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My local store is going to start an escalation WHFB series in February so I decided to go Daemons because I can't stand the thought of painting even more Orks when I still have a lot of work to do with my 40k army. My original plan was to do Mono Tzeentch but after lurking it seems that they are crap, mostly because of Warpflame.

Lord:

480pts
GUO Level 4 Wizard

Heroes:

200pts
Epidemius

170pts
Herald Level 1 Wizard Greater gift

170pts
Herald Level 1 Wizard Greater gift

Core:

300pts
20 Plaguebearer's Full Command with Flame Banner

300pts
20 Plaguebearer's Full Command with Flame Banner

300pts
20 Plaguebearer's Full Command with Flame Banner

Special:

either 4 Beast of Nurgle (and take 10 points away from somewhere else)
or 2 units of 8 Furies of Nurgle (leaving me with 6 points left over)

Rare:

175pts
3 Plague Drones with Flame Banner

175pts
3 Plague Drones with Flame Banner

------------



So until somebody tells me that mono Tzeentch is good I will plan towards a list like this. I'd appreciate any feedback on what I can change or what I might have done wrong.

Can't duplicate magic items bud so you can only take one flame banner per army.

Thanks for letting me know. I might as well remove that from all the units so I have a spare 50 points for Beast and/or Furies.

nathan2004 wrote:Can't duplicate magic items bud so you can only take one flame banner per army.

And FWIW, it only really helps the drone flies themselves, as all the plague bearers have magical weapons (not just magical attaks, they actually have magical weapons, which per BRB can't be lit on fire). Speaking of, most armies run one unit of 4-5 flaming drones, though the multiple smaller units make some sense as well.

Otherwise I'd say your plague blocks seem a bit small (25+ is better) and your GUO could use some gifts, even just a lesser to get himself ASF sword or a plague flail (or whatever he actually rolls). Clubmate of mine runs his GUO with the Eternal Blade (exalted gift) and it tears everything's face off. Definitely pick up a couple solo beasts as well, they're possibly the best redirector / assassins in the game!

Also, if you end up taking furies, they're virtually always taken in min-sized units of 5, as they're best served being thrown in the way of scary enemy things, and 5 can deal with artillery fine (in fact I don't believe more than 5 can fight war machines in combat anyway?)

Iiswin wrote:So until somebody tells me that mono Tzeentch is good ...

I play pure Tizz, and I wouldn't say it's good, especially if you want to win often and/or get frustrated easily Warpflame isn't the problem (it's actually won me games before, though it is extremely annoying vs deathstar builds), it's really the Lore of Tzeentch itself and the way the magic phase works in 8E. Your army depends upon magic to function ... yet is hampered by the number of power dice available and the rather poor spell selection of the Lore. This is eternally frustrating. I'd say a runner up to magic problems is extreme lack of combat power. I'm finally switching to double soul grinders because I want more than S4 dammit!

If you're interested, I have a battle report log here on Dakka that covers my Daemons of Tizz through an escalation league and beyond

- Salvage

You should also look at the greater gift weapon for the GUO. It has its place.

And beware the spells that remove GUO from play. They can take it out too quickly.

 Boss Salvage wrote:
I play pure Tizz, and I wouldn't say it's good, especially if you want to win often and/or get frustrated easily Warpflame isn't the problem (it's actually won me games before, though it is extremely annoying vs deathstar builds), it's really the Lore of Tzeentch itself and the way the magic phase works in 8E. Your army depends upon magic to function ... yet is hampered by the number of power dice available and the rather poor spell selection of the Lore. This is eternally frustrating. I'd say a runner up to magic problems is extreme lack of combat power. I'm finally switching to double soul grinders because I want more than S4 dammit!

If you're interested, I have a battle report log here on Dakka that covers my Daemons of Tizz through an escalation league and beyond

- Salvage

That looks great! I primarily picked Daemons because I wanted to play Tz but the internet tells me that Nurgle is the only semi-viable way of rolling Chaos but your reports and information has given me new confidence. I will take that advice on two Soul Grinders for higher level games. I just have some quick pestering questions: Should I bother with the big Lords like Lord of Change or Fateweaver and keep it to Heralds? Should I avoid Burning Chariots?

I'm thinking about stealing your 1800 list:

Herald of Tzeentch - level 2 (METAL), greater gift
Herald of Tzeentch - level 2 (TIZZ), BSB
25 Horrors - full command (gleaming pennant)
25 Horrors - full command
6 Flamers - pyrocaster
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
Soul Grinder of Tzeentch - daemonbone claw

Thanks for the help!

Best setup for a GUO is an exalted and a lesser.

9 times out of 10, you default to the Eternal Blade and the ASF sword thanks to a dumb FAQ.

Actually, that is the best setup for any greater. Makes the chicken awesome.

Think about it. Especially Salvage.

thedarkavenger wrote:Best setup for a GUO is an exalted and a lesser.

9 times out of 10, you default to the Eternal Blade and the ASF sword thanks to a dumb FAQ.

Actually, that is the best setup for any greater. Makes the chicken awesome.

Think about it. Especially Salvage.

When I eventually get my LoC built/painted, I'll probably run him with the Eternal Beatstick. Screw casting stuff, I just want to smash things!

Iiswin wrote:Should I bother with the big Lords like Lord of Change or Fateweaver and keep it to Heralds? Should I avoid Burning Chariots?

I don't play with special characters, and Fateweaver is specifically banned in most tournaments I attend, so no comment there. On the big chicken, as noted above I don't have mine built, so have zero experience with him. While I'd like to rampage the table with him some day, what's holding me back is the thought of cannons insta-gibbing him and giving up 500+ VP instantly If/when you get around to running your own LoC, I think you'll find he's more convincing as a combat monster than a caster. He has no bonuses to casting that any other generic level 2-4 wizard has, and the two lores he can pick are either mediocre (Tizz) or generally require miscasting to slam out big spells (Metal).

Burning chariots are actually quite good, I've run two in most all of my 2000+ games. It's only very recently that I'm setting the pair aside to build a second grinder, because I want more combat power to work with the large horror blocks I run - most DoC armies that have horrors run them as min/max 10 horror units, which aren't going to stick around and allow counter-charge opportunities like mine do. Anyway, burning chariots are a bit fragile and gimpy for a chariot, and their SD6 flame cannon shot tends to be garbage, but the SD6+3 grapeshot attak is superb for blasting off single targets and small tough units. When you have two of them you can pretty effectively remove some seriously nasty stuff - WoC DP for example

I'm thinking about stealing your 1800 list:

Herald of Tzeentch - level 2 (METAL), greater gift
Herald of Tzeentch - level 2 (TIZZ), BSB
25 Horrors - full command (gleaming pennant)
25 Horrors - full command
6 Flamers - pyrocaster
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
Soul Grinder of Tzeentch - daemonbone claw

Thanks for the help!

Glad you like One change I'd make is to drop the pyrocaster and swap the gleaming pennant to a lichebone pennant or standard of discipline. This way the standard actually does something (gp is redundant with BSB in the list) - I had the pyro in there because the tournament gave scenario advantages to having champions. I'd also probably take the exalted locus on the BSB instead of the greater gift on the general. The gift never rolled up anything I really wanted, while the exalted locus is always helpful with the random ass nature of Tizz magicks.

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:
He has no bonuses to casting that any other generic level 2-4 wizard has, and the two lores he can pick are either mediocre (Tizz) or generally require miscasting to slam out big spells (Metal).

I'm not a daemon player, so maybe my experiences aren't transferable. With a level 4 DE sorc with no other casting bonuses, and no specific miscast protection (no ward vs miscast), I've been pretty successful with metal. You can pretty reliably 4 dice final trans, +1 to hit seems useful for flamers, and searing doom inflicts flaming hits, so if the rest of your army grants regen to a unit with an armor save, you can sear it away.

I ... will give you that. I suppose the LoC's magical power simply comes from having a level higher than 2? I actually am a big fan of Metal as a lore, but being thus far limited to level 2 casters, I've found the only spells I'm allowed to cast are searing doom or final trans cooked off with IF. +1 to hit with flamers or +2 armor on the grinder would be awesome ... but are a hard sell when you have limited dice and a meager +2 to cast.

I guess part of my sour grapes over the LoC is the smorgasbord of magic-related gifts they could take in the last book. Loremastery and power vortexes and so on. And now ... if you pay 70 more points he's a level 4. That can still be fragged by 1 cannon (vs the DE sorcerer who can shelter in a unit, and stab them for extra dice, and blow them up with miscasts, etc.)

Blah, blah, god of magic is actually not too impressive at magic, blah, blah

- Salvage