Switch Theme:

NEW to flames of war  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




Victoria, BC, Canada

Well long time 40k player and occasional fantasy player. Looking to give FOW a try as ive always been interested in WWII and history. My question is what is the game like to play? whats the best way to get into it? Average cost? Average points for a game? Any help anyone can provide would be excellent!! Total newb here hahaha!

40k Orks 12000 points and growing
Ultramarines 2500
Salamanders 3500
Necrons 4000
Skitarii/cult mech 2500
Vampire Counts 3000 Points


 
   
Made in gb
1st Lieutenant







Biggest difference to get your head around is that being a 'veteran' unit vs a 'conscript' unit is that you are now better at shooting, but better at not being shot!

The game itself is divided into 3 time periods, early (39-41) mid (42-43) late (44-45) also you have Vietnam and Arab/Israeli and Great War as other options each one has its own points value but as a ball park look between 1500 to 1750


My FOW Blog
http://breakthroughassault.blogspot.co.uk/

My Eldar project log (26/7/13)
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5518969#post5518969

Exiles forum
http://exilesbbleague.phpbb4ever.com/index.php 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut






UK

 Reaver83 wrote:
Biggest difference to get your head around is that being a 'veteran' unit vs a 'conscript' unit is that you are now better at shooting, but better at not being shot!

The game itself is divided into 3 time periods, early (39-41) mid (42-43) late (44-45) also you have Vietnam and Arab/Israeli and Great War as other options each one has its own points value but as a ball park look between 1500 to 1750



Shouldn't that be 'not' instead of 'now'?

Nobz, since most shooting is done against the enemy target's skill rating in Flames of War, a low-skill unit will have the exact same base chance to hit a high skill unit as another high skill unit, but as Reaver correctly pointed out, the higher a unit's skill rating, the better it is at not being shot, instead of doing the shooting. A veteran (highest skill rating) unit requires a 4+ base roll to be hit by most shooting (there are exceptions, but these don't matter right now), whether it's another Veteran unit firing, a Trained (mid skill rating) unit firing, or a Conscript (lowest skill rating) unit firing. Similarly, a Conscript unit will usually be hit on a roll of a 2+, regardless of whether the firing unit is itself Conscript, Trained, or Veteran.

The difference comes when other factors come in to play.

(Spoilered to avoid confusion; don't worry if you don't understand anything in here yet, just skip it if you don't)
Spoiler:
Generally speaking, a unit shooting an enemy target that is over 16" away must add a +1 penalty to hit. Furthermore, if the target is Concealed, this adds another +1 penalty. In addition, if the enemy target is Gone to Ground whilst also Concealed, a third +1 penalty is added, and a further fourth is added if the weapons you are firing have both a Rate of Fire of 1, and moved earlier in the turn. Don't worry about the rules that add these penalties for now, but instead focus on what this does to the troops being fired on. Returning to our Conscript scenario, if for whatever reason the unit firing on the Conscripts manages to suffer all 4 +1s to their rolls to hit, the previously easy to hit Conscripts are now only able to be hit on 6s! If you were to fire on a Trained unit whilst suffering all 4 penalties, you would need 7s, rendering them unable to be hit. You would be able to suffer at most three penalties to your hit roll and still stand a chance of hitting Trained troops. This is lowered to a maximum of 2 if you want to hit Veteran troops.

Looking back, the previous 4+ to hit a Veteran unit suddenly doesn't seem all that simple to achieve, and the truth is that it isn't, especially if you're firing on Veteran infantry. Unlike Tanks, who must rely on terrain for concealment, infantry have the ability to try and Dig In, allowing them to become concealed even in the middle of a bare piece of terrain as they dig themselves foxholes. Since teams that didn't move or shoot in the previous turn are Gone Ground, static, dug in infantry usually tend to be both Gone to Ground AND Concealed most of the time, regardless of where they are (there are places you cannot dig in, but ignore that for now), which means that anyone shooting them will suffer +2 to their rolls to hit right off the bat, meaning Veteran infantry need 6s to be hit, and if the shooting team is beyond 16"--which they usually are until later in the game, where distances have been closed--and/or moved and fired a weapon with a Rate of Fire of 1, then they cannot be hit at all!

Compare this to 40k, where you could be standing 4 or 400 metres away, shooting at a guy hiding behind a wall, and still require the same roll to hit, and you see the difference between the two.

The cost of being better at not being shot, however, is high. Veteran armies cost a LOT more than Conscript armies, but Conscripts will absolutely need the numbers being cheap to purchase gives them to both survive getting close enough to Veterans that they can hit them, and also to have enough weight of fire to make sure that, even with one or two penalties to hit, enough hits can be made to do damage. Trained armies tend to occupy the middle ground.


The other cost-factor, besides Skill rating, is Motivation. Most Conscript armies you find will be Confident (mid-level Motivation) or Fearless (highest Motivation), whilst most Veterans with be Confident and a fair number will be Reluctant (lowest Motivation). Trained armies will almost always be Confident, although a few Fearless and Reluctant options do exist. Motivation also plays a part in unit cost, since a more highly motivated platoon won't break as easily. In terms of cost, Fearless Veterans are generally the most expensive you can get, with the cheapest common rating being Confident Conscript (Reluctant Trained may be cheaper, but it's a very uncommon rating to find).

To start with, you'll probably want a Confident Trained, or Confident Veteran army. Confident Trained gives you points to get most of the toys you want and the numbers to survive a sizeable mistake, however Confident Veteran can be a bit more forgiving of light mistakes, considering how difficult they can be to kill. The best way to get into it would be the Open Fire! starter set, however it's currently sold out--likely awaiting updated models--, so unless you can find a kit at an online discounter, then your best bet is to ask around your local gaming store to see if anyone will be willing to arrange an intro game, and perhaps help you draft a list and plan some purchases. The cost of an army tends to vary depending on the company you go to for the models. There are a fair few companies who do 15mm WW2 models fit for FoW, in addition to Battlefront, and some do better or cheaper ranges of things than others.

As for periods, as Reaver explained, FoW has three when it comes to WW2: Early War (EW), Mid-War (MW), and Late War (LW). Generally speaking, Late War is easier and what most people recommend starting in. Battlefront has its own set of tournament points values, but you can't really go wrong with 1500-1750pts in Late War. Confident Veteran tank companies tend to be the cheapest to make, both points-wise and money-wise. The USA, Britain, and Germany all have Confident Veteran tank companies available, as do Canadians in Late War if you want to be a bit of a patriot, and their main-stay tanks are available from websites such as The Plastic Soldier Company at a lower price than Battlefront for a similar quality. Soviet tank companies also exist, but they are heavy on numbers, so end up being fairly costly money-wise compared to other nations. The only downside with Tank Companies is that you will nearly always be the attacker in games, and you're either going to be fairly numerous but fairly fragile, or sturdy but low in number. Each type of army, Infantry, Mechanised, and Tank, has its own strengths and weaknesses, though, so it's usually best to choose whichever type you want to play, and go from there.

Apologies for the long post, but it's nearly 9am, I haven't slept, and I tend to ramble. Hopefully Reaver and anyone else more knowledgeable than I will correct anything I got wrong--because chances are I have gotten a few things wildly wrong.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/13 08:47:41


Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.

Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.

My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness

"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




Victoria, BC, Canada

Alrighty sounds pretty interesting! Thanks for the post!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also im looking at picking up the Open Fire starter set with Germans and British/Americans. Looks like a good way to get into it. Having trouble finding a site that actually has a price on it in CAN $$$ haha

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/28 17:10:45


40k Orks 12000 points and growing
Ultramarines 2500
Salamanders 3500
Necrons 4000
Skitarii/cult mech 2500
Vampire Counts 3000 Points


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






UK

The Open Fire set is--likely temporarily--out of stock according to the FoW website, and has been for a few weeks at least. Unfortunately, you'll be hard-pressed to find it anywhere outside Ebay until it's officially back in stock, but the upside is that the updated set should come with the new Sherman and StuG sprues. The old OF Shermans were notoriously bad, and they might as well include the updated StuGs at the same time.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/28 17:55:51


Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.

Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.

My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness

"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




Victoria, BC, Canada

Oh ok that would be why I cant find it haha! Do you know what they go for new on FOW site?

40k Orks 12000 points and growing
Ultramarines 2500
Salamanders 3500
Necrons 4000
Skitarii/cult mech 2500
Vampire Counts 3000 Points


 
   
Made in gb
Lieutenant Colonel




The Open Fire set was £50 ,(GBP) AFAIK
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




Victoria, BC, Canada

So really that's a pretty decent price when its in stock haha! Any other good ways to get into it are just start buying stuff haha!

40k Orks 12000 points and growing
Ultramarines 2500
Salamanders 3500
Necrons 4000
Skitarii/cult mech 2500
Vampire Counts 3000 Points


 
   
Made in us
Major




In a van down by the river

Some stores have decent stock, but I'm not sure of any discounters who do and adding shipping to retail lowers how good of a deal it is, especially if no Canadian stores have it and you throw in possible Customs on top of that.

Also, if Battlefront is re-packing the contents I would really hold off for that if you have an interest in the British. The current StuGs in the box, while not awesome perhaps, are passable. The British Shermans were awful with way too much effort required to get them together. Had I not bought a box of plastic Pz4 at the same time I'd have been very unlikely to continue, but those panzers (and nearly every resin/metal and other plastic I've bought since) are much better. To the point it's hard to believe they're the same company, really. Dealing with the poorly-fitting Shermans to get them to look good might be a rite of passage in the FoW community, but if there's a chance to give it a miss I would.

If you were looking to get your feet wet, the rulebook that's included is usually available for fairly cheap either through retailers or places like eBay. With being cheap however, the binding leaves something to be desired so it's worth getting it spiral-bound at the local copy store. Still not likely to break the bank.

As for models, the new plastic Grenadier company (product code GBX81: http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=79&ProductID=5758 ) is a fairly low-risk investment if you're looking to do anything with the Germans. It can be built as a Mid-War or Late-War company, and are almost entirely the same sculpts as Open Fire. Then, if you decide you like the system enough to go for an Open Fire set, you just build the Germans in there as the option you didn't pick and you'll have both eras covered.

Also don't forget to consider alternative vendors. While I like the aesthetic of BF's infantry, there's also Plastic Soldier Company, and Wargames Factory for plastic infantry. Bases eat into the cost difference somewhat, but it's always worth looking at all the options. There are tons of metal options out there too. PSC does great vehicles at a very competitive price so definitely check them out. Mixing-and-matching manufacturers in the same unit sometimes doesn't work out so well, but at table-top distance the difference between the tanks aren't really noticeable if the platoon matches.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 Krinsath wrote:
If you were looking to get your feet wet, the rulebook that's included is usually available for fairly cheap either through retailers or places like eBay.

No need for eBay. The mini rulebook is sold separately for $10 US.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in ca
Hauptmann





Calgary AB, Canada

If I still have mine around I can sell it cheap. I don't need it as I got the full size one for christmas

Just my 2 cents

 
   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





Picking up the OF box is the best way to get into the game I've found.. being relatively new myself it has helped me learn the rules rather quickly.

The models are also high quality and are easy to put together! Much easier than 40k models in some circumstances.

The OF introduction book that comes with the box shows you how to play the game, what is what and sets you on the way to expanding the armies that are included in the box.

Accept any challenge, No matter the odds


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut






UK

 SuperBerzerker12 wrote:
Picking up the OF box is the best way to get into the game I've found.. being relatively new myself it has helped me learn the rules rather quickly.

The models are also high quality and are easy to put together! Much easier than 40k models in some circumstances.

The OF introduction book that comes with the box shows you how to play the game, what is what and sets you on the way to expanding the armies that are included in the box.


What OF! did you buy? The Shermans are horrible, and the PaK gun shields tear like paper if you're not 100% careful snipping them off the sprue.

Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.

Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.

My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness

"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation 
   
 
Forum Index » Historical Miniature Games: WW1 to Modern
Go to: