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I'm trying to find a tank heavy list where I can incorporate Tigers, and Panthers.

Anything out there like that? Where do I look?

I didn't find anything in the Forces of war but that's too new.

Tank-heavy with Panthers and Tigers is a practical impossibility; unless you just want the option for both as opposed to running both in the same list?

Do you want Tigers (Tiger 1s or King Tigers?) and Panthers in the same list? Or lists with Tigers, and lists with Panthers?

Remagen- Kings, Tiger1s, and Panthers
Devil's Charge- Panthers and Kings

Remagen SchwerePanzers gets you 1320pts for 2 King Tigers, 2 Tiger1s, and 2 Panthers; all RV.

AndrasOtto wrote:
Do you want Tigers (Tiger 1s or King Tigers?) and Panthers in the same list? Or lists with Tigers, and lists with Panthers?

Remagen- Kings, Tiger1s, and Panthers
Devil's Charge- Panthers and Kings

Remagen SchwerePanzers gets you 1320pts for 2 King Tigers, 2 Tiger1s, and 2 Panthers; all RV.

I'll have to take a look at Remagen.

I have Devils charge. I do like the peiper kampfgruppe but not a big fan of fearless trained

What do you class as 'tank-heavy', johnny? Personally, I'd say 6 tanks spread over 3 platoons is far from that, and with the AT15 of British 17pdrs, AT14 of US Pershings and Jacksons, and AT16 of Cat Killer SU-100s, I can't see them lasting very long on the battlefield, and even a KT's SA8 won't hold up to flanking Challengers or Achilles, Jacksons, or a swarm of T34-85s, if they're even still around after taking company morale checks.

That said, if you just want a list like this for flavour, with peformance taking a backseat, then fair enough. The aforementioned BaR 506. has options for everything from KTs to I Es and Panthers as you know, but also Jagdpanthers or a choice of either RT or CV Jagdtigers, so there's a decent array of heavy tanks, even if the list won't necessarily be tank-heavy.

I don't know of a list where you can field tigers and panthers, but if you want a tiger heavy list, there's kampfgruppe hummel in bridge by bridge. Tiger 1's with King Tiger support available.

The panzer list in Desperate Measures gives you Panthers and Tigers in the same list. You could also go Panthers and KT.

Earlier, the Bake list in Grey Wolf gives you Panthers and Tigers.

Yeah, you probably want the Bake list.

On the opposite side of things, the Soviet IS-2 list is in Red Bear.

I would go with Bake's company out of Grey Wolf if you want to mix high quality tigers and Panthers, or Desperate Measures if you'd like to run a more ad hoc group with lower training and worn out equipment. You could also run a regular panzerkampfgruppe out of Desperate measures with Panthers in your core platoons and a platoon of Tigers backing them up.

Just realize heavy tanks are expensive and there a lot of ways to fight them these days. You'll be relying very heavily on your support in order to win as the big cats have a very specialized role.

would not be so bad if you are building a 2000 pt plus force.

If you want very late war lists take King Tigers and back them up with StuG and Pz IV's.

The Tiger and Panther armour is not enough for the toys available to the opposition. Panthers are just expensive targets, Tigers more so.

Thing is with Germans is never to get hung up on which toys to take. german lists have a very large selection of toys because the Germans diversified their industrial base. So many of them are rather cool and can be effective, and you simply cant have them all because of the points costs.

Buy your Tigers your Panthers and King Tigers, but dont expect to use them all together, in fact just give up on the concept. This way you will be more relaxed when it comes to whether you can take PanzerGerenardier, Aufklarungs, Grenardiers, a mind boggling range of SP Guns, infantry support guns, tank destoryers and assault guns, horse drawn artillery, rocket artillery, air support, wheeled Panzerspah, tracked Panzerspah, half tracked Panzerspah...... etc etc etc

You might get an itch to field Luchs, Nebelwerfers, Grille, Falkpanzer, Jagdpanthers and Sdkfz 250/16's with flame throwers, as well as Tigers, Scwimmwagens, Hetzers Beutepanzers and Stukas.

More than any other faction in the game Germans bring the toys, and most of them are awesome, you cant have them all, not by a long shot. best not to even try.

May I suggest you stick to having three different types of German heavy tank in your collection, rather than your lists.

If you want all the toys and get to field them play US instead. Individual costs are low and the variety is much more limited. My US armor list has just about all the toys commonly available, and I can fit them all in 2500pts, and most of them in 1750pts.

To make a bit of everything German list you will need a vast points total to do it, and the list wont be very good.

For Sovets and allies you can make a field army as your collection. With Germans you are really forced to just buuild a collection of toys a tiny portion of such will only ever be used at one time, because there are too many things to take, and many lists where the items simply cannot be used together even if the Wehrmacht deployed them at the same time.

 col. krazy kenny wrote:
would not be so bad if you are building a 2000 pt plus force.

Most people don't play that level though. He'd end up having to par his list down to 1500~1900pts quite a bit. It'd be like telling a Bolt Action player to build a 2,000pt list, or a 40k player to build a list with 3,000pts in mind.

There is the super cheap Panther list in Blood Guts and Glory. IIRC they are Reluctant Trained, but you can run a bunch of them because they're cheap. I don't think they have Tigers as options though.

Overall, in Flames of War combined arms are the best approach to list building. An Armor list will have the requisite command tanks, 2 platoons of armor, and then 2 platoons of infantry to back them up, most likely mechanized infantry. Then you'll have 1-2 units of artillery or other support options as well.

You're not going to run 5-7 platoons of tanks. Most lists only allow maybe 3 primary platoons and 1-2 platoons of support armor. So the most tank platoons you'll end up with is 5, 6 or 7 if you're running light tanks like Stuarts.

 Grey Templar wrote:
There is the super cheap Panther list in Blood Guts and Glory. IIRC they are Reluctant Trained, but you can run a bunch of them because they're cheap. I don't think they have Tigers as options though.

The downside with the Feldherrnhalle list is that Panthers don't have protected ammo, so that Reluctant rating is going to be more difficult to deal with as opposed to, say, the Reluctant Veteran 7th AR and Desert Rats of the British, or even the BG&G Panzerkompanie, whose Pz IV Js and StuGs both have protected ammo. Both BG&G tank lists also Always Attack, so your Reluctant Trained Panthers won't be able to sit back and shoot from concealment, either; they have to advance. The FHH list also has platoons of only 3 Panthers, whereas the Panzerkompanie allows 3-4, so if you're fine with Reluctant tanks without Protected Ammo, the Panzerkompanie allows more Panthers to be taken overall (11 from the FHH to 13 from the Pz.K.).

That said, there's no option for Tigers in any of the BG&G lists, as Grey mentioned.

True, although I think the idea with the list is that you hope your opponent doesn't have enough firepower which can crack that much AV10. And you do have SS support where skill matters a little more.

 Grey Templar wrote:
True, although I think the idea with the list is that you hope your opponent doesn't have enough firepower which can crack that much AV10. And you do have SS support where skill matters a little more.

No SS support according to Easy Army; everything those two lists get is FHH or generic Reluctant Trained, including the infantry. Opponents also don't have to crack the Panthers, either, so much as just kill enough to force a company morale check. Most LW lists have enough toys to threaten heavy armour, and since you're always attacking, everything--even other tank lists--will be able to get stationary shots off at the approaching Panthers. The AT backbone of most British lists are 17pdrs, Soviets get their SU-100s, and US get Easy-Eights, Jacksons, Bazookas out the wazoo, and artillery. All the AT needs to do is bail, and it starts the vicious cycle of trying to remount on a 5+ and usually failing, but the 17pdrs and SU-100s are more than capable of just blasting the Panthers off the board at almost one platoon per shooting step. It'd be easier if the list was Reluctant Veteran, or the Panthers had some form of pseudo-protected ammo available, but they get neither, and with the increasing amount of Late Late War books coming out, complete with nastier allied guns on better allied tanks, you can't rely on FA10 as much, either.

There's also the fact that if you draw up against a defending infantry company the most you can do is stare at them from across the board. Any Panthers that survive to make assault will find their Reluctance to be a huge hindrance, and with no BTGs--not even StuHs--and only a small handful of MGs, the enemy infantry will be laughing in their foxholes.

Back when every Soviet list didn't come with about 8 Cat Killer SU-100s, British 17pdrs were AT13, and US infantry didn't have more bazookas than men, it might've been more capable, but currently, the only players who'll really struggle are ones running old lists from old 2nd edition source books (with the exception perhaps of the revised Red Bear book).

All this said, I don't think it's what the OP's really looking for, mainly due to the lack of Tigers.