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Lords - 1194 pts:

Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon
General; Lore of Vampires; Heavy armour; Magic Level 1
Nightshroud
Talisman of Preservation
Dread Knight
Red Fury
Aura of Dark Majesty


Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon

Shield; Magic Level 1
Armour of Destiny
Aura of Dark Majesty
Dread Knight

core - 600 pts:

10 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves

38 VM Skeleton Warriors
Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician; Skeleton Champion

38 VM Skeleton Warriors
Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician; Skeleton Champion

heroes - 155 pts:
1 Necromancer
Master of the Dead; Magic Level 2; Lore of Vampires
Staff of Sorcery

Rare - 450 pts:

1 Terrorgheist

1 Terrorgheist

Total Army Cost: 2399.0


What do you guys think?

Lot of Monster with T6 & 2 Geists

Necr is only for dispel..

Please strip the individual point values from your post. Dakka doesn't need any GW litigation. Just use summary totals for groups.

To clarify: it's against form rules to list the point values of each individual item or upgrade.
Just do it like this:

1 Vampire Lord (heavy armour, Nightshroud, Talisman of Preservation, Dread Knight, Red Fury, Aura of Dark Majesty, Zombie Dragon (641pts)

- not sure if Red Fury is worth it without some way to get re-rolls.
- why Vampire Lords on Zombie Dragons? Why not Ghoul Kings on Terrorgheists?
- one unit of 10 Wolves are basically worse in every way than two units of 5. The Doom Wolf is also a waste of points.
- you need more chaff. Spirit Hosts and Fell Bats are fantastic.

Warpsolution wrote:
To clarify: it's against form rules to list the point values of each individual item or upgrade.
Just do it like this:

1 Vampire Lord (heavy armour, Nightshroud, Talisman of Preservation, Dread Knight, Red Fury, Aura of Dark Majesty, Zombie Dragon (641pts)

- not sure if Red Fury is worth it without some way to get re-rolls.
- why Vampire Lords on Zombie Dragons? Why not Ghoul Kings on Terrorgheists?
- one unit of 10 Wolves are basically worse in every way than two units of 5. The Doom Wolf is also a waste of points.
- you need more chaff. Spirit Hosts and Fell Bats are fantastic.

- Red Fury is worth it, but when Str > 6 and with macabra
- I Can`t take another Geist in roster , because restrictions
- there will be lot of HE, dwarfs, WE on local tournament with restrictions.
- 1 unit of 10 wolves can stop unit of 5 waywatchers or another skirmishers... I`ll take 10 + 5 + 5

Restrictions

Vampire Counts
May select up to 5 choices from the pool below:

Terrorgheist –1 choice

2nd Terrorgheist–3 choices

Each character with Red Fury and/or Quickblood–1 choice

Each character using the Lore of Death-1 choice

Each ethereal character or unit–1 choice

Each unit of hexwraith after the 1st-1 choice

Each Scream after the first–1 choice

More than 10 crypt horrors in the army-1 choice

Each Direwolf and / or Fellbat unit after the fourth-1 choice

No characters, no Undead Legions and other EoT stuff

I find this list to just be weak, how do you compete in the magic phase and keep your army together with just a lvl 2? No book of arkhan, and small chance of vanshels to postion your army as your two dragons rocket forwards to avoid being shot or magic to death, thus leaving your army our of general leadership and basically forcing you to play tomb kings movement game

With no re rolls to hit, you whiff a combat and be prepared to just evaporate into dust from combat rez, and you literally don't have any units that can support the Dragon Vamps in combat and not just bleed another boatload to CR ( skellies are suboptimal at best)

This list could use things like vargheists that operate on their own and are fast enough to keep up, I mean 2 Terrogheists is always great but this list in it current incantation will kill chaff well and just completely implode against any type of list with decent sized combat blocks and deathstars/ point denial you just don't have block killing imo without relying on a two dragon charge with one in the flank, and if people just let you do that...well they deserve it

2Arthas367. yes, you're right.

I don`t know what to do with WE ( If I take hexwraiths & geist - they dies on first turn of WE...
when I take something like this

1 Vampire Lord ( General; Heavy armour; Shield; Magic Level 4; Ogre Blade;Talisman of Preservation; OTS;Dread Knight; Quickblood; Red Fury; Hellsteed)

1 Master Necromancer ( Magic Level 3; Lore of Death; Hellsteed)

1 Vampire ( Hellsteed; BSB; Magic Level 1; Lance; Shield; Armour of Destiny;Quickblood)

3 Vargheists

3 Vargheists

10 Hexwraiths

5 Dire Wolves

5 Dire Wolves

10 Dire Wolves

38 VM Skeleton Warriors
Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician; Skeleton Champion

38 VM Skeleton Warriors
Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician; Skeleton Champion

1 Terrorgheist

it`s always autofail, because of lot magic missles & three heroes on great stag with Savage beasts of Horrors



Automatically Appended Next Post:
list ofWE is something like that:

lords - 325
heroes - 572
core - 612
spec - 564
rare - 325

12 Glade Guard (Asrai Longbow; Standard; Musician; Moonfire Shot)

12 Glade Guard (Asrai Longbow; Standard; Musician; Hagbane Tips)

12 Glade Guard(Asrai Longbow; Standard; Musician; Trueflight Arrow)

10 Wild Riders ( Frenzy; Asrai Spear; Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician)

1 Treeman

1 Great Eagle

1 Great Eagle

9 Sisters of the Thorn (Blackbriar Javelin; Standard; Musician)

1 Spellweaver ( General; Magic Level 4; Lore of Beasts
Talisman of Preservation; Unicorn)

1 Glade Captain ( Asrai Spear; Asrai Longbow; Shield; Battle Standard; Armour of Fortune; Great Stag)

1 Glade Captain (Asrai Spear; Asrai Longbow; Light Armour; Shield; Talisman of Endurance ;Great Stag)

1 Glade Captain (Asrai Spear; Asrai Longbow; Shield
Armour of Destiny; Great Stag)

Easy, dont play the wood elf game, speed is his ally he will dance and shoot you all day long, they kill soft targets ( ethereal included) with ease due to magical arrows and mainly glass cannon nature

So play the undead game and watch him slowly run out of room to maneuver as huge blocks of zombies, and undead bear down on him that he can't hope to plink away with those units, you should be thinking along the lines of 50 man blocks of zombies, 9+ man units of Crypt horrors, hell even large blocks of skellies ( even though I dislike their output) he will be hard pressed to do anything with people just making Invocations happen and replenishing all his work, just put a few heavy hitters in to counter his big units and wild riders and it should be smooth sailing honestly, you don't have to wipe him out, but if you build right he has no chance of doing anything of note to your army, he doesn't even have snipers and such to remove your necroes

How many Magical Attacks do Wood Elves really have at range? Hail of Doom, Bow of Loren...

Unless Enchanted Arrows specifically say they grant Magical Attacks...they're not Weapons. They're Enchanted Items.

I'm almost certain the wood elf, arrow upgrades count as magical attacks

They do.

they do and wild riders have magical attacks (steeds of Kurnous)

2Arthas367 2 eagles = 5 waywatchers

That's why spirit hosts would just get nuked and bleed VP when it's unecessary, and I'm sure some will say we'll least that spares your other units from their shooting, but when your other units are Crypt horrors, zombies, etc who gives a damn they arent putting that much ranged hurt to even dent these units , with even moderate magical support.

Against these types of lists vc can pretty much just go full denial and laugh it off, especially with beasts magic as his lvl 4 lore, just pin a few of his units, get your pts and cruise

I'm think what I should try something like this:

50 Zombies
Standard; Musician

50 Zombies
Standard; Musician

34 VM Skeleton Warriors
Spear; Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician; Champion

15 VM Skeleton Warriors
Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician; Champion

5 Dire Wolves

5 Dire Wolves

1 Necromancer

1 Necromancer

1 Necromancer

1 Necromancer Master of the Dead;


1 Vampire Lord (General;HA; Shield; Magic Level 4; Ogre Blade; Talisman of Preservation; Dread Knight ; Master of the Black Arts; Enchanted Shield; Hellsteed)

8 Crypt Horrors + 1 Crypt Haunter

5 Vargheists + Vargoyle

1 Terrorgheist

Definitely on a better track, why the 15 man skeleton unit ?? Why not a 50 man and save some pts on extra command?, and be less immune to giving up those VP's your not going to want to throw away vs. Wood elves

Your Vamp. lord is all over the place , make him combat worthy or risk him getting his ass handed to him by tons of asrai heroes in that wild rider unit, master of the black arts is cool but not necessary in the least, if Dreadknight is a waste of bloodline points and makes you very vulnerable to death snipes, and if it makes you challenge irrc is a death sentence with your current setup. ( quick blood is amazing, stripping elf re rolls, with you being able to still vanshels can be clutch, red fury, other tricksters shard, ward save, and some str enhance weapon and he's gtg)

Get 2 or 3 lvl 2 necros, or better yet a lvl 4 and lvl 2, Also get a dispel scroll

Those small wolves immediately become target priority since your other units are mainly solid, same idea with small skeleton unit, you want to deny him the easy kills and points

the 15 man skeleton with necr master of the dead it is not so bad imho?

but you`re right. it`s easy VP.

1 Vampire Lord ( General; Heavy armour; Shield; lvl 4;
Ogre Blade; Talisman of Preservation; the OTS;
Quickblood;Red Fury; Hellsteed)

1 Master Necromancer (Master of the Dead; lvl 4;Talisman of Endurance; Staff of Sorcery)

1 Necromancer (lvl2; Dispel Scroll)

50 Zombies ( Standard; Musician)

50 Zombies ( Standard; Musician)

50 VM Skeleton Warriors (full command)
9 Crypt Horrors

6 Vargheists

1 Terrorgheist


Magic Restrictions is

1. A maximum of 2 dice may be added to the power pool

2. A 5 Dice Casting Cap will be in effect for all spells

3. Lore of Death spells will have a 4 dice casting cap in effect

4. The Lore of Shadow spell Mindrazor will have a 4 dice casting cap in effect

5. The Lore of Hashut will have a 4 dice casting cap in effect

Should I try the Magic of Death for necros 4 lvl?

 fujinden wrote:
the 15 man skeleton with necr master of the dead it is not so bad imho?

but you`re right. it`s easy VP.

1 Vampire Lord ( General; Heavy armour; Shield; lvl 4;
Ogre Blade; Talisman of Preservation; the OTS;
Quickblood;Red Fury; Hellsteed)

1 Master Necromancer (Master of the Dead; lvl 4;Talisman of Endurance; Staff of Sorcery)

1 Necromancer (lvl2; Dispel Scroll)

50 Zombies ( Standard; Musician)

50 Zombies ( Standard; Musician)

50 VM Skeleton Warriors (full command)
9 Crypt Horrors

6 Vargheists

1 Terrorgheist


Magic Restrictions is

1. A maximum of 2 dice may be added to the power pool

2. A 5 Dice Casting Cap will be in effect for all spells

3. Lore of Death spells will have a 4 dice casting cap in effect

4. The Lore of Shadow spell Mindrazor will have a 4 dice casting cap in effect

5. The Lore of Hashut will have a 4 dice casting cap in effect

Should I try the Magic of Death for necros 4 lvl?

1) You have no chaff. Vampires have some of the best chaff in the game, so you're really missing out by not utilizing it.

2) If you're going to run a VL on a hellsteed by himself he needs a charmed shield, period. I've tried running him without and you lose him too often to a lucky stonethrower hit.

3) Put a champion on those vargheists too, so that they can take challenges from your vampire lord

4) Master of the Dead isn't worth it. The rest of his gear isn't great either. I'd much rather give him the Black Periapt to boost your magic phase.

5) If you're taking a level 4 MN don't put 4 levels on your VL. Not worth it unless your MN is on death, and even then. You won't have the dice to power 10 levels of magic.

6) You need a bunker for your wizards. Having them in the front rank of those big zombie/skeleton bricks is asking for it. Get a unit of 20 zombies and stick them in there (or better yet, take a unit of skeletons so that you can have a champion to tank flying mage-hunting solo characters.

7) If you can fit the points I'd rather have 2x4 vargheists than one unit of 6. I really dislike units of 6...they lack the mobility and flexibility that multiple small units have. You'll also struggle to get them to earn their points back, as 4 vargheists can just eat someone's back lines and be happy with it.

I say never make the vampire lord a level 4. He's a tonne of points. Risking him going down the hole is far too much.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
I say never make the vampire lord a level 4. He's a tonne of points. Risking him going down the hole is far too much.

I used to think that way, but the likelihood of cascading AND jumping down a hole when you're on,y throwing 2-3 dice at LoV spells is minuscule. What will make a much bigger deal is the 100 points you're spending on that safety blanket. That's two spirit hosts. That's half a four-pack of vargheists. Almost half a terrorgheist. 70 points shy of a varghulf. Not worth it.

The exception is if you need the arcane slot. Black periapt is awesome, but isn't worth gimping a vampire lord for.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
I say never make the vampire lord a level 4. He's a tonne of points. Risking him going down the hole is far too much.

I used to think that way, but the likelihood of cascading AND jumping down a hole when you're on,y throwing 2-3 dice at LoV spells is minuscule. What will make a much bigger deal is the 100 points you're spending on that safety blanket. That's two spirit hosts. That's half a four-pack of vargheists. Almost half a terrorgheist. 70 points shy of a varghulf. Not worth it.

The exception is if you need the arcane slot. Black periapt is awesome, but isn't worth gimping a vampire lord for.

what are you think about MN lvl 4 LoD with black periapt, obsidian lodestone on abussal terror or on hellsteed in four-pack of vargheists?

I should try the vamp lord lvl 1 on dragon (red fury, quickblood, dreadknight, sword of power, obsidian amulet, armor of destiny) .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

1 Master Necromancer (Magic Level 4; Lore of Death; Obsidian Lodestone or talisman of preservation ) on Abyssal Terror

1 Vampire Lord (General; LoV; Shield; Lvl 4; Quickblood; Red Fury; Dread Knight; Sword of Might; Armour of Destiny; Obsidian Amulet) on Zombie Dragon

10 Dire Wolves

10 Dire Wolves

10 Dire Wolves

37 Crypt Ghouls

1 Terrorgheist

8 Hexwraiths

1 Black Coach

lord with LoV 4 lvl is for dance macabra on hexwraiths + to heal something,

Black coach is to stop something & on 5+ turn it will be ethereal

30 of wolves are to eat artillery on 2nd-3rd turn

MN lvl4 is in roster for spirit of leech.. distract from terrorgeist and lord

This roster (not my) had took 2nd place on tourney

2400 Pts something like this

1 Strigoi Ghoul King ( General; Magic Level 1; Sword of Bloodshed; Potion of Strength; aura of dark majesty) on Terrorgheist

1 Master Necromancer ( Magic Level 4; Dispel Scroll)

1 Wight King ( Battle Standard Bearer; Heavy armour)

1 Terrorgheist

1 Varghulf

1 Varghulf

33 Zombies

30 Zombies

5 Dire Wolves

5 Dire Wolves

32 Crypt Ghouls + Ghast

6 Crypt Horrors + hauntler

That list is illegal?
terrorgheist =1
2nd terrorgheist =3
2nd scream =1
character with redfury/quickblood =1

=6 points

you`re right)

 fujinden wrote:
This roster (not my) had took 2nd place on tourney

2400 Pts something like this

1 Strigoi Ghoul King ( General; Magic Level 1; Sword of Bloodshed; Potion of Strength; aura of dark majesty) on Terrorgheist

1 Master Necromancer ( Magic Level 4; Dispel Scroll)

1 Wight King ( Battle Standard Bearer; Heavy armour)

1 Terrorgheist

1 Varghulf

1 Varghulf

33 Zombies

30 Zombies

5 Dire Wolves

5 Dire Wolves

32 Crypt Ghouls + Ghast

6 Crypt Horrors + hauntler

How the hell did people let this take 2nd in a tournament? Was it swedish? That list must comp at something like a 16...

Edit: missed the second terrorgheist in there...actually comps an 11.6. The second TG hits the list for -50.

For an 11.6 that's a really soft list.

Edit2: Not illegal, because the SGK doesn't have RF.

Do you have any mortis engines? What is your collection like? I think that an infantry list back backed by a mortis engine or two with a lvl 1 vamp lord/ strigoi, lvl 4 MN (+6 to cast vhd and winds of death anyone? or even the 12" invocation bubble) and a couple lvl 1 necros and a crypthorror meat shield for the MEs could be super powerful. Get a big block of skeletons with spears and they are a very pointy unit with re-rolls to hit and/or wound.

Rx8Speed wrote:
Do you have any mortis engines? What is your collection like? I think that an infantry list back backed by a mortis engine or two with a lvl 1 vamp lord/ strigoi, lvl 4 MN (+6 to cast vhd and winds of death anyone? or even the 12" invocation bubble) and a couple lvl 1 necros and a crypthorror meat shield for the MEs could be super powerful. Get a big block of skeletons with spears and they are a very pointy unit with re-rolls to hit and/or wound.

Spears on skeletons are garbage. WS2 S3 attacks, even with rerolls, aren't worth writing home about. The only way that unit wins combats is static combat res, and if you're already giving up parry saves you might as well go with zombies for almost half the price.

Also don't forget that mortis engines with the BT double the danger of miscasts. I'll risk level 4 on my VL, but with the tome it starts getting dicey.

Also never take a SGK. They're just worse vampire lords for roughly the same price after you factor in a MN level 4, even under comp.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:

Rx8Speed wrote:
Do you have any mortis engines? What is your collection like? I think that an infantry list back backed by a mortis engine or two with a lvl 1 vamp lord/ strigoi, lvl 4 MN (+6 to cast vhd and winds of death anyone? or even the 12" invocation bubble) and a couple lvl 1 necros and a crypthorror meat shield for the MEs could be super powerful. Get a big block of skeletons with spears and they are a very pointy unit with re-rolls to hit and/or wound.

Spears on skeletons are garbage. WS2 S3 attacks, even with rerolls, aren't worth writing home about. The only way that unit wins combats is static combat res, and if you're already giving up parry saves you might as well go with zombies for almost half the price.

Also don't forget that mortis engines with the BT double the danger of miscasts. I'll risk level 4 on my VL, but with the tome it starts getting dicey.

Also never take a SGK. They're just worse vampire lords for roughly the same price after you factor in a MN level 4, even under comp.

You don't really need parry saves if you have regen and the extra attacks from the spears are free so why not? The +2 to cast is pretty sweet if you just have a bunch of level 1s trying to raise units up. And the risk on the miscast table is why I said to keep the vampire as a level 1. For the MN you can keep him about 12" away from the ME, that way you can decide if it's worth the risk situationally depending on what spells you are trying to cast. Sometimes a bubble VHD is worth potentially sacrificing your necromancer for. Also 4+ regen on crypt horrors and the SGK is pretty cool. I wouldn't be so quick to disregard mortis engines.

Rx8Speed wrote:

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:

Rx8Speed wrote:
Do you have any mortis engines? What is your collection like? I think that an infantry list back backed by a mortis engine or two with a lvl 1 vamp lord/ strigoi, lvl 4 MN (+6 to cast vhd and winds of death anyone? or even the 12" invocation bubble) and a couple lvl 1 necros and a crypthorror meat shield for the MEs could be super powerful. Get a big block of skeletons with spears and they are a very pointy unit with re-rolls to hit and/or wound.

Spears on skeletons are garbage. WS2 S3 attacks, even with rerolls, aren't worth writing home about. The only way that unit wins combats is static combat res, and if you're already giving up parry saves you might as well go with zombies for almost half the price.

Also don't forget that mortis engines with the BT double the danger of miscasts. I'll risk level 4 on my VL, but with the tome it starts getting dicey.

Also never take a SGK. They're just worse vampire lords for roughly the same price after you factor in a MN level 4, even under comp.

You don't really need parry saves if you have regen and the extra attacks from the spears are free so why not? The +2 to cast is pretty sweet if you just have a bunch of level 1s trying to raise units up. And the risk on the miscast table is why I said to keep the vampire as a level 1. For the MN you can keep him about 12" away from the ME, that way you can decide if it's worth the risk situationally depending on what spells you are trying to cast. Sometimes a bubble VHD is worth potentially sacrificing your necromancer for. Also 4+ regen on crypt horrors and the SGK is pretty cool. I wouldn't be so quick to disregard mortis engines.

Because, again, if you're already getting regen then you might as well just go with zombies. A handful of extra WS2 S3 attacks aren't worth the additional expense.

As for the ME, I'm just not convinced of their effectiveness. Perhaps it's because I'm primarily concerned with tournament play, where you can't always count on making it to turn 5-6 when a ME really starts to shine. I can see using it in a defensive points-denial army. However the more aggressive builds seem to be a more competitive option to me. I've run the ME before and found it to be lacklustre. Perhaps I would change my mind if I were running two.

As for the 4+ regen on a SGK...yeah it makes him more durable. However it won't save him from KB or flaming attacks, he can still be made ASL by things like frost phoenixes, his lack of armour or access to mundane weapons is frustrating, and now with 50% lords and heroes there really doesn't seem to be a place for him given that for just a few points more you can get a kitted VL who is just objectively better. Before you could justify it on the basis that you didn't have to compromise his effectiveness to fit a Level 4 MN into a 2400/2500 point list. Now you can fit TWO vampire lords into that list with room to spare for the MN.

The ws2 of skeletons is way better than the ws1 of zombies. Hitting on a 4+ against most things vs hitting on 5ss is a pretty big difference. And MEs have a lot of tricks that you can pull on turn 1. For example if you go first and you deploy your terrorgheist, vargheist, black knight bus or whatever within the regen bubble, you can then movemove/vhd those units to wherever you want and you'll have the regen until your next turn. That is pretty powerful with fast hard hitting units.

And the SGK has more reliable damage output. Since he'll get re rolls to hit even against elves who has a higher I value. There isn't much in the vc book that can't be used competitively

I had played with this roster on that tourney (Perm, Russia)

1 Master Necromancer (Magic Level 4; Lore of Death; Fencer`s Blades + Talisman of Endurance) on Abyssal Terror

1 Vampire Lord (General; LoV; Shield; Lvl 4; Quickblood; Red Fury; Nightshroud; Talisman of Preservation; ) on Zombie Dragon

10 Dire Wolves

10 Dire Wolves

10 Dire Wolves

37 Crypt Ghouls

1 Terrorgheist

8 Hexwraiths

1 Black Coach

1 win (dwarfs), 2 draw (lizards & VC), 2 lose (HE & WE)

Frostfenix has died after charge of VL on Zombiedragon

I don`t like Mortis, he`s very afraid of cannons or bows.

PS I`m from Russia.

 fujinden wrote:
I had played with this roster on that tourney (Perm, Russia)

1 Master Necromancer (Magic Level 4; Lore of Death; Fencer`s Blades + Talisman of Endurance) on Abyssal Terror

1 Vampire Lord (General; LoV; Shield; Lvl 4; Quickblood; Red Fury; Nightshroud; Talisman of Preservation; ) on Zombie Dragon

10 Dire Wolves

10 Dire Wolves

10 Dire Wolves

37 Crypt Ghouls

1 Terrorgheist

8 Hexwraiths

1 Black Coach

1 win (dwarfs), 2 draw (lizards & VC), 2 lose (HE & WE)

Frostfenix has died after charge of VL on Zombiedragon

I don`t like Mortis, he`s very afraid of cannons or bows.

PS I`m from Russia.

A level 4 on an abyssal terror seems...insane. His only save would be a 5++ and his mount has no save of any kind. Didn't people just shoot at him? Or were you relying on target saturation?

Also why 10 direwolves? Doesn't seem like it would add anything over 5 save to make that unit a lot less expendable.