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I'm sorry but when I see Dreamforce dreadknights, colonial historical miniatures, and tier things if the like I just can't stand playing against them. I feel they don't fit the 40k aesthetic and are a cheap way into cheating what the hobby is. People spend not only time building and painting their mans, but time earning the money to buy the actual product. Those third part miniatures is kind of insulting to the people who saved for the real thing. What do you guys think?

I think what you buy is up to you and you can do whatever you please, but you might have more fun if you stepped off that high horse and let other people have their fun too.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using 3rd party materials. I love the variety it brings to the table.

In the end, it's your choice, but it's definitely not the one I would make.

It's silly to argue that someone else's miniatures somehow devalue yours on the tabletop.

Why is it insulting to use a different model or pay less money? What do you care how much someone spent on their army?

What an atrocious attitude to have.

As a 3rd party model user myself, I think they add a lot to the game. I could buy metal Mordians from GW, or spend the same amount and get better detailed, multi-part models that look better with all the weapon options I'd ever need.

One good look at Victoria Miniatures and I completely disagree:

http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/

 Accolade wrote:
One good look at Victoria Miniatures and I completely disagree:

http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/

Which is what I use.

Looks better, same cost as what I'd pay in metal, and has more options for a WYSIWYG force without having to hack away at metal in weird places.

Heck, I'd say Victoria Miniatures look superior to the GW IG line!

The FW IG line is another story, but still, the only reason I can understand why people would eschew third parties would be for models that don't have the right aesthetic. Once that's achieved (with miniatures like Victoria), I don't see any good reason whatsoever.

Just doesn't do it for me. It's like proxying action figures in a game. I feel that if you should play something you should support the IP.

Accolade wrote:Heck, I'd say Victoria Miniatures look superior to the GW IG line!

The FW IG line is another story, but still, the only reason I can understand why people would eschew third parties would be for models that don't have the right aesthetic. Once that's achieved (with miniatures like Victoria), I don't see any good reason whatsoever.

There's no doubt that anything Vic has produced that has a similarity to an IG line is superior in nearly every way.

FW and Vic is much closer, agreed.

Verviedi wrote:1 Daly troll thread per day limit please.

I'd normally agree with you, but this one isn't quite as trolly as the previous one. There's troll elements, but its not quite living under a bridge territory yet. I'm sure the mods will let us know either way.

Heck, I won't play against anyone until they show me their receipts. They have to have paid full retail at a GW or from the webstore.

Anything else just ruins the game. I don't want to see some mangled crap you got in a lot from ebay.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Just doesn't do it for me. It's like proxying action figures in a game. I feel that if you should play something you should support the IP.

Paying for the rules and codices, plus whatever characters you want is plenty to support the IP.


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 Arschbombe wrote:
Heck, I won't play against anyone until they show me their receipts. They have to have paid full retail at a GW or from the webstore.

Anything else just ruins the game. I don't want to see some mangled crap you got in a lot from ebay.

Yup, no discounts.

Oh, and you have to use GW glue and paints only. And their measuring tape.

Anything else and I'll refuse to play.

I disagree entirely with the OP, I'd be over the moon to see more 3rd Party minis on the board. Anything different from the GW norm, anything unusual or creative, anything that changes things up, from FW units to repurposed Historicals, makes the game far more varied and enjoyable.

I'm glad there is a wealth of third party options and add-ons. I would rather there is a strive to creativity rather than one bland, homogeneous mess.

Yeah, I'm pretty positive that the diversity of armies made my players has created a lot of the draw of 40k.

And again, Victoria miniatures are, IMO, better-looking than the potato men of the Cadian 431st. Comparing them to action figures is a little silly.

 Accolade wrote:
One good look at Victoria Miniatures and I completely disagree:

http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/

Hot damn! Thank you!

I was just about to start a Lost and the Damned army and I didn't want to spend $2 for each pair of legs on ebay I needed for the FW kits. With those Penal Legion legs I can make them look even better than just generic Cadian legs.

 Accolade wrote:
Yeah, I'm pretty positive that the diversity of armies made my players has created a lot of the draw of 40k.

And again, Victoria miniatures are, IMO, better-looking than the potato men of the Cadian 431st. Comparing them to action figures is a little silly.

Its a slippery slope argument. Sure, throwing down a batman figure and calling it a dreadknight is where I'd question my opponent. Taking a Gundam and painting/converting it with 40k bits and calling it a Riptide is cool. Scratch-building vehicles using only plasticard and greenstuff is awesome.

Rule of cool and all that.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
Yeah, I'm pretty positive that the diversity of armies made my players has created a lot of the draw of 40k.

And again, Victoria miniatures are, IMO, better-looking than the potato men of the Cadian 431st. Comparing them to action figures is a little silly.

Its a slippery slope argument. Sure, throwing down a batman figure and calling it a dreadknight is where I'd question my opponent. Taking a Gundam and painting/converting it with 40k bits and calling it a Riptide is cool. Scratch-building vehicles using only plasticard and greenstuff is awesome.

Rule of cool and all that.

Oh most certainly! It's all about the difference between proxying and count-as, and putting some effort into making sure your models fit with the overall aesthetic of the army/game. And you're right, it's definitely a continuum where things like scratch-building are by far the best.

No problem whatsoever third party conversions and models help you create unique force not to mention any savings a person might get from doing so. I think it adds to the game not takes away from it.

Agree on the rule of cool argument, IMO if you put effort into something I have no issue (I have no issue with proxying in some games.)

Elitest thread is elitest

There are countless forge worlds in the Imperium and all warmachines have to look the same (GW look)? I don't think so.
There are countless imperial worlds with recruits for the Astra Militarum in the Imperium and none can have historical uniforms? I don't think so.

Play in a GW store if you want limited creativity and GW miniatures only.

We have a guy at our local shop who only uses GW models in his armies. I have had him tell me that he would not play against anyone who uses non-GW models in an army because it demeans the game.
Of course, this is also the same guy who will come in and slap down $500 every other week saying he doesnt like money as he buys the ultra power units to build his current army (which he never paints or puts any heart in) which he will soon get bored with and resell for a fraction of what he paid.
my impression of his attitude is elitist snob who buys wins. Note that I am not saying that is my view on the attitude of anyone here but rather this guy from the local shop.

I found that many other companies have cool looking models that will often grab the feel of what I am trying to show in a models or unit better than GW and I have no problem using it. Sometimes a different company will have cheaper models that fit close enough to what I want to show and are cheaper and I have no problem using them either.
I like to convert models just to look different and give them more character that more closely matches the feel of my army. Never for an advantage but always for appearances.

A cookie cutter army in terms of visuals and models I find boring (not that they cant be made to look good, just that I couldnt use it as I would feel a lack of character).
Besides, not everyone can afford all official GW models and I feel denying them the ability to play the game for that reason to be a bit much.

Of course, i'd want it to be clos enough and show effort rather than just slapping down red solo cups and pieces of paper whith what they are supposed to be ritten on them.

I would disagree with the blanket statement of the OP, though some of the specific examples cited are understandable. I use quite a number of 3rd-part bits in my conversions and if anything they enhance the feel and authenticity of my army, not detract from it. I chose those bits by-and-large because their better than those GW offers or to give my army an interesting character or variation. I also have some scratch-built elements which are some of my most treasured models. They were all custom built to fit the army and ethos... are they less appropriate on the table-top because I didn't hand GW the money for them, but paid a talented fellow-gamer?

No problem whatsoever, although I do appreciate some in-game suspension of disbelief (rule of cool, as I've seen others say). So Greek Hoplites as Necron Warriors, stuff like that, I wouldn't like.

But if it looks like what its meant to be, I'm all for it, and I appreciate craft and conversions, maybe even moreso than the "real deal". It takes more effort to convert a model than to glue together what GW put in a box....it doesn't take away from the hobby at all, but rather adds to it.

 Hanskrampf wrote:
There are countless forge worlds in the Imperium and all warmachines have to look the same (GW look)? I don't think so.
There are countless imperial worlds with recruits for the Astra Militarum in the Imperium and none can have historical uniforms? I don't think so.

Play in a GW store if you want limited creativity and GW miniatures only.

I really wish there was a GW store near me.

I like anything different I think. Awesome conversions, awesome third party models, awesome themed armies, I'd love to see them across the table from me, no matter where the parts come from!

If it's just an action figure plonked down as a giant or a riptide or something, that's different. That seems very lazy. But if effort has clearly gone into it (even if the effort is in planning the theme and sourcing the parts) then go right ahead!

Also the 'they got it cheaper wah' argument is ridiculous. Half the time it probably doesn't even end up cheaper, and where do you draw the line? People who bought it from a discounter? Ebay? Birthday presents? If someone wants to save some money in an expensive hobby, who are you to stop them?

And one last thing... Those Victoria Miniatures are awesome! I know where I'm going if I ever do AM...

@DMB. Totally disagree. If the models are the right scale and on proper bases and reasonably WYSIWYG... More power to them.

Why is this guy still allowed to create threads? The amount of closed threads started by this is guy is almost praiseworthy in some bizarre fashion.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I'm sorry but when I see Dreamforce dreadknights, colonial historical miniatures, and tier things if the like I just can't stand playing against them. I feel they don't fit the 40k aesthetic and are a cheap way into cheating what the hobby is.

I see you follow Kirby's viewpoint that "the hobby" isn't playing 40K, it's buying GW minis.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
People spend not only time building and painting their mans, but time earning the money to buy the actual product.

the people using third party minis paid actual money for the product they are using, and they probably spend time building and painting them, too. It's not like all the 3rd party minis are supplied fully painted and assembled. Unless some joker is using Heroclicks or something.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Those third part miniatures is kind of insulting to the people who saved for the real thing. What do you guys think?

I think someone who feels insulted because other people are smarter about saving money is directing his anger at the wrong people. Maybe such a person should consider the fact that other models are so much cheaper than GW's to be indicitive of a problem on the part of GW, rather than some kind of failing on the part of the people looking to save money.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I'm sorry but when I see Dreamforce dreadknights, colonial historical miniatures, and tier things if the like I just can't stand playing against them. I feel they don't fit the 40k aesthetic and are a cheap way into cheating what the hobby is. People spend not only time building and painting their mans, but time earning the money to buy the actual product. Those third part miniatures is kind of insulting to the people who saved for the real thing. What do you guys think?

Is this a clumsy attempt at a Tom Kirby astroturf campaign?

What a silly (to use as polite a word as I can come up with) stance... Arguing you don't like the aethetic of non-GW models is certainly a valid stance, but somehow claiming that it is "insulting" because it doesn't take as much time to earn money to pay for Geniune GW models? Yeah... No. Never mind that some of the 3rd party models are as, or more, expensive than the GW models.

And a "cheap way into cheating what the hobby is"? If the "hobby" in this case is, "Buying GW figures", then I suppose that might be true enough. If the hobby is a social act using plastic, metal, and resin figures to facilitate the imagainative process? Yeah... No.

Valete,

JohnS

Looking at the listed regiments in the ig book theres no way to create some of them from existing GW sets you have to go 3rd party

I pretty much only play league and tournament games so I don't see any 3rd party stuff except bits. We all follow the 80% rule. I play pickup games at my local GW due to tables and terrain being far better than the FLGS so we have to use all GW models there too.