might be other reasons, but none that I know of. I don't trash GW stores, but that's because the only things I know about them is from listening to people complain.

Verviedi wrote:
It makes me sad when people say stuff like "All GW stores suck" and "Blah blah only GW"
A GW store is my FLGS. There are no other game stores I feel comfortable going to in my area, as what I've seen at those stores it's all adults playing games I don't care about. If all FLGS are like this, I don't know why people trash GW and get away with it.

The only real restrictions in place at my FLGS are that all models must be at least 75% GW. This is an easy restriction to bypass, and the GW range has more than enough bits for conversions.

There are 3 tables at the store I frequent. 1 demo table, 1 40k/fantasy table, and 1 40k table. There is almost always a table open, and you get to see great armies battling it out.


So why do people trash GW stores? I only buy about 50% of my stuff there, the rest is from Amazon. Can someone please explain/criticize/have a megahellargument)

People dislike GW stores exactly because of the reasons that you stated, they have a very limited number of tables (2 whole tables! uau!), are filled with kids and only allow GW approved games (like you said yourself, you have 2 40k / Fantasy tables, what if I wan't to play BFG, or Gothic or BB?), using exclusively GW minis (which is fair enough since its their store so abide by their rules, but people don't have to like it).

In a FLGS you generally have a much higher number of tables, you can play whatever you like with whatever miniatures you like and you also generally have a higher age average for the players present since for some reason parents don't treat FLGS like they are free daycare like they do with GW stores.

If both are available, there isn't a single reason why anyone would prefer a GW store over a FLGS.

Another thing worth mentioning is that in the UK, the FLGS is a pretty rare thing, whereas in America and possibly Europe, the GW store is comparatively rare. So over there, you guys have more choice and so the advantages of LGS are easier to see, while on this side of the pond a GW is all we have in most places. There are plenty of stockists, but very few that actually offer a venue to play/hobby in.

PhantomViper wrote:

Verviedi wrote:
It makes me sad when people say stuff like "All GW stores suck" and "Blah blah only GW"
A GW store is my FLGS. There are no other game stores I feel comfortable going to in my area, as what I've seen at those stores it's all adults playing games I don't care about. If all FLGS are like this, I don't know why people trash GW and get away with it.

The only real restrictions in place at my FLGS are that all models must be at least 75% GW. This is an easy restriction to bypass, and the GW range has more than enough bits for conversions.

There are 3 tables at the store I frequent. 1 demo table, 1 40k/fantasy table, and 1 40k table. There is almost always a table open, and you get to see great armies battling it out.


So why do people trash GW stores? I only buy about 50% of my stuff there, the rest is from Amazon. Can someone please explain/criticize/have a megahellargument)

People dislike GW stores exactly because of the reasons that you stated, they have a very limited number of tables (2 whole tables! uau!),That's really all the store needs. There's never more than 8 people. are filled with kids Explain why this is bad. and only allow GW approved games (like you said yourself, you have 2 40k / Fantasy tables, what if I wan't to play BFG, or Gothic or BB?Well, I don't. I have no wish to play dead games it's impossible to get models for.), using exclusively GW minis (which is fair enough since its their store so abide by their rules, but people don't have to like it).So hate for the purpose of hate?

In a FLGS you generally have a much higher number of tables, Which are occupied by people playing games I don't care about you can play whatever you like with whatever miniatures you like Well, I want to play 40K using GW miniatures. and you also generally have a higher age average for the players present since for some reason parents don't treat FLGS like they are free daycare like they do with GW stores. So I'll be excluded from everything? Sounds like the only way to make people not discrimate is to figuratively take a nuke to a knife fight and roll out the Serpent/Wraithknight Spam + 2+ rerollable list.

If both are available, there isn't a single reason why anyone would prefer a GW store over a FLGS....Ability to play dead games, discrimination without consequence, and the ability to run proxies like toy cars for Land Raiders? Nope.

For me, it would be less than great atmosphere at the last 2 GW I went to. (That could have changed, but to far away now.)

Prices are hard to get behind.
Small mini selection, and a hard line against alternatives.
This is understandable but sad, as there selection for some army's kinda sucks.

In the end they offer nothing that a good Store offering lots of difernt brands cannot.
GW could do much more I think, but at least last time I was in one feel less than welcome.
Go back to when i started and I thaght they where great stores, so I dunno what changed.

Verviedi wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

Verviedi wrote:
It makes me sad when people say stuff like "All GW stores suck" and "Blah blah only GW"
A GW store is my FLGS. There are no other game stores I feel comfortable going to in my area, as what I've seen at those stores it's all adults playing games I don't care about. If all FLGS are like this, I don't know why people trash GW and get away with it.

The only real restrictions in place at my FLGS are that all models must be at least 75% GW. This is an easy restriction to bypass, and the GW range has more than enough bits for conversions.

There are 3 tables at the store I frequent. 1 demo table, 1 40k/fantasy table, and 1 40k table. There is almost always a table open, and you get to see great armies battling it out.


So why do people trash GW stores? I only buy about 50% of my stuff there, the rest is from Amazon. Can someone please explain/criticize/have a megahellargument)

People dislike GW stores exactly because of the reasons that you stated, they have a very limited number of tables (2 whole tables! uau!),That's really all the store needs. There's never more than 8 people. are filled with kids Explain why this is bad. and only allow GW approved games (like you said yourself, you have 2 40k / Fantasy tables, what if I wan't to play BFG, or Gothic or BB?Well, I don't. I have no wish to play dead games it's impossible to get models for.), using exclusively GW minis (which is fair enough since its their store so abide by their rules, but people don't have to like it).So hate for the purpose of hate?

In a FLGS you generally have a much higher number of tables, Which are occupied by people playing games I don't care about you can play whatever you like with whatever miniatures you like Well, I want to play 40K using GW miniatures. and you also generally have a higher age average for the players present since for some reason parents don't treat FLGS like they are free daycare like they do with GW stores. So I'll be excluded from everything? Sounds like the only way to make people not discrimate is to figuratively take a nuke to a knife fight and roll out the Serpent/Wraithknight Spam + 2+ rerollable list.

If both are available, there isn't a single reason why anyone would prefer a GW store over a FLGS....Ability to play dead games, discrimination without consequence, and the ability to run proxies like toy cars for Land Raiders? Nope.

The only thing I can think of about the children thing is that it might be a cultural difference.

If I just want to play a GW game, my local GW store is great...unless I arrive after a certain time or don't reserve in advance, as the two game tables will be filled.

The manager of the local store is great. The people playing are generally great (there's always the one or two 'unpleasant' folks every game store has). It carries all but a hand full of GW products. But that lack of table space (5 tables: 2 game, 1 product display, 2 craft) really kills things. By comparison, other local game stores have: great management, generally great players, wider selection of products (Mantic, PP, WotC, FF...), sometimes at a discount, and enough table space that they can run a MtG tournament and still have 2-3 tables for wargames, rpgs, whatever.

The GWs stores that have been in this area have all been closet sized with pushy sales people and idiotic rules. Also, they were in malls. tromping through a mall with all of my models dodging fat tourists was always a real hassle.

The problem with a store full of kids is some of them are completely unsupervised and it was a regular thing to have peoples models picked up and sometimes broken/stolen. Outside people just do not understand the time and money invested in a single well-painted model, mush less the whole table full of them. I've seen negligent children knock an entire display board of OOP Chaos Dwarves off of a table onto a concrete floor.

Also, in my usual FLGS we regularly had 20+ people playing in there back in the days when 40k was still fun. The GW store here (before it was closed) couldn't even have had that many people IN the store, much less accommodate them all gaming.

If all you want is a place to play only 40k with people who only want to play 40k, (or Fantasy, I suppose) then a GW store is fine.

If you enjoy models from other ranges in your 40k army, or play any of the myriad of other wonderful games out there, a FLGS is often superior, if not far superior depending on the specific store.

I had the wonderful opportunity to visit a LGS in Portland during a visit, and to my surprise, they had a licensed gaming area. To me, that's huge. Further, from personal experience, the LGS often larger, with either more tables, or just more space to exist in. Couple that with cheaper prices, more variety, and a one stop shop for all my gaming needs (inclusing RPGs, board games, and a variety of modelling supplies), the GW store really starts to pale.

But, as stated earlier, if the only thing you care about is playing 40k with other people who only want to play 40k with armies using nothing but official Citadel miniatures, then a GW store will be fine.

I visited one GW store near my mom's house, to show her what my new hobby was just because she gets a kick out of that kind of stuff. The attendent saleman saw me, a thirty-something, with a little old lady, smelled blood, and proceeded to aggressivley try to sell me stuff. I told him we were just killing some time, having a look...the pushy attempts at salesmanship did not end, so we politely left.

That's one story about one particular salesman at one particular GW store, but it was enough to give me a bad taste in my mouth about GW stores.

Also, that store had quite a bit less GW stuff in stock than my flgs, there was no discount, and obviously noone there was playing D&D, MtG, Flames of War, Hail Caesar, Warmachine/Hordes, etc, etc.

Variety is the spice of life.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
The GWs stores that have been in this area have all been closet sized with pushy sales people and idiotic rules.

Ditto. I'm sure good GW stores exist, but I've never seen them. Maybe they should export some of these mythical UK GW stores that I keep hearing the brits rave about.

Also, the self-serving rules about only using GW models really annoys me. A majority of the players around my area use conversion models, and I like playing with them. This whole "40k must use GW models" attitude really bothers me.

Verviedi wrote:
People dislike GW stores exactly because of the reasons that you stated, they have a very limited number of tables (2 whole tables! uau!),That's really all the store needs. There's never more than 8 people.

That's a very distinct lack of players to game with as well as an indication that there simply isn't interest in the area for the game. Why is 2 tables and 8 people in the store better than 10 tables and 40 people?

It seems like the entire argument/point being made is that 2 tables and 8 people is all you need if that's all you want.

Seems a little short-sighted if you ask me, but if someone's content, then power to them I suppose.

Personally, I'd rather a larger scene to game with. More variety, more games, more laughs, more everything.

 jonolikespie wrote:

Verviedi wrote:
People dislike GW stores exactly because of the reasons that you stated, they have a very limited number of tables (2 whole tables! uau!),That's really all the store needs. There's never more than 8 people.

That's a very distinct lack of players to game with as well as an indication that there simply isn't interest in the area for the game. Why is 2 tables and 8 people in the store better than 10 tables and 40 people?

Bear in mind that there are five to six other stores within a 2 hour radius.
Two of those stores have a lot of tables with fairly well-done terrain and regular games/tournaments.

As it stands there are a few people that are regulars and use the GW shop as a place to get games in because it is an easier place to meet up and ensure that you can get a game than those other stores, which will not "hold" tables or in some cases require a fee for holding a table.

Here's the big difference. At a FLGS, you can get to know the owner, you can talk about other games, you can look at things that do not involve Warhammer.

At GW, you can see their product range, you can see their models, you can talk with their sales associate who will be trying to sell you something.

It's a different atmosphere. I live within 30 minutes of 2 GW stores and will drive 45 minutes to get back to my old FLGS that was close to where I used to live. Occasionally, I do go to the GW stores, but find there's less of a community and thus don't stay.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Here's the big difference. At a FLGS, you can get to know the owner, you can talk about other games, you can look at things that do not involve Warhammer.

At GW, you can see their product range, you can see their models, you can talk with their sales associate who will be trying to sell you something.

It's a different atmosphere. I live within 30 minutes of 2 GW stores and will drive 45 minutes to get back to my old FLGS that was close to where I used to live. Occasionally, I do go to the GW stores, but find there's less of a community and thus don't stay.

Yeaaah, you really need to understand that there is no "absolute" in this case.

I would rather go to my GW than the nearest independent. The nearest independent is a dingy craphole that reeks of unwashed gamers while the GW is clean, well-kept, and fairly well ventilated as well resulting in less gamerfunk.

 Happyjew wrote:


1. 50-75% of models must be GW - this forbids players who have combined random assorted bits and pieces from various other games to make awesome looking conversions. Additionally, GW used to have rules about making your own vehicles out of junk (they had a tutorial on making a skimmer out of an old stick deodorant.

This isn't enforced.

PhantomViper wrote:

People dislike GW stores exactly because of the reasons that you stated, they have a very limited number of tables (2 whole tables! uau!), are filled with kids and only allow GW approved games (like you said yourself, you have 2 40k / Fantasy tables, what if I wan't to play BFG, or Gothic or BB?), using exclusively GW minis (which is fair enough since its their store so abide by their rules, but people don't have to like it).

In a FLGS you generally have a much higher number of tables, you can play whatever you like with whatever miniatures you like and you also generally have a higher age average for the players present since for some reason parents don't treat FLGS like they are free daycare like they do with GW stores.

If both are available, there isn't a single reason why anyone would prefer a GW store over a FLGS.

My old GW has 7 tables (well, 4 tables are so big you split them), my new one has 2 large tables, so guessing maybe 4 playable surfaces. My FLGS? 0. They only sell miniatures.

It depends entirely on the local store for me.

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:


1. 50-75% of models must be GW - this forbids players who have combined random assorted bits and pieces from various other games to make awesome looking conversions. Additionally, GW used to have rules about making your own vehicles out of junk (they had a tutorial on making a skimmer out of an old stick deodorant.

This isn't enforced.

Verviedi wrote:

People dislike GW stores exactly because of the reasons that you stated, they have a very limited number of tables (2 whole tables! uau!), are filled with kids and only allow GW approved games (like you said yourself, you have 2 40k / Fantasy tables, what if I wan't to play BFG, or Gothic or BB?), using exclusively GW minis (which is fair enough since its their store so abide by their rules, but people don't have to like it).

In a FLGS you generally have a much higher number of tables, you can play whatever you like with whatever miniatures you like and you also generally have a higher age average for the players present since for some reason parents don't treat FLGS like they are free daycare like they do with GW stores.

If both are available, there isn't a single reason why anyone would prefer a GW store over a FLGS.

My old GW has 7 tables (well, 4 tables are so big you split them), my new one has 2 large tables, so guessing maybe 4 playable surfaces. My FLGS? 0. They only sell miniatures.

It depends entirely on the local store for me.

2cd quote is broken. Somebody else (PhantomViper) said that originally.

Fixed it.

As far as I see it, GW store owners always have GW management on their backs. Even if they make good profit, they're badgered to do better. They have to sell a lot to keep their job. Even a small store can stay in business if management think it should stay, as the larger stores can bolster its numbers when the area is taken as a whole. GW store 'owners' are employees with a task and people watching their every move. No matter how well they do in the eyes of the customers, it's management they have to please.

Where-as, a FLGS has his/her friendly face on, as he can make more money with repeat custom.
If he can fit another table, he has to balance that against more stock. It's his choice, not management's. A LGS owner is usually just that, the owner. Their livelihood hangs on the store's success.

So you're more likely to find a FLGS than a FGW.

Also, GW stores sell GW stock. You can only play GW games there, with GW models.
LGS sell what they want. If enough customers will buy items from X, the store might start holding stock from X. You can play whatever the owner lets you play.

Just to add though, the GW staff in 3 GW stores near me are great. They don't badger or hassle, but will help and stay until someone new enters the store.
They'll follow the script when they have to, but switch to FLGS when they get a chance.

You said it yourself, in a FLGS you are likely to encounter adults playing games. Exactly what I am looking for, being 35 myself...

Also I just made bad experiences in GW stores. They mostly have no idea of anything beyond the standard game, are nerdy in the unnerving way (babbling something about the machine spirit EVERY FRIGGIN TIME I pay with a card and use the terminal) and try to get me to buy things I do not want.

Example: I wanted a set of tactical objectives cards and asked if they, by chance, still have a pack. He said "Yes, sure" and I was happy since they are not available anymore anywhere. The guy in line behind me shouted "I'll take one, too". Then he came back with the full set (Psi Cards, measure tape, dice, etc.) for zounds of Euro. I told him that I own all of those, except the objectives and I do not need all the other stuff. He told me to take it or leave it. In no way something terrible, but something that never happens in my FLGS.

 Murenius wrote:
You said it yourself, in a FLGS you are likely to encounter adults playing games. Exactly what I am looking for, being 35 myself...

This is a good point. When I visited a GW store, it was a tiny store with 3 tables, and cramped with what appeared to be high school age kids. I'm 39, and prefer to play closer to my age group...in fact, I'd feel quite wierd and maybe even creepy playing with someone below 21.

My FLGS has on order of 15 large tables in a big open space. They also have a younger crowd, but there are patrons in my age group. I typically play in a private residence in a small gaming group, but as someone closer to 40 than to 20, I'm just more comfortable playing closer to my age group if I want a pickup game.

GW stores are single purpose with typically very little table space. FLGS typically have multiple game support and much more table space.

The new GW store in Belconnen, Canberra I awesome. Manager Matt is really friendly. Lots of tables. Nice regulars. No pressure to buy things. Love it there, most comfortable FLGS I have ever frequented.
I think it really comes down to management, as they attract certain types of people etc.

 Rippy wrote:
The new GW store in Belconnen, Canberra I awesome. Manager Matt is really friendly. Lots of tables. Nice regulars. No pressure to buy things. Love it there, most comfortable FLGS I have ever frequented.
I think it really comes down to management, as they attract certain types of people etc.

That's true, the one in Frankfurt, Germany used to be better, but became really really bad. When I did a small order of one model and had it shipped there I had to call myself three times to find out when it was ready for pick up. I'd expect a good store to call or email me when the items are there... they had my contact data.

The main reason is because a FLGS is *gaming* store, for a variety of games, some I've never played but might give a try if I see people playing it.

A GW store is a *Warhammer* store, for two (three if you count Hobbit) games only, and everything is based around selling those two games.

In short it's the difference between being a "gamer" (or hobbyist if you prefer that term) and a "GW hobbyist". I personally would love to try a variety of games. I would play DZC, or Deadzone, or Bolt Action or historical games like DBA or one of the many Napoleonic or ACW rules, or Infinity or the variety of miniature board games (think Zombicide and similar). I wouldn't, even if I played and enjoyed them, just limit myself to 40k and Fantasy. There is so much more out there than Games Workshop, and IMHO I find it very sad and depressing that most of it is unknown to the masses, even at many FLGS where nobody has any idea what Infinity or Deadzone is.

GW stores are fine, if you have a small community, a couple tables support that and are strictly interested in GW product.

GW stores aren't fine if you want to see the whole of what's available. - try buying magnets or a reasonably priced X-Acto knife in a GW store...

The GW store in my area has 3 tables. One is always loaded up with boxes of the latest products. Another usually has minis set up for a quick demo game. Which leaves exactly one table for regular gaming. The tables are built using that plastic realm of battle crap. - Yes, I think the Realm of Battle boards are garbage. They look good, but rolling dice on it is so loud and just plain annoying.

By comparison, the FLGS I regularly go to has 7 tables always ready to go and another 6 on standby in the back in case it gets real busy. They have an incredible amount of terrain and even with that many tables, it's fairly quiet. Another FLGS that's close by has 20 Magic tables and around 20 "other" gaming tables at which you can find everything like 40k, X-wing and even D&D being played. The place is huge but they must have put sound dampening foam in the ceiling because it's relatively quiet. A third FLGS that's close by has 4 dedicated wargaming tables and 4 magic tables.

Each of the FLGS' run at least monthly tournaments. Sometimes more. The GW store has never had a tournament going that I can recall. Although they have done an escalation league once or twice in the past couple of years.

I think the FLGS' engage the community more with escalation leagues, tournaments, etc. Whereas the GW store is there for a clueless mom/dad to buy something for their child. Oh, and the FLGS tend to discount the product which a GW store will never do.

As far as adults vs kids: the first time I visited the FLGS I regularly game at I overheard a couple guys talking about how the "kids" were taking over the store by playing 40k. By "kids" they meant anyone under 50. I laughed and introduced myself as one of those "kid"s (I'm in my 40s) who played 40k. It's a good group.

GW stores to me feel very much like a bubble. You're in a niche within a niche. You like tabletop games, but you can't really talk about any of them except for the two (+ one corpse) games. That's not to say that I expect GW stores to advertise other games (obviously not), I just think FLGS do a much better job of covering all of the bases.

And maybe you only like 40k (hypotheticals here) and have absolutely no interest in even glancing at another game, but I think there's so much out there to see that an absolute faith in GW-only products is doing no one any good.

When I lived in North Carolina, I would visit one GW store and two FLGS. The GW store was fine, but it just felt like being in an Oakley sunglasses store or something- I felt willfully blind to waht else was going on in the community. And that's not to say the manager was a bad guy or that the customers weren't cool- I liked them all but I just want more than a cramped store with two tables with only the designated terrain and the designated copy-and-paste store. Of the two FLGS, one was a larger store that covered card and boardgames, and always had interesting subgames (things I had often never seen), and it felt much more like a community. The other store was smaller (MTG, 40k, and computer games), but I liked that one because it was something like a college group and again, wasn't revolved around GW-only.

So overall, I think a lot of FLGS have more going for them. That's not the fault of the managers, it's just the side effect of GW creating these boutique stores.

(I haven't been to the GW store where I live now so I can't make the comparison as well here).