Switch Theme:

Fortifications, worth the points value, or just scenery?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in ca
Furious Fire Dragon





Since it is Christmas time I'm looking at purchases some more terrain, fortifications and debris to make my table actually more taticle than just run into the Imperial Defence Network and was wondering if the fortifications were any good to fit in a smallish army (1500-2500) or should I invest in buying buildings or use the fortifications as capturable scenery?
   
Made in at
Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren





For squishy gunline armies like Imperial Guard and to an extent Tau, at least the ADL is a must.

When you play on a table you cant rely on getting adequate amounts of cover and if you do, you either have to get there after deployment, or you can start behind it but have terrible LoS.

The ADL is IMO worth it for such armies. And the quadgun is always a nice tool to fall back on.

2000 l 2000 l 2000 l 1500 l 1000 l 1000 l Blood Ravens (using Ravenguard CT) 1500 l 1500 l
Eldar tactica l Black Templars tactica l Tau tactica l Astra Militarum codex summary l 7th ed summary l Tutorial: Hinged Land Raider doors (easy!) l My blog: High Gothic Musings
 Ravenous D wrote:
40K is like a beloved grandparent that is slowly falling into dementia and the rest of the family is in denial about how bad it is.
squidhills wrote:
GW is scared of girls. Why do you think they have so much trouble sculpting attractive female models? Because girls have cooties and the staff at GW don't like looking at them for too long because it makes them feel funny in their naughty place.
 
   
Made in ca
Furious Fire Dragon





 Sir Arun wrote:
For squishy gunline armies like Imperial Guard and to an extent Tau, at least the ADL is a must.

When you play on a table you cant rely on getting adequate amounts of cover and if you do, you either have to get there after deployment, or you can start behind it but have terrible LoS.

The ADL is IMO worth it for such armies. And the quadgun is always a nice tool to fall back on.


Yeah, I have heard a lot of good things about the ADL, but my main force is going to be Daemons until I get CSM, so it's fairly pointless since all my people will be deepstriking or have scout. What about these buildings that give bonuses for being inside them (in the back of the rulebook) or the one with guns on them, worth it to get them? It's hard to see the pricetag for a single building and buy it, since I would need like, 5-6 buildings i think.
   
Made in nz
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout




In ur base, killin ur d00dz

Try making up some of your own, proxy it and see if it works and if you want to, then go and buy it or just keep using the stuff you made.
   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

I've had very positive experiences with fortifications. Like any unit, you need to know how to use them, and they need to synergize with your army, but you can get a lot of mileage from a building or two.

Welcome to the Freakshow!

(Leadership-shenanigans for Eldar of all types.) 
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight



In Warp Transit to next battlefield location, Destination Unknown

I like to use Legos for my battlefield terrain. Just sayin'.

Cowards will be shot! Survivors will be shot again!

 
   
Made in ca
Furious Fire Dragon





I don't have the time to build my own and I have tried Lego terrain... it really breaks immersion.
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





 cosmicsoybean wrote:
I don't have the time to build my own and I have tried Lego terrain... it really breaks immersion.


I haven't try Legos, but they sound like they'd really block me from having a serious game.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka






 kingbobbito wrote:
 cosmicsoybean wrote:
I don't have the time to build my own and I have tried Lego terrain... it really breaks immersion.


I haven't try Legos, but they sound like they'd really block me from having a serious game.


+1! Warhammer 40k, Minecraft Edition.

By the way, Skyshield can also be very useful. You can deepstrike from it without scatter (when it's open) or use it to give units on it a 4+ invulnerable save (when it's closed).

Also, remember: Fortifications can be deployed anywhere on your half of the table (not just in your deployment zone). You can even position it so that you can deploy units onto it, have part of it hanging out of your deployment zone.
   
Made in ca
Furious Fire Dragon





Didn't know about that 1/2 board thing, that might make those more useful! Does the inv save stack? If so my daemons will be some happy little mutants!
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Make a long bunker, so that part of it are in your deployment and the rest is at max range. Give it the escape hatch, enjoy foot units out speeding screamers with their uber move turn 1.
   
Made in us
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





tornado alley, United States

You can do some nasty things with the Vengeance Weapon Battery or the Firestorm Redoubt...depends on what you run and who you're playing against.

~6000 ~4000 ~1000
Imperial Knights: & Admech:

My finance plays

DR:70+S+G+M++B+I+Pw40k14++D+A++/sWD409R+++T(M)DM+

I do not work for GW in any fashion. When I edit my post, either I've misspelled something, punctuation, or I'm fixing swearing. Oops.  
   
Made in gb
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster




Behind you

 Schlyne wrote:
You can do some nasty things with the Vengeance Weapon Battery or the Firestorm Redoubt...depends on what you run and who you're playing against.
But at bs 2 they suck and I tried running vengeance battle cannons missed every time. Same with firestorm better off with bastions or bunkers with quad or laz.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Orlando

Whatever you do, don't go overboard. Fortifications have their uses but relying on them to win the game for you is doomed to fail. My last opponent tried this thinking he was facing my drop pod army(he didn't ask, I would have told him) and instead I was giving my wraith elder army its first try. Do not fill your half the board with forts. The usefulness of cheap ADLs and a bastion or two is great, I wouldn't go any more overboard than this except in the case of the escape hatch. Figure out your plan of attack and how you plan to get there and place your walls and fire support accordingly. In my fight he really wanted to play a lot of forts and gave me an extra 500ish points over and above my 2500 just in forts while he filled his entire deployment zone. The middle of the board was clear so I anticipated where I wanted my stuff to move to and placed lots of ADLs out in no mans land. Anyone not a ranger or wraith got their butts kicked but my spiders did survive a bit longer trying to cross the board. This is probably a bit more absurd of a deployment than what most people will ever see, but past a small amount of combat multiplier, forts decrease army efficiency in large amounts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Whatever you do, don't go overboard. Fortifications have their uses but relying on them to win the game for you is doomed to fail. My last opponent tried this thinking he was facing my drop pod army(he didn't ask, I would have told him) and instead I was giving my wraith elder army its first try. Do not fill your half the board with forts. The usefulness of cheap ADLs and a bastion or two is great, I wouldn't go any more overboard than this except in the case of the escape hatch. Figure out your plan of attack and how you plan to get there and place your walls and fire support accordingly. In my fight he really wanted to play a lot of forts and gave me an extra 500ish points over and above my 2500 just in forts while he filled his entire deployment zone. The middle of the board was clear so I anticipated where I wanted my stuff to move to and placed lots of ADLs out in no mans land. Anyone not a ranger or wraith got their butts kicked but my spiders did survive a bit longer trying to cross the board. This is probably a bit more absurd of a deployment than what most people will ever see, but past a small amount of combat multiplier, forts decrease army efficiency in large amounts.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/19 13:30:54


Infantrymen do not die, they go to heaven and regroup. 
   
Made in ca
Furious Fire Dragon





I wish knew what the fortifications were and what upgrades they could have instead of needing to buy a 40-60$ book to even check them out.
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






The actual fortifications seem to have been covered so I will add in a few other things...
1. Foamboard buildings. I've had success with using the printoff template and making buildings out of it. A little lightweight and non-durable for my taste but servicable.
2. Dust tactics tenements- I'm finding these to be simply amazing. fully moduler to build and easily modified/added to to be imperial or whatever. they are designed to be full sided and you reach down through the middle. but if you leave them open backed and convert in full floors, you can counts as the rear having windows or being no openings. With these, you can get away from ruined building corners and have full "normal" buildings.

I'm sure the other brands and variations are also good These too can add to the tactics and "feel" of a game without having to have emplaced guns or special rules.

clively wrote:
"EVIL INC" - hardly. More like "REASONABLE GOOD GUY INC". (side note: exalted)

Seems a few of you have not read this... http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka






 cosmicsoybean wrote:
I wish knew what the fortifications were and what upgrades they could have instead of needing to buy a 40-60$ book to even check them out.


The actual book that covers fortifications, as referenced by BRB is Stronghold Assault.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/Stronghold-Assault.html

It's $26 USD, and is actually a good value for its price. There is only a little bit of fluff, after which there is information comparable to a codex, except, of course, for fortifications.

You get all the Fortification units, along with point values, for GW models (for instance, rules for Aegis Defense Line, Skyshield, Aquila, Fortress of Redemption, Wall of Martyrs, etc.). There are rules for creating a defense network, definitions for the apocalypse size guns, plus deployment rules and 3 siege missions (bunker assault, breakthrough, and last stand). Also, Force Organization Charts for siege missions (attacker vs defender).

It is quite interesting and adds a whole new dimension to the game, in my opinion.

Plus, in terms of dollars per square inch on a game table, fortification pieces are very cheap as models. For example, a Skyshield is very large playable model for a $50 piece / 75 point fortification.
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




Always take a ADL and i like to rock a quad gun just to mess things up especially against an elite army with not many figures in it

Imperial Guard 1500 Pts
Dark Son's 1000 Pts 
   
Made in ca
Furious Fire Dragon





 EVIL INC wrote:
The actual fortifications seem to have been covered so I will add in a few other things...
1. Foamboard buildings. I've had success with using the printoff template and making buildings out of it. A little lightweight and non-durable for my taste but servicable.
2. Dust tactics tenements- I'm finding these to be simply amazing. fully moduler to build and easily modified/added to to be imperial or whatever. they are designed to be full sided and you reach down through the middle. but if you leave them open backed and convert in full floors, you can counts as the rear having windows or being no openings. With these, you can get away from ruined building corners and have full "normal" buildings.

I'm sure the other brands and variations are also good These too can add to the tactics and "feel" of a game without having to have emplaced guns or special rules.


Do you know where I can get some? Any hobby stuff I see is CRAZY expensive, or the shipping to Canada destroys any savings I would get.
For example (cheapest shipping they had) http://i.imgur.com/a7wBmJR.png

Anyways the stronghold book might be worth the pickup since their are missions and formations in it as well, Im kind of getting tired of the same game type time after time
   
Made in at
Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren





try ebay

2000 l 2000 l 2000 l 1500 l 1000 l 1000 l Blood Ravens (using Ravenguard CT) 1500 l 1500 l
Eldar tactica l Black Templars tactica l Tau tactica l Astra Militarum codex summary l 7th ed summary l Tutorial: Hinged Land Raider doors (easy!) l My blog: High Gothic Musings
 Ravenous D wrote:
40K is like a beloved grandparent that is slowly falling into dementia and the rest of the family is in denial about how bad it is.
squidhills wrote:
GW is scared of girls. Why do you think they have so much trouble sculpting attractive female models? Because girls have cooties and the staff at GW don't like looking at them for too long because it makes them feel funny in their naughty place.
 
   
Made in ca
Furious Fire Dragon





Ebay for Canadians is garbage. The prices are almost 1:1 and the shipping, again, takes from any discounts I would have gotten.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I hear Bastions are surprisingly decent for Daemons, depending on which troops you pick.
   
Made in ca
Furious Fire Dragon





Yeah 5+ ballistic skill to man the guns would be very nice. Biggest problem I have currently is daemons are my main force (maybe CSM later on) so I have some major shortages on shooting. a Bastion might help... not sure if it would be worth it when there are dedicated structures for guns
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I find Skyfire vengeance batteries do okayish, in that they fire four twin linked lascannons per turn and thus aren't a complete waste when flyers don't show and intercept when they do.

Not really something astonishing though. Maybe try them in fancy gattling gun mode as area denial instead?

One handy thing about Vengeance Batteries is that if you deploy them next to two objectives, they'll passively hold them until destroyed, even if they lose their gun.
   
Made in gb
Humorless Arbite





Hull

I love my Fortress of Redemption.
I run it covered in void shields with an escape hatch and all the weapon upgrades (4x Heavy Bolters and Krakstorm). I also have some variety of barbed wire + barricades.

In total it costs me around 450 pts (can't quite remember without going on Battlescribe but CBA atm ).

It's the centre-piece of my army and I absolutely adore it. Sure it's not that great and isn't that good at protecting your stuff but the entire game changes when you bring it and it's more fun. It's super-rare too so others generally like facing it as well (considering it's actually quite under-powered for the points cost to boot).

   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka






 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Ebay for Canadians is garbage. The prices are almost 1:1 and the shipping, again, takes from any discounts I would have gotten.


Frankly, Ebay for Canadians is more expensive than a decent discount FLGS in Canada hehehehe
   
Made in ca
Furious Fire Dragon





Talys wrote:
 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Ebay for Canadians is garbage. The prices are almost 1:1 and the shipping, again, takes from any discounts I would have gotten.


Frankly, Ebay for Canadians is more expensive than a decent discount FLGS in Canada hehehehe

And around me, the LGS prices are the same as GW's online store anyway
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka






 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Talys wrote:
 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Ebay for Canadians is garbage. The prices are almost 1:1 and the shipping, again, takes from any discounts I would have gotten.


Frankly, Ebay for Canadians is more expensive than a decent discount FLGS in Canada hehehehe

And around me, the LGS prices are the same as GW's online store anyway


Wow, that blows. Make sure your LGS doesn't have some kind of gaming group discount, or hobby group discount. In the Vancouver area, 15% - 25% is not uncommon, and 30% or maybe even a bit better can be had on large purchases or if you haggle a bit.
   
Made in ca
Furious Fire Dragon





I would looove that. Right now I can rarely even get there, never yet played at the store, but play vs my 2 friends. I would be so happy if I could save 25% on my purchases, I would buy an entire CSM army RIGHT now lol
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka






It makes a huge difference, for sure.

What sucks is that in Europe, you can get deals like that online, but in North America, it's in-store-only (or email/mail order.. but not webstore).
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: