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Ever had one of those times in your life where you despise having a digital copy of the rulebook? Today was one of those days. I played two 1500 point games. One against new Blood Angels, the second against Tau. While the people I played against I know pretty well, having been playing at the shop for over a year now, and one of them being my brother in law, I never get too worked up during our games. Except against the Blood Angel player, as he almost ALWAYS gets his rules incorrect. I don't think he does it to be malicious by any means. But he gets a bit too zealous about what he thinks is right, and I often have to correct him on things. I normally have my tablet with me to back up my calls, but today was just not my day.

Forgetting to charge the stupid thing before going to the shop, and not having my charger with me, I was forced to endure several things that made my games go from fun, to plain annoying. The first was against the Blood Angels. During the course of the game, he brought in a couple of his fliers off reserves, holding a group of Death Company and dreadnaught in one, and a second that had a Furioso and Assault Marines in the other. He goes to move his fliers at one point, and commits to his flight plan. This ends up placing his flier in an awkward spot. He cannot fully place the flier due to my Battle Wagons and my Morkanaught, as he intended to drop the Death Company down and have them assault my transports. I watched him measure, so he knew ahead of time that it was a stretch to get to where he wanted to go. I politely warned him he will wreck if he can't land, since he cannot move far enough to get passed my models, and he'd be forced to move less than 18 inches on the current path he was taking. He then goes on to try to argue that he doesn't crash and burn. I explain he will, even citing the page number for later reference, But he just gives me a look as if I'm trying to yank his chain and continues his move, this time moving his flier elsewhere.

Normally, I'm not TFG when it comes to this sort of thing. I play pretty casually, but in this instance I was so irked. Is it wrong for me to have wanted to stood by his poor play and have him remove the flier as a result of his bad move, a legitimate wreck due to his own fool hardy approach even after a friendly warning?

The second was against the Tau player. As to be expected, he brought his Riptide. Nothing against facing one, but I've yet to face him without his. So I did expect it to make an appearance. Come to find out, he was playing unbound. I didn't know this before hand, as we had planned the battle a few days prior, as I had with the BA player. The list he brought wasn't bad, more just for fun. It was mostly drones, a couple of commander suit things, the Riptide, a squad of Kroot, a Devilfish with Fire Warriors and a Piranha. The game was going in my favor as the objectives I drew allowed me to get to things easy and without too much opposition. Surprisingly, the Riptide was having one Hell of a time trying to kill my Morkanaught. His gattler couldn't do much and his rockets and things kept just bouncing off. In fact, the only HP lost was due to my own Gets Hot! on the Kustom Mega Kannon.

Well, as we got to turn 4, he tries again with the Riptide to wittle my Naught down a bit. He scores a single Rending hit with the gattler, and he tells me it resolves at AP2. I didn't think that sounded right, and off the top of my head, I thought Rending just gave a couple extra hits. He swore it was resolved at AP2, and rolled for it as such. Well, go figure. That one hit all game caused the Naught to blow up. Despite winning the game by a landslide of 8 to 2 VP, I had a bad taste in my mouth for the rest of the night. I knew the rule was wrong, yet they assume since I'm newer to the game then them, I must be incorrect.

Well, I go home and charge my tablet. And lo and behold. I was right. Big shock. Though in fairness to my brother in law, the Rending rule he was using was right...on infantry. The second bit is he gets D3 extra to hit rolls on a Rending hit to vehicles, resolved at AP of the weapon.

What about you guys? Ever had a moment where the rulebook could have saved you from a sour experience? All this does now is force me to buy a small book from someone so I don't let them bend me over a table again.

I find electronic books good for reading novels and rubbish for anything else that involves pictures, maps, flipping to an index, looking up different pages and so on. That is on a Kindle. A really well designed ebook on a large screen reader would be better.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I find electronic books good for reading novels and rubbish for anything else that involves pictures, maps, flipping to an index, looking up different pages and so on. That is on a Kindle. A really well designed ebook on a large screen reader would be better.

Yeah...I'm a tech lover, but I'll be damned. I much rather be holding a book when it comes to this sort of stuff. Easy to mark needed pages with a sticky note, easy to flip through, no tech BS. x.x I'm definitely getting a physical book within the next month, or before my next game. WHichever comes first.

Post-its and dog-ears >> electronic bookmarks!

Talys wrote:
Post-its and dog-ears >> electronic bookmarks!

Yep :p Even with electronic bookmarks, they are inferior. Pressing a button to turn the screen back on (As leaving it on can kill battery life super quick), then going to the menu to get to the book marks, pressing the book mark and having the page load is still longer and more incontinent than opening the book to the posted page. And books don't run out of batteries. I should have just gotten the damn book to begin with. :I The e version has been nothing but trouble. Not to mention that when someone can cite a page, it isn't even the same as my eversion's page.

I prefer e books for things like novels but for rule books I prefer physical copies. I have a rule book and codex in the box I use to transport all my tanks and drop pods so I won't forget it.

I find the interactive e-versions so much better. I may not go back. The regular e-books, though, are swill on a stick.

 Jimsolo wrote:
I find the interactive e-versions so much better. I may not go back. The regular e-books, though, are swill on a stick.

Really? Good to know. The only thing I ever bought interactive was a painting guide. I've never bought a codex as an interactive.

Part of the thing though, is, I want to use it on a Surface, not an iPad :\

Yakface did a review on the first e-codex a couple of years ago. He thought it was pretty good with a few missed opportunities. IDK if the missed opportunities have been improved on since then. Probably they have.

The thing is now that the rules ecosystem is such a quagmire of different codexes, dataslates, campaign books and so on, cross-referencing between all the files in a directory full of e-books is a lot harder than just photocopying the pages you need and putting them in a binder.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Yakface did a review on the first e-codex a couple of years ago. He thought it was pretty good with a few missed opportunities. IDK if the missed opportunities have been improved on since then. Probably they have.

The thing is now that the rules ecosystem is such a quagmire of different codexes, dataslates, campaign books and so on, cross-referencing between all the files in a directory full of e-books is a lot harder than just photocopying the pages you need and putting them in a binder.

Truth. That's what I'd like to have the most, and I may end up doing is just print off the special rules pages, to hit/to wound/vehicle damage pages, and various codex entries of the other armies so I have those for quick reference in binder format.

Melevolence wrote:

Well, as we got to turn 4, he tries again with the Riptide to wittle my Naught down a bit. He scores a single Rending hit with the gattler, and he tells me it resolves at AP2. I didn't think that sounded right, and off the top of my head, I thought Rending just gave a couple extra hits. He swore it was resolved at AP2, and rolled for it as such. Well, go figure.

He was right about these though, presuming he rolled sixes to wound to get the Rending effect.

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

Well, as we got to turn 4, he tries again with the Riptide to wittle my Naught down a bit. He scores a single Rending hit with the gattler, and he tells me it resolves at AP2. I didn't think that sounded right, and off the top of my head, I thought Rending just gave a couple extra hits. He swore it was resolved at AP2, and rolled for it as such. Well, go figure.

He was right about these though, presuming he rolled sixes to wound to get the Rending effect.

But, against vehicles (and I'm presuming that "naught" refers to a 'dreadnought'), Rending just adds d3 to armour penetration - it isn't resolved at AP2.

I have digital everything for reasons. Digital codexes for all four of my armies, dataslates, my opponent's codex blah blah blah and I am looking forward SO much to having the mini Deathstorm rulebook after the holidays. But, I also share the workload between a modern iPad and an original that has a longer battery life but slower page turning. It's not terrible if you can remember your charger. Do have to say, PDF scrolling is better than ePub will ever be. Convert if you can.

Small rule books are $25 on ebay. Just throwing it out there.

I am so glad that I keep to the real print books. Ebooks suck!

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

Well, as we got to turn 4, he tries again with the Riptide to wittle my Naught down a bit. He scores a single Rending hit with the gattler, and he tells me it resolves at AP2. I didn't think that sounded right, and off the top of my head, I thought Rending just gave a couple extra hits. He swore it was resolved at AP2, and rolled for it as such. Well, go figure.

He was right about these though, presuming he rolled sixes to wound to get the Rending effect.

I stated he was partially correct. Rending would give him an Ap2 hit against INFANTRY. But he was using Rending on my Morkanaught, which is a vehicle. It wouldn't get resolved at AP2. He instead gets D3 more hits, resolved at the AP of his weapon, which wouldn't matter because his gun wasn't even strong enough to glance the Naught, he thought his Rending attacks would score him special hits, which it didn't.

Yeah, the interactive codices are much better. You just need to go to the character in the datasheet, and it has all these links that run down everything about the character.

So how come your opponents didn't have a rule book? Shouldn't both parties have one? It's understandable your iPad or tablet or what not ran out of power, crap happens, but shouldn't both of your opponents have a copy of the rules as well, in what ever format?

Davor wrote:
So how come your opponents didn't have a rule book? Shouldn't both parties have one? It's understandable your iPad or tablet or what not ran out of power, crap happens, but shouldn't both of your opponents have a copy of the rules as well, in what ever format?

They should, yes. But the cost of the rulebook is pretty gross. I'm glad the 7th small books are now circulating better and the prices are reasonable. I plan on snagging one of those within the next week or so. Save myself some trouble.

Understandable. Very pricy to keep buying books all the time.

I bought the 7th edition rulebook on my kindle because it was cheaper then the regular rulebook. I had a tournament come up where you automatically forfeit the game if you don't have your rulebook. It was the worst decision ever made.

Davor wrote:So how come your opponents didn't have a rule book? Shouldn't both parties have one? It's understandable your iPad or tablet or what not ran out of power, crap happens, but shouldn't both of your opponents have a copy of the rules as well, in what ever format?

Yeah, for sure, but I wouldn't flip out if someone only had a ebook version, and they couldn't open it :X Even if they didn't bring one... I'd just say, "Here, you can share mine." No? I think all the stores I frequent have a store copy that can be referenced, too.

Mr.bacon wrote:I bought the 7th edition rulebook on my kindle because it was cheaper then the regular rulebook. I had a tournament come up where you automatically forfeit the game if you don't have your rulebook. It was the worst decision ever made.

So harsh :\ The ebook versions should be totally legitimate, as they are marketed and sold as alternatives to the paper versions. I still think the paper versions are way, way better (except the weight, obviously), but *shrug* I don't get someone getting upset because their opponent has a kindle or galaxy version of the rules.

Printed books all the way. The ebooks and ibooks are okay but with all the hassle involved... nope. Also GW is often late when updating the digital versions. And occasionally they contain errors which were not in the printed material - making the books + errata the only reliable source for the rules. Anyone remember the debacle of SoB when 7th ed arrived? Blood Angels? Chaos Space Marines Interactive Edition?

Ignore me, I'm being thick, I found the digital copy on the gw website...

Melevolence wrote:

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

Well, as we got to turn 4, he tries again with the Riptide to wittle my Naught down a bit. He scores a single Rending hit with the gattler, and he tells me it resolves at AP2. I didn't think that sounded right, and off the top of my head, I thought Rending just gave a couple extra hits. He swore it was resolved at AP2, and rolled for it as such. Well, go figure.

He was right about these though, presuming he rolled sixes to wound to get the Rending effect.

I stated he was partially correct. Rending would give him an Ap2 hit against INFANTRY. But he was using Rending on my Morkanaught, which is a vehicle. It wouldn't get resolved at AP2. He instead gets D3 more hits, resolved at the AP of his weapon, which wouldn't matter because his gun wasn't even strong enough to glance the Naught, he thought his Rending attacks would score him special hits, which it didn't.

Nope. He adds a further d3 to his roll to pen (so it's S+6+d3). Nothing to do with hits at all.

MarsNZ wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

Well, as we got to turn 4, he tries again with the Riptide to wittle my Naught down a bit. He scores a single Rending hit with the gattler, and he tells me it resolves at AP2. I didn't think that sounded right, and off the top of my head, I thought Rending just gave a couple extra hits. He swore it was resolved at AP2, and rolled for it as such. Well, go figure.

He was right about these though, presuming he rolled sixes to wound to get the Rending effect.

I stated he was partially correct. Rending would give him an Ap2 hit against INFANTRY. But he was using Rending on my Morkanaught, which is a vehicle. It wouldn't get resolved at AP2. He instead gets D3 more hits, resolved at the AP of his weapon, which wouldn't matter because his gun wasn't even strong enough to glance the Naught, he thought his Rending attacks would score him special hits, which it didn't.

Nope. He adds a further d3 to his roll to pen (so it's S+6+d3). Nothing to do with hits at all.

Bingo! Somebody got rending finally right.

Warhams-77 wrote:
Printed books all the way. The ebooks and ibooks are okay but with all the hassle involved... nope. Also GW is often late when updating the digital versions. And occasionally they contain errors which were not in the printed material - making the books + errata the only reliable source for the rules. Anyone remember the debacle of SoB when 7th ed arrived? Blood Angels? Chaos Space Marines Interactive Edition?

Uhm, how about the printed North American version of the CSM book? The Helbrute was priced at 105 points and I believe the e-verison was 100 points. Guess what the e-version was correct and the printed version wasn't. So that is not true that the printed version is always the correct version. Mistakes are made in any version of the rules.

Warhams-77 wrote:
Printed books all the way. The ebooks and ibooks are okay but with all the hassle involved... nope. Also GW is often late when updating the digital versions. And occasionally they contain errors which were not in the printed material - making the books + errata the only reliable source for the rules. Anyone remember the debacle of SoB when 7th ed arrived? Blood Angels? Chaos Space Marines Interactive Edition?

I prefer the printed books. However, I don't believe this to be a legitimate reason to dislike the eBooks. The Games Workshop Errata page says:

These documents bring the print editions up to date with any recent rules or amends to their digital edition. Where a book does not have a Rules Errata document, none have yet been issued.

This means that the most recent rules are in the digital edition. Of course, it is possible that the most recent update is made in error. In that case, though, the Errata would also contain an error, meaning Printed + Errata would have the same problem.

My fiance has the interactive ibook chaos daemon codex and I like it. However, I only have a Note so I'm stuck with epub if I want digital rules and epub is just awful.

Tournaments don't allow digital rules because people will try to modify things in the rules and cheat. One bad apple ruined it for the rest of us.