Switch Theme:

Why do Skorne get such a bad rep?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




Northampton

So now I've finished my Cryx army, my local gaming club is starting a Journeyman league at the start of next year.

I've chosen Skorne for my second faction as I love painting large models, but after I chose my faction, I made some discoveries.

1: I am the ONLY Skorne player in my area.

We have 40+ Warmahordes players locally and I am the only Skorne player.

2: Skorne apparently have a bad rep in tourneys.

I've not seen Skorne in any tourney. Not even in Mk1.

3: Skorne are regarded as a weak faction.

I'm yet to find anyone who can give me any advice to the contrary.

4: The Skorne Community isn't stable.

I got in touch with Chain Attack's Trevor regarding this and the above subjects and apparently he has now migrated away from Skorne and onto Legion. He cited that the advice sections in the PP forums were woefully out of date and a lot of the info given was incorrect and probably given by novices of the faction claiming to be experts.

I'm not so much bothered where Skorne stand competitively, I just want to be able to play a few games, not get decked while enjoying the faction and enjoy being the only Skorne player in my area.

Are they so reviled that no one plays them? I have the BB, but it seems like the advice given by a lot of Internet sites is trying to lead me astray.

One example: Your first purchase should be a Shield Guard for Morghoul.

I think the Beast Handlers should be first as they seem to be as important as Menoth's Choir.

Am I going in the right direction?

Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right.
 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Brute is indeed an excellent purchase for morghoul. And yes, the beast handlers are number one purchase for skorne, but the brute is number two. Its for his no KD animus, the shield guard is incidental.

Skorne are not weak. They're just rather predictable. They ask the same questions everyone else does, they just ask them harder.

Bronze backs can kill anything they get their mat7 fists on. They're the Incredible Hulk of the Iron kingdoms.

You will also want the Krea, Nihilators, Cetratii, an Agonizer, and a Will breaker.

Check out the PP skorne forums for some more info.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







We get a bad rep?

I can't speak to your meta but Skorne isn't any weaker than any other faction. We don't have top-tier warcasters or a lot of board control, we have a tough and hard-hitting brick of muderous destruction.

Whoever told you to buy Morghul a Shield Guard was either a moron or didn't play the faction much. If he's taking enough fire that you need one your warbeasts aren't an immediate enough threat and you should be playing more aggressively. Your instinct to go for the Beast Handlers was completely correct, they're an essential support piece for any army planning to get anything out of their warbeasts and synergize brilliantly with the battle box (putting Abuse, Rush, and Enrage on a Cyclops Savage nets you a free 13" charge hitting with a POW 17 Reach weapon; we call this a 'Cyclops bullet'). The Mortitheurge Willbreaker (who adds a lot of options and mitigates Morghul's tiny control area), a Bronzeback Titan (who has fun interactions with Admonition and hits phenomenally hard), and a Basilisk Krea (whose Animus makes it much harder to pick your force apart with guns while you're crossing the table) are all great tools to have starting out.

Beyond that you probably want to start looking into infantry; Skorne is in many ways the Hordes equivalent of Khador; we have some great warbeasts, but we don't have the arsenal of tricks Circle and Legion have for running four or five heavies all the way full every turn with no frenzies, so at 35pts and beyond unless you're running some very specific builds armies tend to focus on infantry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Grey Templar wrote:
Skorne are not weak. They're just rather predictable. They ask the same questions everyone else does, they just ask them harder.


Internet lists do, certainly. Skorne has just as much variety of strategy as any main-sequence army and can be played plenty of different ways, but you tend to see one-dimensional Fury of Halaak or Morghul-beasts lists more often than wackier Rasheth-minions or EHexeris assassination trickery lists.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/29 03:52:35


Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




Northampton

Thanks for the advice.

I just don't get it though, why Skorne aren't as widely played.

I have access to three metas and again... I'm the only one.

I take pride in being the only one, but also a bit of worry as I think they may be as bad a faction as a lot of people make them out to be.

Either way... I welcome my Skorne Masters. It's time to inflict pain and chew bubblegum...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also...

I'm assuming that Skorne like playing hyper aggressively?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/29 08:57:59


Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Puscifer wrote:
Thanks for the advice.

I just don't get it though, why Skorne aren't as widely played.

I have access to three metas and again... I'm the only one.

I take pride in being the only one, but also a bit of worry as I think they may be as bad a faction as a lot of people make them out to be.

Either way... I welcome my Skorne Masters. It's time to inflict pain and chew bubblegum...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also...

I'm assuming that Skorne like playing hyper aggressively?


Yup.

The answer really is 'it's your local meta(s).' Skorne are actually quite popular here, for example.m

greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy

"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are" 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







Puscifer wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also...

I'm assuming that Skorne like playing hyper aggressively?


Most of the time. PMorghul definitely does, but Zaal wins on the counterattack and Rasheth and Hexeris are both comfortable playing the long game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My primary warcasters are Zaal (slow-paced attrition game), EMakeda (infantry rush backed by getting Molik Karn somewhere he has no business being), and EXerxis (STAMPEDE).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/29 09:23:00


Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in us
Cosmic Joe





The author of "Into the Storm" has Skorne as his secondary army. (Mercs being his #1 love.)



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Illinois

Puscifer wrote:

2: Skorne apparently have a bad rep in tourneys.

I've not seen Skorne in any tourney. Not even in Mk1.

First not seeing any skorne is probably a meta thing, every tournament I have gone to in Illinois I have seen at least one skorne player, excluding myself since I sometimes do bring skorne.

Puscifer wrote:
3: Skorne are regarded as a weak faction.

I'm yet to find anyone who can give me any advice to the contrary.

Skorne is a melee heavy army generally (they do have guns but a lot of people don't bring them in a lot of their lists) which makes them very susceptible to control casters. I am taking about the twins (denny and haley), eKrueger, etc. The general answer to control is guns. If eDenny uses her feat on my cyngar my answer will be just aim to shoot back, I am still probably not in the best situation but if I was playing my melee heavy skorne list I would be in a much worse situation since I can't move and therefore can't attack in melee unless the cryx player was nice enough to run all his models into my mine. Games with skorne vs control tend to go like this: First few turns lots of running to set up, then the other player uses their control (usually a feat) and gets the alpha strike on the skorne army, skorne player's turn the ability to counterattack is minimized due to being controlled (usually by a feat), then on the opponents turn, he hits the skorne army hard again. At this point the game really begins. Also generally a lot of player's problem when playing against control casters is they basically give up at this point. They lost too much stuff due to poor decisions or poor positioning and their moral is broken. I have noticed this a lot playing eHaley against people, they offer way too much of their army up to me and over my feat turn and turn after that I kill most or almost all of their stuff and they give up.

Skorne also doesn't have any top tier casters. If you look at casters in a vacuum and rate them next to each other skorne warlocks will not make the top 10 or whatever. This is largely a design choice I think. Skorne beasts are all really good (well expect the razor worm and the Rhinodon) and with beast handlers my opponents often get really jealous by how millage I can get out of my battlegroup every turn. The strength of the faction is the beasts, cool support models that can be game breaking (I love you agoniser, you wail at that colossal), and solid infantry not really its warlocks. The good news here is that other than eMorghoul (who sucks) all the skorne casters can potentially see play.

Also a lot of skorne defense tricks involve upkeep spells or defense animi which are both hard countered by purification (which is a spell). Trick here is to know this and not rely too much on them or take defense tec that isn't affected by purification. For example for protecting yourself against ranged attacks don't bring a krea bring shield guard(s) instead.

Puscifer wrote:
4: The Skorne Community isn't stable.

I got in touch with Chain Attack's Trevor regarding this and the above subjects and apparently he has now migrated away from Skorne and onto Legion. He cited that the advice sections in the PP forums were woefully out of date and a lot of the info given was incorrect and probably given by novices of the faction claiming to be experts.

A lot of those things are problems with forums in general really. But it is true to say that not as many players play skorne at the big tournaments and there doesn't seem to be as much traffic on the skorne forums as some of other faction forums. Not as many tactic guides, or outdated guides etc.

Puscifer wrote:
I'm not so much bothered where Skorne stand competitively, I just want to be able to play a few games, not get decked while enjoying the faction and enjoy being the only Skorne player in my area.

Are they so reviled that no one plays them? I have the BB, but it seems like the advice given by a lot of Internet sites is trying to lead me astray.

One example: Your first purchase should be a Shield Guard for Morghoul.

I think the Beast Handlers should be first as they seem to be as important as Menoth's Choir.

Am I going in the right direction?

Well if what they mean by shield guard is the Cyclops Brute then I would agree. Not necessarily for the shield guard but for the animus safe guard. Morghoul1 key weakness which often gets him killed is being knocked down which allows your opponent to ignore you high defense. Safe guard fixes that. Also shield guard is very useful for keeping your stuff alive and as I said earlier isn't affected by purification.

Also skorne players like to field lots of 'theme lists', which are either actual theme lists like Fist of Halaak or lists that have lots of models that work really well with a specific warlock but aren't generally seen outside that warlock (void spirits with Void Seer Mordikaar). Up side of this is that these list feel very thematic and fluffy, downside is that the lack of overlap between different 'theme lists' means having to buy a lot of more stuff if you want to play something else.

If you want to build for pMorghoul I would take a look at Cyclops Brute, Aptimus Marketh, and the Mortitheurge Willbreaker.

The willbreaker helps out pMorghoul a lot due to being able to force beasts that are outside of pMorghoul control area and Marketh helps out by being able to cast abuse or Admonition for you or use souls to upkeep adomination so you can save the fury.

Also take a look at Molik Karn or Tiberion, both are really good characters beasts in the running for the best in the game.

One last tip is try not to put too much support in a list, skorne does have a lot of really useful support like agonisers but those models ability to actually kill enemies is either nonexistent (the agoniser has no weapons) or very minimal.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/11/30 19:14:56


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Ranhothep did really well at WMW, so I really don't feel that they're that much weaker than other factions, if they're actually weaker at all.

Strength is difficult to properly assess, because it's hard to disentangle from popularity. There have been enough high-performing Skorne armies that I wouldn't be too worried about it, unless you plan on going to really large-scale conventions and the like for high-level competitive play, and even then, I don't think it's a huge concern.
   
Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




Northampton

Where can I find his army lists?

I'm not wanting to copy them, I'm just looking for ideas of what works together.

I've got an eXerxis list I want to try, but it needs more testing.

Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?215326-The-trip-to-WMW

This is his set of army lists as well as a brief rundown of his games at the convention. It's a fun read.
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

Fist of Halaak seems to be in a good place right now, albeit bland and predictable.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Nocturne

I know where I live everyone plays the warmachine side of the game; and laughed at me when I brought my skorne the first time to play.
After the first time, my bronzeback smashed a menoth heavy jack into the ground on one turn, he wasn't laughing anymore. Now most guys I play with take the skorne very seriously. I love my army, it's powerful and can boast some serious output, still weak to range. I use eHexeris for those tricky lists.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/14 10:42:18


 
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut



New Zealand

People which don't respect the power of a Bronzeback deserve everything they get. An Enraged Bronzeback can solo kill many colossals and I have seen them kill heavy jacks with just their initials + Grab and Smash.
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

Personally I really like Skorne. They seem like what Khador is made out to be in the fluff - lots of elite units and hard-hitting. I know personally I am strongly considering a Skorne army as my next force because they play similar to but still unique from my Khador. Also because I really want to do the Fist of Halaak.

The problem with "competitive" in WMH is that it often means competitive in Iron Gauntlet/WTC i.e. the high end tournaments. So a faction is "weak" because it doesn't have tricks of its own along the lines of Legion/Cryx, Butcher3 or now Bradigus' Wold War lists. That doesn't mean the faction is bad for the vast majority of us who will likely never be playing at an IG event where we need to care about those things.

My store's recent league was won by a Khador player who used the 2 player battlebox for most of his army (that would be Sorscha, Destroyer, Juggy and 5x Shocktroopers), and he did that in part because everyone was saying it was bad.

"Not competitive" in no way, shape or form means bad, it means that you might not have counters for some of the high end tournament lists that you see at big events. if you aren't planning on competing in those events to qualify for IG or WTC, then nothing is really bad.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/15 16:35:31


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Skorne have an excellent selection of beasts and solid units for many different roles; ones that other factions would certainly like to have if given the chance.

While it is arguable (I tend to fall into the camp that thinks the following statement is true, but can easily see the other side of the discussion) that they do not have any casters in the league of the Gaspy2s, Haley2s, and such, they can still be a useful force due to possessing some of the attributes that are useful in what the game has shifted to in the last few years - high armor and good pow. In the days of high def infantry running the show, it was sometimes a bit of an uphill struggle versus certain factions, but these days with colossals and a lot of armor-skew attrition, they can hold their own nicely.

Though I tend not to play much in events any more, I do keep an eye out for results and watch as many recorded top-table games as I can manage. I see Skorne in these events and games, and for some time I have noticed that they have been doing pretty well. I would not let the fact you are not seeing them locally lead you to the conclusion they are reviled or weak, as elsewhere they are doing well and have multiple players. I think my local club has three Skorne players currently and at one time had perhaps as many as five, which is pretty decent for a small club. They are certainly less common to see than some other factions, but a lot of that is flavour of the week (hello Bradigus tier) stuff where some people rush out to buy an assumed advantage instead of practising with their own faction. With the decent stuff coming out for Skorne in the near future, like the bugs, I anticipate that they will continue to grow in popularity.

Give them a chance and I think you will find them a decent faction.
   
Made in us
Strangely Beautiful Daemonette of Slaanesh



where the wind comes sweeping down the plains

Molik Karn and Archidon are beast assassins incarnate...

There are loads of surprises with these two increasing threat ranges really far up the board...
The real limiting factor is the skorne caster control areas

 
   
Made in us
Mortitheurge Experiment



Philadelphia

Mortitheuge Willbreakers, extend that range!
   
 
Forum Index » Privateer Press Miniature Games (Warmachine & Hordes)
Go to: